The new Malkin contract.

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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby DesertPenguin on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:23 pm

pens2005 wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:This is the worst year for Malkin and Letang to be up for contracts. You shouldn't compare old contracts to new because the CBA changed and the cap dropped almost 10%. Agents and players won't see it that way, and will want to compare new deals to previous ones.

I'm hoping he takes less than 10.8 with the assumption that he'll be able to make more on the 4 years following it than sid will. I'm hopeful for 9.5 million. That ammount would not hamstring the rest of the team.


He shouldn't make a penny more than 8.7 per year.

Anything more is a joke.


Malkin's last deal kicked in in the 09-10 season, when the cap was 56.8 million. If I am his agent, I'm not going any lower than his existing contract scaled to the current cap. 8.7 * (64.3/56.8) = 9.85m.

Prediction: Geno gets 8 years, 9.85m/season.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby mac5155 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:23 pm

what about infinity TIMES infinity?


Spoiler:
pooooooshhh
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:25 pm

pens2005 wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:This is the worst year for Malkin and Letang to be up for contracts. You shouldn't compare old contracts to new because the CBA changed and the cap dropped almost 10%. Agents and players won't see it that way, and will want to compare new deals to previous ones.

I'm hoping he takes less than 10.8 with the assumption that he'll be able to make more on the 4 years following it than sid will. I'm hopeful for 9.5 million. That ammount would not hamstring the rest of the team.


He shouldn't make a penny more than 8.7 per year.

Anything more is a joke.


He will. Crosby is making $12 million a year.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby the riddler on Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:37 pm

He isn't taking much of a discount compared to what Crosby will make over the course of his contract. True. But he likely, like Crosby, will take a discount to stay with the Penguins. They both could've asked for the max deal but they chose not to do that in order to field a more competitive team.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby longtimefan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:13 pm

Corey Perry just signed for 8 years at $8.625M per year on the cap hit. He's a nice player, but he's not Malkin. The new CBA is designed to reduce overall payroll. However, it won't have a huge effect on the stars. They will always get theirs. The individual cap hits will just be higher. Want proof. Look at what has happened since the new CBA was ratified. Perry and Ryan Getzlaf both signed 8 year deals in excess of $8M. semin was given $7M per season. Gonchar was given 2 years at $5M per. A player way past his prime. So Malkin isn't going to simply accept the $8.7M cap hit. Sid is making $12M. Without getting too far into economics, the time value of money makes a huge differnence with contracts which can't be frontloaded. My hope is Mlakin will settle for less then the $10.8 real salary Crosby is going to get. I think the benchmark could come in at $9.6M per season. Why $9.6M instead of $9.5M. That would give Geno the top cap hit in the game, passing his old buddy Ovechkin. I believe that would please him, and hopefully appease him!
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:19 pm

Do players really try to top each other's cap hits?
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby MalkinIsMyHomeboy on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:27 pm

7.50/hour
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:33 pm

Crankshaft wrote:Do players really try to top each other's cap hits?


These players have agents. If they weren't trying, I'd want mine fired. OV style.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Steve Dave on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:47 pm

How about if Shero says we have $15 mil to spend for each of the top 2 lines: Kunitz ($3.725) Crosby ($8.7) Dupuis ($2.575) and Bennett ($0.9) Malkin ($9.1) Neal ($5.0). Then he can strongarm both Malkin and Dupuis into signing...
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby pens2005 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:55 pm

DontToewsMeBro wrote:
pens2005 wrote:
DesertPenguin wrote:This is the worst year for Malkin and Letang to be up for contracts. You shouldn't compare old contracts to new because the CBA changed and the cap dropped almost 10%. Agents and players won't see it that way, and will want to compare new deals to previous ones.

I'm hoping he takes less than 10.8 with the assumption that he'll be able to make more on the 4 years following it than sid will. I'm hopeful for 9.5 million. That ammount would not hamstring the rest of the team.


He shouldn't make a penny more than 8.7 per year.

Anything more is a joke.


He will. Crosby is making $12 million a year.



Stop with that. I'm talking about cap hit which is 8.7.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:06 pm

Steve Dave wrote:How about if Shero says we have $15 mil to spend for each of the top 2 lines: Kunitz ($3.725) Crosby ($8.7) Dupuis ($2.575) and Bennett ($0.9) Malkin ($9.1) Neal ($5.0). Then he can strongarm both Malkin and Dupuis into signing...


Dupuis leaving $2M on the table? Nah.

pens2005 wrote:Stop with that. I'm talking about cap hit which is 8.7.


I'm talking about real dollars. Crosby is making $100M over 12 years, 95% of which he will receive in the first 9 years. Malkin doesn't have the luxury of front-loading his contract.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Stick_licker on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:22 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
Stick_licker wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I am getting annoyed with people acting like Malkin is giving a discount by taking 8.7 a year. Say he's taking an unnecessary risk if you want to, but don't call it a discount compared to what Crosby is taking. Its not. If he's healthy after the contract, he has an opportunity to sign again, with a higher cap, at the same or higher cap hit. and make the same(or more) than Crosby over the life of Crosby's contract. His career isn't over after 8 years...maybe. :pop:


Sid is getting paid 10.6 M per year for the next 8 years. If Malkin takes 8.7M per year for 8 years then it is exactly a discount if you believe Malkin is of the same level as Crosby. Even if you think Crosby > Malkin, I doubt you think he's 20% greater which what 10.6 / 8.7 implies. It IS a discount.


I don't think you are understanding what Idoit40fans is saying. Crosby is making more up front money in 8 years, but he's locked beyond that and will more than likely be making much less money than Malkin after his 8 year contract because he'll be able to renegotiate a more lucrative contract.


There's a whole lotta wrong with that argument. A dollar today is worth a lot more than a dollar in 8 years. Even invested conservatively you're dropping a boatload of money by delaying 8 years. Additionally Malkin could decline in ability, get a concussion, have a chronic injury or something else that would prevent him from a future payday. Keep in mind he'll be ~35 - not an age where people usually cash out. No one besides a fan would ever consider your argument reasonable.

The bottom line is that Crosby is making 12 Million now and will make an average of 10.6 over the span of Malkin's contract. THAT is the number you should compare to. The 8.7 number is utterly meaningless when it comes to Malkin's bank account. If you don't think a 20% discount over Crosby is significant you need to consider if you'd accept a 20% paycut next year. Maybe he will because he's rich enough - but I wouldn't hold it against him for a second to demand what he's worth.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby no name on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:40 pm

Sid said when he signed his deal he has no problem not being the highest paid player on the team. Its easy to see Geno will have a higher cap hit. As much as I like to use different ways to figure his new contract, using the last CBA and the new one is much harder to find middle ground. I think it really will come down to what Geno is comfortable with. I think he wants to be on a competitive team and understand how that might effect his cap number.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Mr. Colby on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:40 pm

8-75 = 9.375/
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby SubtropicalPenguin on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:52 pm

Stick_licker wrote:
Crankshaft wrote:
Stick_licker wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:I am getting annoyed with people acting like Malkin is giving a discount by taking 8.7 a year. Say he's taking an unnecessary risk if you want to, but don't call it a discount compared to what Crosby is taking. Its not. If he's healthy after the contract, he has an opportunity to sign again, with a higher cap, at the same or higher cap hit. and make the same(or more) than Crosby over the life of Crosby's contract. His career isn't over after 8 years...maybe. :pop:


Sid is getting paid 10.6 M per year for the next 8 years. If Malkin takes 8.7M per year for 8 years then it is exactly a discount if you believe Malkin is of the same level as Crosby. Even if you think Crosby > Malkin, I doubt you think he's 20% greater which what 10.6 / 8.7 implies. It IS a discount.


I don't think you are understanding what Idoit40fans is saying. Crosby is making more up front money in 8 years, but he's locked beyond that and will more than likely be making much less money than Malkin after his 8 year contract because he'll be able to renegotiate a more lucrative contract.


There's a whole lotta wrong with that argument. A dollar today is worth a lot more than a dollar in 8 years. Even invested conservatively you're dropping a boatload of money by delaying 8 years. Additionally Malkin could decline in ability, get a concussion, have a chronic injury or something else that would prevent him from a future payday. Keep in mind he'll be ~35 - not an age where people usually cash out. No one besides a fan would ever consider your argument reasonable.

The bottom line is that Crosby is making 12 Million now and will make an average of 10.6 over the span of Malkin's contract. THAT is the number you should compare to. The 8.7 number is utterly meaningless when it comes to Malkin's bank account. If you don't think a 20% discount over Crosby is significant you need to consider if you'd accept a 20% paycut next year. Maybe he will because he's rich enough - but I wouldn't hold it against him for a second to demand what he's worth.


I think it is worth noting that Malkin will (barring injury) easily get around 5 million for a few years after this contract is up. He will be 35 and have most likely have a few strong seasons left in the tank. I mean, Gonchar is 39 and still bringin in 5 million/yr. Granted, the time value of money severly impacts this contract compared with Sid's, but this contract takes Sid through age 37 and he will be making only 3 million per year from age 35-37. I'm sure Shero will point that out during negotiations, and I am equally sure Malkin's camp will note the time value of money argument. My guess is Malkin gets signed around 8 years between 70 million and 75 million. If he went open market, he could probably get 75 million in 7 years without any trouble.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Nizzy on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:06 pm

Crankshaft wrote:I think he gets an 8 year deal worth $71 million which gives him a cap value of $8.875.


<3
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Fire0nice228 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:18 pm

I like whoever presented the scenario of 9.6 million so that he has the highest cap hit in the game, but isn't a totally ridiculous hit.


Anyone who honestly thinks 8.7 for 8 years is all he should/deserves etc to get..yikes. I think he's more than slightly better than Getzlaf or Perry. The new CBA only hurts the mid tier and below guys..the big stars will get there money. I feel like he'll be somewhere over 8.7 but below the 10.6 Sid will average over the next 8 seasons.

As far as taking less and "sure Gene we'll sign you to a contract when your 35 for a few years at 4 or 5 million we'll take care of you"...... if I'm a player..hell no. If it isn't signed on the dotted line it don't mean ****. One bad hit to his head, eye, leg etc. and his ability to make money is gone, and suddenly he's shorted himself 12ish million dollars that Sid will get over the next 8 years.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby pcm on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:38 pm

Steve Dave wrote:How about if Shero says we have $15 mil to spend for each of the top 2 lines: Kunitz ($3.725) Crosby ($8.7) Dupuis ($2.575) and Bennett ($0.9) Malkin ($9.1) Neal ($5.0). Then he can strongarm both Malkin and Dupuis into signing...


I don't know if teams actually think this way, but its' how I would think when building a team.

% of Cap

30% - defense
10% - goaltending
25%- first line
20% - second line
10% - third line
5% - fourth line

With this team, 1st and 2nd line average out to 22% each. A cap hit of $64m means for next year:

Defense: $19m - $16m allocated for 6 players
Goal: $6.4m - $7m allocated
1st: $14m - $13.3m (Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett)
2nd: $14m - $12.7m (??-Malkin-Neal)
3rd: $6.4 - $4 (Jokinen-Sutter-??)
4th: $3.2 - $1.6 (Glass-Vitale-??)

I could see Dupuis ($3-3.5m), Morrow ($2m), and Jeffrey (600k) rounding out the roster.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby pcm on Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:40 pm

If Malkin's cap hit goes up by @ $1m, you figure the cap will likely go up by at least that much in 2014 as well. No biggy.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby pressure=9Pa on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:05 pm

When will the '14 cap be announced? It's usually about this time of year, right? I'm guessing the NHL did pretty well this year in a shortened season, but much of that success may not hit the bottom line for a year or two.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby sil on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:10 pm

It's usually announced the spring before, so we've a while to wait.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby DelPen on Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:56 am

$10 million is reasonable. It's only a $1.3 million raise so that contract isn't going to break e team up.

Letang is the one that can screw things up a lot.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby pens2005 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:23 am

DelPen wrote:$10 million is reasonable. It's only a $1.3 million raise so that contract isn't going to break e team up.

Letang is the one that can screw things up a lot.


His annual cap hit shouldn't be a penny more than Sid's. Still can't believe people think it would be into cripple this organization by signing him to a $10 mil contract.

Welcome to mediocrity.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby no name on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:24 am

10 million is not unreasonable its putting together a team around Geno and Sid that worries me. Geno is worth 11 a season, but that doesn't help us to chase the cup. Its a tough job either way.
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Re: The new Malkin contract.

Postby Admin on Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:36 am

Beveridge wrote:8 years 76 million is my guess.

Welcome to the board, GMRS.
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