Fleury

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Re: Fleury

Postby sil on Tue May 14, 2013 11:50 am

In terms of a leash...I'm bettin' Tomas is pulled after one bad start.
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Re: Fleury

Postby AlexPKeaton on Tue May 14, 2013 12:09 pm

Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.
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Re: Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 14, 2013 12:11 pm

AlexPKeaton wrote:Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.


As they should be. Despite posting a .951 sv% in 2 starts against them this year, Fleury only has a career .898 sv% against the Sens.

In comparison, Vokoun recorded a .971 sv% in 1 start against them this year and has a career .902 sv% against them.
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Re: Fleury

Postby sil on Tue May 14, 2013 12:16 pm

tfrizz wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.


As they should be. Despite posting a .951 sv% in 2 starts against them this year, Fleury only has a career .898 sv% against the Sens.

In comparison, Vokoun recorded a .971 sv% in 1 start against them this year and has a career .902 sv% against them.


.898 vs. .902

Hmmmmmmm.
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Re: Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 14, 2013 12:19 pm

sil wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.


As they should be. Despite posting a .951 sv% in 2 starts against them this year, Fleury only has a career .898 sv% against the Sens.

In comparison, Vokoun recorded a .971 sv% in 1 start against them this year and has a career .902 sv% against them.


.898 vs. .902

Hmmmmmmm.


Yeah, a real pick your poison situation. That amounts to Vokoun stopping 4 more shots than Fleury out of every 1000 faced, or 1 in every 250. :?
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Re: Fleury

Postby RPKJr429 on Tue May 14, 2013 12:27 pm

I was in the "I want Fleury back" camp, but playing the hot(ter) hand makes sense here. Its better to have Fleury come in and play the savior so we only have one perceived head case instead of two.
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Re: Fleury

Postby jwest21 on Tue May 14, 2013 12:29 pm

RPKJr429 wrote:I was in the "I want Fleury back" camp, but playing the hot(ter) hand makes sense here. Its better to have Fleury come in and play the savior so we only have one perceived head case instead of two.

I agree with this. Vokoun hasn't done anything to lose the job but if he falters, you have to make the switch back
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Re: Fleury

Postby slappybrown on Tue May 14, 2013 12:36 pm

tfrizz wrote:
sil wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.


As they should be. Despite posting a .951 sv% in 2 starts against them this year, Fleury only has a career .898 sv% against the Sens.

In comparison, Vokoun recorded a .971 sv% in 1 start against them this year and has a career .902 sv% against them.


.898 vs. .902

Hmmmmmmm.


Yeah, a real pick your poison situation. That amounts to Vokoun stopping 4 more shots than Fleury out of every 1000 faced, or 1 in every 250. :?

I'm not really sure what relevance some of the career numbers have to the current situation. What Vokoun did against the Sens in 2006 in NSH, for example.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Crankshaft on Tue May 14, 2013 12:43 pm

Regardless of who is in net...just win, bay-bay!
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Re: Fleury

Postby tfrizz on Tue May 14, 2013 12:59 pm

slappybrown wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
sil wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.


As they should be. Despite posting a .951 sv% in 2 starts against them this year, Fleury only has a career .898 sv% against the Sens.

In comparison, Vokoun recorded a .971 sv% in 1 start against them this year and has a career .902 sv% against them.


.898 vs. .902

Hmmmmmmm.


Yeah, a real pick your poison situation. That amounts to Vokoun stopping 4 more shots than Fleury out of every 1000 faced, or 1 in every 250. :?

I'm not really sure what relevance some of the career numbers have to the current situation. What Vokoun did against the Sens in 2006 in NSH, for example.


Just provides a larger sample size than the 1 or 2 games played this season.
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Re: Fleury

Postby littlemoonboot on Tue May 14, 2013 2:57 pm

SoupOrSam wrote:However, when the dude has to think... it's pure farts.


I think this is possibly one of the greatest descriptions I've ever read in the simplest of terms.
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Re: Fleury

Postby DudeMan2766 on Tue May 14, 2013 3:24 pm

Crankshaft wrote:Regardless of who is in net...just win, bay-bay!


Vokoun to MAF - "IM THE STARTER BAY-BAY!!"

Image
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Re: Fleury

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 pm

slappybrown wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
sil wrote:
tfrizz wrote:
AlexPKeaton wrote:Reading sen fan reactions, they are mad that Fleury is not starting haha.


As they should be. Despite posting a .951 sv% in 2 starts against them this year, Fleury only has a career .898 sv% against the Sens.

In comparison, Vokoun recorded a .971 sv% in 1 start against them this year and has a career .902 sv% against them.


.898 vs. .902

Hmmmmmmm.


Yeah, a real pick your poison situation. That amounts to Vokoun stopping 4 more shots than Fleury out of every 1000 faced, or 1 in every 250. :?

I'm not really sure what relevance some of the career numbers have to the current situation. What Vokoun did against the Sens in 2006 in NSH, for example.

THAT'S WHY,
THEY PLAY,
THE GAMES!

Just win Boiz!
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Re: Fleury

Postby offsides on Tue May 14, 2013 11:55 pm

If TV keeps winning, Fleury may get a lot of rest for next season. I still think Fleury will play again, but I just want to see them win another cup and could care less who the goalie is.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Scott on Wed May 15, 2013 1:14 am

Rocco wrote:
Scott wrote:
Rocco wrote:
The problem is finding someone better than him for the regular season. At some point the Pens need to look for his successor. I imagine Shero thought he could wait to do that for a few more years but he may have to speed up the timetable.


Why? Isn't it possible to run with Fleury for the regular season and possibly have him platoon the playoffs with another goalie.

It wouldn't be the first time a professional team did something out of the ordinary. Chris Osgood in reverse.


Vancouver's been trying that the last 2 years and it hasn't worked. While there have been teams that have had to make goalie changes in the postseason and won, no one in recent memory has had a true platoon and won a Cup. Detroit switched to Osgood in 2008 and never looked back. Anaheim had to use Bryzgalov when Giguere missed time. The 1991 Pens had to play Pietrangelo when Barrasso got hurt. Other than that you have teams basically riding one goalie. While it may be possible to do what you are saying, no one has actually done it before. The problem with a platoon is there's always the chance you'll guess wrong.

I beg to differ on the Vancouver comparison. They might have tried the platoon experiment but they in no other way can be compared to the Penguins. The Canucks have made bad decisions for a long time with personnel. They have had no where near the needed offense to be anything but perfect in net. They have no room for error because they lack the offense in the playoffs. Notice how i said the Pens have the offensive fire power to over come average play in net because in a seven game series if they get steady goal tending the Pens are going to score enough win 4 of seven game.

On the Osgood thing.... Osgood has always been a fall back after thought with the Wings...oh until they need better play in net. Then they ask him. 2008 was not the only time Detroit did that. I think. I do believe Osgood in some form or another dates back to the mid 90's with the Wings. I believe he was splitting time with Mike Vernon most of that year. The wings chose to let Vernon play most of the playoff games and he won the conn smythe but they shared about equal time in the regular season.

The point to all this is that IMO it can be done. Too often people get caught up in this dire urgency to get a future hall of famer in net or you can't win the big silver prize. :roll:

Sprinkle in the fact that Byslma hockey is not going to help any goalie's numbers....the biggest need you have is a goalie who just keeps thing calm and simple. Nothing acrobatic. Just make those saves he should make. The offense takes care of the rest.
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Re: Fleury

Postby DesertPenguin on Wed May 15, 2013 2:07 am

If this is the end of the Flower, what a sad end it is. I know I like him, and he seems to be very well liked on the team as well. Sid and Flower always sit next to eachother on every flight they take. He has been with this group of players since the beginning of the Pen's resurgence.

Is that enough reason to keep him around? No. It makes me sad though.

Buying out/trading Fleury could be the answer to how you keep guys like Iginla, Murray, Morrow, Jokinen etc while re-signing Malkin and Letang. You still can't sign them all but his 5 million will help. The real worry there though is we need to have a replacement the minute we cut ties with him. Vokoun is playing well and we could go another year with him as the #1, but we better have a promising young #2 behind him because Vokoun isn't getting any younger and has been injury prone when asked to shoulder the load. The problem there, is any goalie fitting that category is either extremely expensive on the FA market or extremely expensive to trade for.

Sigh.
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Re: Fleury

Postby littlemoonboot on Wed May 15, 2013 6:25 am

You know it's bad when people are predicting the series outcome depending on whether or not Flower's playing and opposing fans hope he's the one in goal and are disappointed when it's Vokoun (who isn't just your ordinary backup.) Of course the players are going to have Flower's back in the face of public scrutiny and rightfully know they shoulder some of the blame, but I wonder how they really feel when meltdowns like Game 4 happen. I will never forget that game ever as a Pens fan, because I think that's the night the scales tipped for how I feel about Fleury and started finding myself agreeing with his critics. And that's hard when you have a lot of good memories with him but the bad ones start to outnumber the good. You still have to love him as a player and a teammate, but in the end you have to seriously question where he's at as a franchise goalie and whether or not the writing started appearing on the wall when they brought in Vokoun.

For me it's frustrating. But it also IS sad. Sigh, indeed.

Just win, Pens!
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Re: Fleury

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed May 15, 2013 7:16 am

Sat not far from Vokoun last night.
Two things happen for Vokoun success.

1) Bad bounces need to go the other way.
2) His defense does what it did last night in front of him.

Forget the first goal - as we see when teams get a chance to throw it to the front of the net from the corners, bad things usually happen. When the senators got shots in down low, Vokoun usually just went straight down to the ice. It was a miracle the puck wasn't put in - and by miracle I mean the penguins defense flattened everyone within 10 feet of the crease.

I think the Senators will have a tough time solving Vokoun if the Pens defense keeps things to the outside and flattens everyone during a scrum in front.
Last edited by DropEmJayBird on Wed May 15, 2013 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fleury

Postby columbia on Wed May 15, 2013 7:18 am

Watching him three games in a row, really hit's it home, as far as how slow Vokoun can be. :)
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Re: Fleury

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed May 15, 2013 7:19 am

columbia wrote:Watching him three games in a row, really hit's it home, as far as how slow Vokoun can be. :)


Put it this way, he is slow - but he does not leak.
If the penguins clear rebounds, protect the net - Vokoun is golden.
If they don't - it's flop into the net city.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Tico Rick on Wed May 15, 2013 8:01 am

littlemoonboot wrote:You know it's bad when people are predicting the series outcome depending on whether or not Flower's playing and opposing fans hope he's the one in goal and are disappointed when it's Vokoun (who isn't just your ordinary backup.) Of course the players are going to have Flower's back in the face of public scrutiny and rightfully know they shoulder some of the blame, but I wonder how they really feel when meltdowns like Game 4 happen. I will never forget that game ever as a Pens fan, because I think that's the night the scales tipped for how I feel about Fleury and started finding myself agreeing with his critics. And that's hard when you have a lot of good memories with him but the bad ones start to outnumber the good. You still have to love him as a player and a teammate, but in the end you have to seriously question where he's at as a franchise goalie and whether or not the writing started appearing on the wall when they brought in Vokoun


This pretty much sums up my feelings as well.
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Re: Fleury

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 15, 2013 8:03 am

Difference between Fleury and Vokoun. I watched Vokoun's net for the 5 minutes after giving up that goal and the red light didn't go back on. I was stunned.
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Re: Fleury

Postby owtahear on Wed May 15, 2013 8:17 am

Everyone likes Marc Andre Fleury as a person. He is the anti Tom Barrasso. However......the dirty little secret is....these playoff meltdowns aren't new for him. I went back to his JR career and in Willkes Barre Scranton, and MAF only had ONE season where is GAA and Save Percentage is higher in the post season than it is in the regular season. And some of those differences are significant. For most goalies, because the post season is usually much tighter played, their save percentage and GAA both improve. MAF's does the opposite. He is a head case. He is a talent, but outside of that brilliance in Game's 6 and 7 of the 2009 SCF, he melts under pressure because he overplays everything.

The only thing that could save him is a sports psychologist. But these playoff performances are not nothing new unfortunately for MAF.
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Re: Fleury

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed May 15, 2013 8:38 am

owtahear wrote:Everyone likes Marc Andre Fleury as a person. He is the anti Tom Barrasso. However......the dirty little secret is....these playoff meltdowns aren't new for him. I went back to his JR career and in Willkes Barre Scranton, and MAF only had ONE season where is GAA and Save Percentage is higher in the post season than it is in the regular season. And some of those differences are significant. For most goalies, because the post season is usually much tighter played, their save percentage and GAA both improve. MAF's does the opposite. He is a head case. He is a talent, but outside of that brilliance in Game's 6 and 7 of the 2009 SCF, he melts under pressure because he overplays everything.

The only thing that could save him is a sports psychologist. But these playoff performances are not nothing new unfortunately for MAF.

So. I'm just "spitballing" here but, is it possible that MAF might actually benefit by getting older and a tad slower (response to your valid observation that he overplays everything)?

Interesting thought.
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Re: Fleury

Postby pfim on Wed May 15, 2013 8:39 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:Sat not far from Vokoun last night.
Two things happen for Vokoun success.

1) Bad bounces need to go the other way.
2) His defense does what it did last night in front of him.

Forget the first goal - as we see when teams get a chance to throw it to the front of the net from the corners, bad things usually happen. When the senators got shots in down low, Vokoun usually just went straight down to the ice. It was a miracle the puck wasn't put in - and by miracle I mean the penguins defense flattened everyone within 10 feet of the crease.

I think the Senators will have a tough time solving Vokoun if the Pens defense keeps things to the outside and flattens everyone during a scrum in front.


His rebound control was poop last night. Hopefully it improves, putting a lot of pressure on the D and himself. There were times when the wings had to come back and clean up the mess, and all 5 skaters were below the dots.
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