Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

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Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed May 29, 2013 6:22 am

Obviously the stats don't lie,

An .884 save percentage against the penguins. A total meltdown. Obviously his defense lost confidence in him and because of that they couldn't play well in front of him. Too many soft goals like the Malkin breakaway, and the Neal toe drag shot... eventually you have to wonder if the defense of Ottawa would have been better off just having a garbage can in net. Craig Anderson is a headcase - a playoff choker - and should be bought out or traded by Ottawa this offseason. If the team loses confidence in you - obviously they can't play well on the ice.

Yes, that's dripping with sarcasm - but it's something a Penguin fan might say in Ottawa right now. Ottawa had no offense, and defensively broke down - and their goalie looked bad because of it.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 29, 2013 7:42 am

As soon as I saw who posted this thread, I knew it would be about Fleury. Despite the fact that its a serious defense of Fleury, its still good comedy. Actually, I think that makes it more funny.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby RxBandit66 on Wed May 29, 2013 9:49 am

THe humor is appreciated and it is quite funny, but on a serious note, Anderson blew up against one of the highest scoring teams (so far) in NHL playoff history. Fleury's implosion happened when the Pens were playing lower seeded and far inferior teams.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed May 29, 2013 11:03 am

1.i didn't mention fleury at all.
2. The islanders were no offensive slouch, I contend the penguins defense imploded, as did the sens.

Couple of other things
-going to vokoun was the right move, team needed a wake up call.
-staying with vokoun is the right move, team is winning.
-fleury would have won the sens series in 4 or 5 games, team played that well.
-vokoun would not have fared much better on games 2-4 against isles, team played that badly
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby meow on Wed May 29, 2013 11:09 am

:thumb:
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed May 29, 2013 11:17 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:1.i didn't mention fleury at all.


lulz
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Wed May 29, 2013 11:28 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
DropEmJayBird wrote:1.i didn't mention fleury at all.


lulz

yea, you got me, I did mention Pittsburgh fans - and I can see how my sarcastic hypothetical could be seen as a Fleury thing.

Reasonable people can disagree, it's nothing personal. I like Vokoun - but I'm in the never too high/never too low camp. It's obvious to me the team is playing well in front of him on top of the fact that Ottawa was offensivly pathetic even before the series started. I have no doubt MAF would have won that series in 4 or 5 and put up big numbers as well. As it is - staying with Vokoun is still the right move because there is no reason to change when your winning. That being said - for a team as inept as Ottawa was offensivly - Vokoun looked a bit shaky at times, and certainly utilized the penguins defensive efforts in front of his net. In the end though - the wins count - and he did more than needed to win the games.

I think comparing Ottawa's recent defensive performance and the subsequent result to the stat line of what some would have considered one of the top goalies in the world this year, is a perfect comparison to make to the Penguins defensive breakdowns in games 2 through 4 and the perception Penguin fans of have their goalie. Anderson made some nice saves, but it's the bad bounce goals you remember and pile on to the nearly unstoppable goals the penguins offense put on the board.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Troy Loney on Wed May 29, 2013 11:29 am

DropEmJayBird wrote:1.i didn't mention fleury at all.
2. The islanders were no offensive slouch, I contend the penguins defense imploded, as did the sens.

Couple of other things
-going to vokoun was the right move, team needed a wake up call.
-staying with vokoun is the right move, team is winning.
-fleury would have won the sens series in 4 or 5 games, team played that well.
-vokoun would not have fared much better on games 2-4 against isles, team played that badly



Sounds like you've developed some full proof reasoning that allows you to make a ridiculous argument. So basically Fleury would have won all the games Vokoun won and Vokoun would have lost all the games Fleury lost. I'd rather just look at things like wins and losses, GAA, save percentage....makes things sound a lot less subjective.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby pcm on Wed May 29, 2013 11:59 am

He's arguing against the crowd who thinks Fleury is a bad goalie, who've gone overthetop and pinned all the Pen's playoff failures the past few years on him, simply because the team started to play better when Blsyma benched him and played Vokoun.

Those people only see what's in front of them.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby RxBandit66 on Wed May 29, 2013 12:36 pm

Fleury has had a great career and has won a Cup. He's proven himself and he's one of the better goaltenders in the NHL. However, in the playoffs, you start the hot goaltender who gives you the best chance to win at that moment. It does not matter who that happens to be. If the hot hand at the moment is Eddie Johnston and he gives you the best chance to win a best of 7, suit him up.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Sarcastic on Wed May 29, 2013 1:04 pm

So Jay is saying that Ottawa didn't play well defensively and that's why we scored so many goals? How about that fact we're deep and awesome offensively instead?

Jay, I don't understand why it bothers you so much and why you keep trying to convince the entire board of your support for Fleury.

btw, your initial post was 100% about Fleury.

Just let it go, man...
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Henry Hank on Wed May 29, 2013 1:12 pm

Dumb post. Pens fans didn't give up on Fleury because of one bad series in which his team was overmatched. Pens fans have given up on him after four straight years of substandard postseason play against lower seeded teams.

This is essentially the "it's just one game!" argument. Reasonable people don't jump to conclusions based on one occurrence. When things become a pattern, that's when you get concerned. Fleury's playoff duds have become the norm. Has he been the only problem, no, but he's been a big one and a correctable one as we've seen since Vokoun replaced him.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Troy Loney on Wed May 29, 2013 1:29 pm

Well....I pretty much gave up on him after that terrible Montreal series....aside from being great during the no crosby/no malkin season, he's done nothing to deter that skepticism.

But I fully admit that it was baseless at the time and based mostly on frustration. Just saying that his performance against Montreal was awful and I personally don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt he still gets. ESPECIALLY this year as Vokoun has walked in and has shown this team just needed competent goaltending to advance on in the playoffs.
Last edited by Troy Loney on Wed May 29, 2013 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby brwi on Wed May 29, 2013 1:32 pm

Henry Hank wrote:Dumb post. Pens fans didn't give up on Fleury because of one bad series in which his team was overmatched. Pens fans have given up on him after four straight years of substandard postseason play against lower seeded teams.

This is essentially the "it's just one game!" argument. Reasonable people don't jump to conclusions based on one occurrence. When things become a pattern, that's when you get concerned. Fleury's playoff duds have become the norm. Has he been the only problem, no, but he's been a big one and a correctable one as we've seen since Vokoun replaced him.


:thumb: Why is this not obvious to anyone who watches the Pens?
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed May 29, 2013 1:33 pm

This session of the Fleury defense court will now come to order.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby brwi on Wed May 29, 2013 3:19 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:This session of the Fleury defense court will now come to order.


Forget that....Terrie and I are going to go light one up.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby She'sTheFastest on Wed May 29, 2013 6:06 pm

So is Craig Anderson a hooker?
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed May 29, 2013 6:24 pm

0/10

toke jopic
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby SolidSnake on Wed May 29, 2013 6:41 pm

DropEmJayBird wrote:Obviously the stats don't lie,

An .884 save percentage against the penguins. A total meltdown. Obviously his defense lost confidence in him and because of that they couldn't play well in front of him. Too many soft goals like the Malkin breakaway, and the Neal toe drag shot... eventually you have to wonder if the defense of Ottawa would have been better off just having a garbage can in net. Craig Anderson is a headcase - a playoff choker - and should be bought out or traded by Ottawa this offseason. If the team loses confidence in you - obviously they can't play well on the ice.

Yes, that's dripping with sarcasm - but it's something a Penguin fan might say in Ottawa right now. Ottawa had no offense, and defensively broke down - and their goalie looked bad because of it.

Hips don't lie either
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Thu May 30, 2013 9:29 am

I don't see much response in this thread other than the typical "I hate Fleury because bad goals".

When teams get outplayed - goalies give up bad goals. Craig Anderson gave up bad goals, and yes it was because one team outplayed the other - regardless of why that happened. The Penguins outplayed Ottawa, and yes - surely because they were the better team, that doesn't change the fact that a world class goalie looked like a joke. The canadians, the flyers, and the islanders all outplayed the Penguins in those "Fleury blew it" series.

Against the Canadiens Crosby and Malkin recorded 1 goal each in a seven game series. Let that sink in for a moment. Fleury had 1 shut out in that series and was 30 seconds away from recording a second one. He had as many shut outs and nearly more shut outs than each of our world class players had goals. If you want to pin any blame on that series - look to the big guns who simply did not get it done.

The flyers and islanders both forced an undisciplined penguins team into numerous turnovers which through a quick striking transition game with some offensive talent - created a ton of quality scoring chances around the net. I simply do not see how any looks at those series/games and starts with the goaltending. It would be the same as a senators fan looking at this series and saying "Wow - we would had a chance with some goaltending".

We saw a 2 games in the islander series where the penguins controlled the play similar to the way they did against the senators. Fleury got a shut out in game 1, and Vokoun got a shut out in game 2. I have no doubt in my mind Fleury would have put up big numbers in the Ottawa series... as would any goalie most likely. My point is that we invest far too much blame/praise into goalies when you have series like the flyers, islanders, and even the senators.

When I think of a comparison set of games to see what would Vokoun do put behind a penguins defense that breaks down, is overrun, and downright awful... I look to the middle of the season against the Panthers and Canadiens. They did not go well.
Last edited by DropEmJayBird on Thu May 30, 2013 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Thu May 30, 2013 9:35 am

Henry Hank wrote:Dumb post. Pens fans didn't give up on Fleury because of one bad series in which his team was overmatched. Pens fans have given up on him after four straight years of substandard postseason play against lower seeded teams.

This is essentially the "it's just one game!" argument. Reasonable people don't jump to conclusions based on one occurrence. When things become a pattern, that's when you get concerned. Fleury's playoff duds have become the norm. Has he been the only problem, no, but he's been a big one and a correctable one as we've seen since Vokoun replaced him.


But the replacement has faced one of the worst offensive teams to make the playoffs in recent memory. My post is to simply point out how stupid it is to blame/praise goalies when it's cleary how the team in front of them is playing that is winning/losing these odd/lopsided series.

Fleury would have looked really good against an inept Ottawa team outplayed by the Penguins. Vokoun would have looked just as bad against the Flyers/Islanders in some of those games.

I won't argue that perhaps it's a bad investment to pay a goalie 5 million a year if you can get a Vokoun at 2 million a year - though when we face a team that still can generate some quality chances when our defense is actually playing well as compared to the lopsided efforts against the islanders and flyers, we shall see, but I think finding guys like Vokoun available for that kind of money is a rarity - though I'm not sure how well he'd hold up an entire year.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu May 30, 2013 9:41 am

The point of your post is that you are on a crusade to defend Fleury, despite the reality that he has been inadequate in the playoffs for 4 straight seasons.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Thu May 30, 2013 9:45 am

Idoit40fans wrote:The point of your post is that you are on a crusade to defend Fleury, despite the reality that he has been inadequate in the playoffs for 4 straight seasons.


meh - the team was inadequate the the past 4 seasons, everyone will seem to admit that in every Fire Dan Byslma thread, but that inconvienient fact stays silent when the blame Fleury threads kick into high gear.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Staggy on Thu May 30, 2013 10:21 am

The team played exactly the same way in front of Vokoun in the first period of Game 5 and all of Game 6 that they did in Games 2-4 in front of Fleury. Vokoun let in 3 goals in 4 periods, Fleury let in 14 goals in 9 periods.
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Re: Should Ottawa buyout headcase Craig Anderson?

Postby Beveridge on Thu May 30, 2013 10:27 am

I love Flower and I would argue that Sens series is also 5 games with him in net.

However, there can't be a sane argument made for game 6 of Isles series. Vokoun won that game and prevented a game 7. Pens played like trash in front of him that entire game.


For past years, I dunno. Montreal he let in a handful of duds that in one goal games could be argued were the difference but Halak played out of his mind. Tampa series he played well most of the games. Last year, everyone from the head coach to the backup goalie played like crap and that's saying something since the backup goalie I don't remember ever playing in that series.

Vokoun is the right man for the job at this point in time.
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