So what have we learned?

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So what have we learned?

Postby The Current One on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:40 am

1. Disco Dan needs to be canned.
2. Fleury needs to be bought out/traded/demoted...whatever it takes.
3. Geno probably needs shoulder surgery (just speculating).
4. Sid is injury-free, which is a good thing. Other than that, not much else to say...
5. Paul Martin is the Pens best all-around defenseman.
6. Letang is a bonehead and not worth what many think he will ask for. Trade him
7. Orpik is on the decline.
8. Iginla and Morrow are old and slow.
9. Disco Dan needs to be canned.
10. Pens need an infusion of youth, speed and size.
11. Shero has a lot of work to do this summer....see points 1, 2, 6, 9 and 10.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby kovyfalcon27 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:14 am

12. That we need more threads with bullet points
that all say the same 5-10 points.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby smoothmoneyb on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:16 am

1. Yep
2. True, but ironically, probably the least of our problems
3. ??
4. He was a disappointment, as was 90% of the team
5. Yes, definitely in terms of consistency and reliability
6. Probably. As long as there's a fair return. UNLESS... #1 is fixed, then can #6 be fixed at the same time?
7. Nothing new
8. Yep, but they still add value to the team at the right price
9. Good point
10. Couldn't hurt.. some of that was sitting in the press box for most of the playoffs
11. I agree
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby topshelf66 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:16 am

1. Dan will be here next year even though he has not proven to be a playoff coach.
2. We must sign Malkin.
3. Fleury only gets bought out if we need cash to sign 58.
4. Gonchar just got 5 mil a year. Letang is getting bank.
5. I would give it to him despite his many faults.
6. We are counting on growth and maturity from 87, 71, 47, 19, why not 58?
7. The only pick up we should keep is 3. Perhaps 36.
8. Thank you Cooke, Kennedy and Dupuis. You at least got one cup.
9. Three months until camp.
10. Let's Go Pens.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Sarcastic on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:19 am

I learned that Penguins are a bunch of ignorant asses. Read their quotes. They did all the things right, just bad luck happened. So we can expect the same next year, I guess.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=673318
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Malkamaniac on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:57 am

Sarcastic wrote:I learned that Penguins are a bunch of ignorant asses. Read their quotes. They did all the things right, just bad luck happened. So we can expect the same next year, I guess.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=673318


More telling of the coach IMO. Won't even tell the team like it is and lets them really get invested in this get to our game nonsense.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby joker10277 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:01 pm

Yep, listening to those interviews other than Malkin, they're all talking about bounces, bad luck, and deserving a better fate.
Maybe they are the most arrogant orginization in the NHL.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby farnham16 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:03 pm

Penguins have become entitled. No question about that. They think that their way is best no matter what and if they lose its only because they didn't get bounces and deserved better.

Players take on the mentality of their head coach.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:19 pm

1. A team is more than the sum of its parts. We have a lot of good parts, but at times they did not mesh.
2. Coaching is the key part that gets the team to perform above their limits or their own doubts. Our coaching has been just horrible. Bylsma MUST go.
3. The Penguins have played a predictable style that gambles on offense and thinks defensively last. They paid for it against Boston.
4. Sometimes the breaks never do even out; that was a huge part of this series.
5. Based on his play, I don't think Crosby is OK. He's suffered some major injuries this season and I think they were a factor.
6. Despite all the happy talk, NHL officiating is still "garage league" level and in the playoffs it tends to return to form. Clutching, grabbing, hooking, and interference penalties were IGNORED by the zebras all series. Captain Hook's (aka Jagr) play on the GWG in Game 3 was pivotal.

Specific things to do:
1. Replace Bylsma with a more seasoned coach who knows how to deal with superstars, create a system that takes advantage of the available talent, and make in-game adjustments. Bylsma is bad at all 3 aspects of the game and was probably promoted to NHL head coaching level too soon. Of course, hindsight is 20-20.
2. Buyout Fleury or trade him (if possible).
3. Trade Niskannen.
4. Re-sign Murray and Eaton.
5. Let Adams retire with our thanks for great PK work.
6. Re-sign Cooke; he's one of the few players that gives 110% all the time. He's earned it.
7. Move up Bennett, Despres, and Bortuzzo. It's time for the youth to play and get ready for next year's Cup run.
8. Iginla belongs on the RW.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Tyler Durden on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:20 pm

topshelf66 wrote:1. Dan will be here next year even though he has not proven to be a playoff coach.
2. We must sign Malkin.
3. Fleury only gets bought out if we need cash to sign 58.

4. Gonchar just got 5 mil a year. Letang is getting bank.
5. I would give it to him despite his many faults.
6. We are counting on growth and maturity from 87, 71, 47, 19, why not 58?
7. The only pick up we should keep is 3. Perhaps 36.
8. Thank you Cooke, Kennedy and Dupuis. You at least got one cup.
9. Three months until camp.
10. Let's Go Pens.


When is the buyout period? Isn't that prior to July 1st? If so, Shero wont know what kind of cash it takes to sign Letang because contracts cannot be signed until July 1st. On second thought, the framework of contacts can be worked out before July 1st. The Staal situation from last year made me think of that.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:22 pm

farnham16 wrote:Penguins have become entitled. No question about that. They think that their way is best no matter what and if they lose its only because they didn't get bounces and deserved better.

Players take on the mentality of their head coach.


This! :thumb:

This is EXACTLY why Bylsma must go. The country club must be over. FOUR years of talent that is the envy of the league and what have we got to show for it?

A lot of "woulda, coulda, shoulda" and talk of bad bounces.

Not acceptable my friends, not acceptable.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Bathgate on Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:39 pm

I think we've learned that a trapping and defense-first system may the only answer.

The last NHL team to lead the league in scoring and win the Stanley Cup was the '92 Pens. Recall how they went to the trap (recommended by Coach Scotty Bowman and endorsed by Captain Lemieux) after falling behind the Caps 3-1 in the first round, then went on to win 4 rounds.

The New Jersey Devils have had plenty of talented scoring stars, yet never varied from a trapping system, generally with good regular season and playoff success.

The dynastic Canadiens teams of the 1970's were loaded with future hall-of-famers and played a trapping game under Scotty Bowman.

We've just seen what the Bruins did to the Pens and how the LA Kings won last year. NHL officiating, especially in the playoffs, is drifting back to a let-more-go mode that is not to the advantage of star offensive players.

Crosby and Malkin have just been humbled by a talented trapping team. Now may be the time to get their buy-in to perhaps sacrifice scoring titles for a system that can be more successful in the playoffs. It may mean less exciting regular season games, but is there any other way to beat skilled trapping teams in the playoffs other to beat them at their own game? If they had trapped, maybe the Pens would have scored some goals against the Bruins off of turnovers at center ice. The Bruins had few turnovers in the series. The Pens had many.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:27 pm

What works in the regular season doesn't always work in the Playoffs.

A coach needs to adjust his strategy to take advantage of:

1) what the other team is giving him/the team
2) what the officials are calling/not calling

The Pens failed miserably on that score
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Steve on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:27 pm

farnham16 wrote:Penguins have become entitled. No question about that


I think that more accurately describes a big percentage of our fan base, than our team.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby MRandall25 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:31 pm

Steve wrote:
farnham16 wrote:Penguins have become entitled. No question about that


I think that more accurately describes a big percentage of our fan base, than our team.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:36 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
Steve wrote:
farnham16 wrote:Penguins have become entitled. No question about that


I think that more accurately describes a big percentage of our fan base, than our team.

Some, sure.

But I don't think you can fault the fans for thinking that the team that could arguably be said to have had the best roster (on paper) are disappointed that they were eliminated in four straight, went 0-15 on the PP and scored a lousy two goals in the entire series, for thinking they should have had a better showing in the conference final.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Steve on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:48 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:
Steve wrote:
farnham16 wrote:Penguins have become entitled. No question about that


I think that more accurately describes a big percentage of our fan base, than our team.

Some, sure.

But I don't think you can fault the fans for thinking that the team that could arguably be said to have had the best roster (on paper) are disappointed that they were eliminated in four straight, went 0-15 on the PP and scored a lousy two goals in the entire series, for thinking they should have had a better showing in the conference final.


Yeah I definately agree, and i was including myself at times, in my original comment.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby joe on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:52 pm

1) Defense and goaltending always wins cups
2) Regular success means squat in the playoffs
3) Pens were rattled game one and never recovered
4) Coach DB thanks but time to go
5) Letang - i read somewhere maybe here make letang a winger next year not a bad idea
6) MAF - gone
7) Orpik - clearly on the decline since 2009
8) ignlia - you were no bill guerin
9) Bruins - they outcoached and outplayed the pens in every capacity
10) Fans - we are down but all of us will be back next year. Pens need a serious makeover it will be exciting to watch it develop
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby wondermoose on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:07 pm

I think it's time to admit Pittsburgh has a responsibility problem and Bylsma is at the forefront of it. He inherited a team that was committed to defense but unhappy with treatment, and it was a perfect combination at the time. Since then, he has ruined the development of Kris Letang as a defenseman by not making him accountable for his mistakes. The offense on this team will come, but they need a coach that will remind them how they need to play.

I am close to saying Letang is in the same category as Fleury, who is broken and needs to go, but he's so talented that it makes me believe he can be coached. Bylsma did absolutely, positively nothing to bring out the best in Letang. It's almost as if he did what Boudreau did with Mike Green and said, "Just go do your thing." Once upon a time Letang talked about playing a game similar to Nik Lidstrom's, and he's about as far from that as humanly possible.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Steve on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:10 pm

The Current One wrote:1. Disco Dan needs to be canned.
2. Fleury needs to be bought out/traded/demoted...whatever it takes.
3. Geno probably needs shoulder surgery (just speculating).
4. Sid is injury-free, which is a good thing. Other than that, not much else to say...
5. Paul Martin is the Pens best all-around defenseman.
6. Letang is a bonehead and not worth what many think he will ask for. Trade him
7. Orpik is on the decline.
8. Iginla and Morrow are old and slow.
9. Disco Dan needs to be canned.
10. Pens need an infusion of youth, speed and size.
11. Shero has a lot of work to do this summer....see points 1, 2, 6, 9 and 10.



You said "can disco dan" twice 8-)

Reminds me of...

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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby penny lane on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:17 pm

joker10277 wrote:Yep, listening to those interviews other than Malkin, they're all talking about bounces, bad luck, and deserving a better fate.
Maybe they are the most arrogant organization in the NHL.

Maybe they are. They always believe, they are always told they will get to their game. Even last night.

Evgeni, he spoke from his soul, no pre fabricated comments.
“I tried,” Malkin said. “I tried. If you're not (shooting), you're not scoring goals. Sometimes I'm not scoring and I'm nervous and I have good chances — I don't know, try to shoot quicker? Sometimes I can wait and get an empty net. It's tough.
“I have no confidence. You know, zero goals.”
Malkin launched 21 shots on goal during the series.


Read more: http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/415 ... z2VeLneVm5
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:22 pm

wondermoose wrote:I think it's time to admit Pittsburgh has a responsibility problem and Bylsma is at the forefront of it. He inherited a team that was committed to defense but unhappy with treatment, and it was a perfect combination at the time. Since then, he has ruined the development of Kris Letang as a defenseman by not making him accountable for his mistakes. The offense on this team will come, but they need a coach that will remind them how they need to play.

I am close to saying Letang is in the same category as Fleury, who is broken and needs to go, but he's so talented that it makes me believe he can be coached. Bylsma did absolutely, positively nothing to bring out the best in Letang. It's almost as if he did what Boudreau did with Mike Green and said, "Just go do your thing." Once upon a time Letang talked about playing a game similar to Nik Lidstrom's, and he's about as far from that as humanly possible.


I think you absolutely nailed this. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

I'm also struck by the fact that when a Bylsma team faces adversity, they break apart at the seams, come completely undone and try to do it all individually. That is a lack of confidence in each other or the system and that is all on the coach.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby Rugbymuffin on Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:37 am

Get Jerome "Square Peg" Iginla

and

Matt "Two shifts on, 4 shifts off" Niskenen

off our team.

Oh, and kick Iginla in the butt as he walks out the door.
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby owtahear on Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:01 am

The Current One wrote:1. Disco Dan needs to be canned.
2. Fleury needs to be bought out/traded/demoted...whatever it takes.
3. Geno probably needs shoulder surgery (just speculating).
4. Sid is injury-free, which is a good thing. Other than that, not much else to say...
5. Paul Martin is the Pens best all-around defenseman.
6. Letang is a bonehead and not worth what many think he will ask for. Trade him
7. Orpik is on the decline.
8. Iginla and Morrow are old and slow.
9. Disco Dan needs to be canned.
10. Pens need an infusion of youth, speed and size.
11. Shero has a lot of work to do this summer....see points 1, 2, 6, 9 and 10.


Some Math.

[#6+#10]=#11
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Re: So what have we learned?

Postby pcm on Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:08 am

A few other things for the learning:

Fleury has not been the problem. The team got solid goaltending from Vokoun and still got mightily embarrassed.

Malkin is this team's best leader. He tells it like it is. One of the only Pens to put it all out there.

This organization has a problem developing talent.

Dupuis > Kunitz
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