DB endorses Flower?

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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:02 pm

Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby topshelf66 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:05 pm

I think you are going to see a repeat of this past regular season. HCDB will say that there is a schedule for starting both goaltenders nearly regardless of outcomes.

We can then go into the post-season with two goaltenders that have not carried too much of the load.

This year may be a wake up call for Fleury. Plus, I am hoping that there is an element of "we lost the ECF and it was not my fault" mentality that could actually be good for his psyche.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:06 pm

topshelf66 wrote:This year may be a wake up call for Fleury. Plus, I am hoping that there is an element of "we lost the ECF and it was not my fault" mentality that could actually be good for his psyche.


My concern is that the players and coach didn't seem to think it was their fault either.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:10 pm

columbia wrote:
topshelf66 wrote:This year may be a wake up call for Fleury. Plus, I am hoping that there is an element of "we lost the ECF and it was not my fault" mentality that could actually be good for his psyche.


My concern is that the players and coach didn't seem to think it was their fault either.


Yes, the ol' "we got swept because of puck luck" trick :pop:
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:20 pm

I don't think they're talking about luck behind closed doors.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:39 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:45 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.


Hasek didn't win his first Vezina until 28. :slug:
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:45 pm

And Martin Brodeur still uses a goalie coach.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:52 pm

MRandall25 wrote:And Martin Brodeur still uses a goalie coach.


We're comparing Fleury to Marty Brodeur now?
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby columbia on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:53 pm

They both speak French.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby meow on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:54 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.

This is 100% freaking wrong. Goalies are in need of coaching at the NHL level more so than at any other level. They can dominate at lower levels purely off of skill, talent, and athleticism. With advanced scouting and the amount of video sessions that NHL players do, they know every weakness of every goalie in the league. Good coaching to fill holes in their play is beyond critical.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby MRandall25 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:59 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:And Martin Brodeur still uses a goalie coach.


We're comparing Fleury to Marty Brodeur now?


Where are you getting that?

You said "Goalies have it figured out or not". Obviously, even the ones who do have it "figured out" still use goalie coaches.

Tells me a goalie coach is important to a goalie. It's important enough that Martin Brodeur still uses one even though he's been playing for 20 years. If he had it all "figured out", why would he need a goalie coach?
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:59 pm

Because goalies all suck and are nothing but pads and meat.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:00 pm

meow wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.

This is 100% freaking wrong. Goalies are in need of coaching at the NHL level more so than at any other level. They can dominate at lower levels purely off of skill, talent, and athleticism. With advanced scouting and the amount of video sessions that NHL players do, they know every weakness of every goalie in the league. Good coaching to fill holes in their play is beyond critical.


What amount of scouting, film review, or any other technical analysis of goaltending is going to fix his mental fragility?
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:03 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:
meow wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.

This is 100% freaking wrong. Goalies are in need of coaching at the NHL level more so than at any other level. They can dominate at lower levels purely off of skill, talent, and athleticism. With advanced scouting and the amount of video sessions that NHL players do, they know every weakness of every goalie in the league. Good coaching to fill holes in their play is beyond critical.


What amount of scouting, film review, or any other technical analysis of goaltending is going to fix his mental fragility?


A fresh new outlook and having someone who would be able to help him navigate and handle these high pressure situations would go a long way in helping him grow.

Many goaltenders don't break out until later in their careers. He's only 28. If you can trade him and get a Jonathan Bernier to replace him (not in the same deal), fine. But to write him off now is just irresponsible and just stupid.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:06 pm

Crankshaft wrote:But to write him off now is just irresponsible and just stupid.


Fleury's Playoff Stats the last 4 years

2009–10 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 13 7 6 — — 798 37 1 2.78 0.891
2010–11 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 7 3 4 — — 405 17 1 2.52 0.899
2011–12 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 6 2 4 — — 337 26 0 4.63 0.834
2012–13 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 5 2 2 — — 290 17 1 3.52 0.883

Irresponsible and stupid, k. I'm sure a Patrick Roy like career renaissance is right around the corner. :roll:

I'm basing my opinion on performance and statistical fact, not some pie in the sky hope that if he goes on prozac or watches more film, he's going to turn into some world-beater goalie. He's just not that good, period.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby meow on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:12 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:
meow wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.

This is 100% freaking wrong. Goalies are in need of coaching at the NHL level more so than at any other level. They can dominate at lower levels purely off of skill, talent, and athleticism. With advanced scouting and the amount of video sessions that NHL players do, they know every weakness of every goalie in the league. Good coaching to fill holes in their play is beyond critical.


What amount of scouting, film review, or any other technical analysis of goaltending is going to fix his mental fragility?

Read my post again. You got lost somewhere along the way. NHL players scout NHL goalies.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:12 pm

And with all of these goalies that really turned great around the 30 mark, you could see flashes of brilliance and the progression to eventual greatness. That's not the case with Fleury. He has shown consistently over the past 4 years that he's just not that great of a goalie. People look way too into this, when the answer is very simple.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:15 pm

Code: Select all
                        GP    GS     Mins  W      L      T     OTL    GAA   Sv% SO
 2009-10   PIT   67   66   3798   37   21   0   6   2.65   .905   1   
 2010-11   PIT   65   62   3695   36   20   0   5   2.32   .918   3   
 2011-12   PIT   67   64   3896   42   17   0   4   2.36   .913   3   
 2012-13   PIT   33   31   1858   23   8   0   0   2.39   .916   1   


How are you going to replace his regular season production at this point? Don't say Vokoun/Hartzel.

I know people are fixated on the playoff performance, but you have to play well in the regular season to set yourself up for the playoffs.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:16 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:And with all of these goalies that really turned great around the 30 mark, you could see flashes of brilliance and the progression to eventual greatness. That's not the case with Fleury. He has shown consistently over the past 4 years that he's just not that great of a goalie. People look way too into this, when the answer is very simple.


Are you serious? You haven't seen any flashes of greatness in Fleury? If you haven't, you just don't know hockey.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby meow on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:17 pm

Is this dude serious? You can't be serious.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Getting To My Game on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:22 pm

Keep drinking the kool-aid.

Penguins fans are the only ones who talk about this greatness that Fleury has, all other NHL fans rightfully have the opinion that he sucks.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby meow on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:27 pm

Getting To My Game wrote:Keep drinking the kool-aid.

Penguins fans are the only ones who talk about this greatness that Fleury has, all other NHL fans rightfully have the opinion that he sucks.

I think you are reading what you want to read and not what is actually being written. All we are saying is that he's shown the ability to be great and goaltending coaches are extremely important. That's all.
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby Crankshaft on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:31 pm

meow wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:Keep drinking the kool-aid.

Penguins fans are the only ones who talk about this greatness that Fleury has, all other NHL fans rightfully have the opinion that he sucks.

I think you are reading what you want to read and not what is actually being written. All we are saying is that he's shown the ability to be great and goaltending coaches are extremely important. That's all.


And if I can add, history has shown that goaltenders tend to blossom later in age (late 20s).

Getting to my Game needs to go have a smoke and chill. :lol:
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Re: DB endorses Flower?

Postby tfrizz on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:28 pm

Rylan wrote:
Getting To My Game wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, a new goalie coach could do wonders for Fleury.

Hopefully they find a good one.


Goalies either have it figured out or not by this age. Fleury is what he is and it's not going to change.


Hasek didn't win his first Vezina until 28. :slug:


Vokoun didn't even take over a starting job until he was 26, and only established himself as an elite goaltender at 29.

Tim Thomas had a grand total of 4 NHL games under his belt at the age of 31.


There are plenty of cases of goalies putting it together in the late 20s or even early 30s.
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