Knowing what you know now..

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Would you rather the Pens have..

Lost to the Islander in 7, avoided the embarrassment in Boston and HCDB is let go.
17
30%
Everything is exactly as it is now. HCDB gets extended, and you feel that at least making it to the 3rd round was worth the embarrassment that was the Boston series.
25
45%
Don't really care either way.
14
25%
 
Total votes : 56

Knowing what you know now..

Postby smoothmoneyb on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:59 pm

Knowing what we all know after today, that is, Bylsma getting his contract extension, as well as the Pens falling to the Bruins in a historically embarrassing fashion, would you have rather lost to the Islanders in seven? (With the Pens losing the last two). I want to make it clear that a vote for losing to the Islanders in the first round also includes the hypothetical scenario where DB DOES NOT GET HIS EXTENSION AND IS LET GO. Now I understand that this is a pretty big assumption considering how difficult it seems to be for a coach get fired around here, but I think it's as safe as a bet as you're going to get. I honestly believe he would've been let go in that scenario. I'll be upfront here, I personally would have rather lost to the Islanders in seven. As embarrassing as it would've been to go out in the first round again, and as much of a s#*t storm as we would've seen on this board, knowing what I know now, I actually feel it was worse losing the way we did; being not only beaten, but swept by a rival after once again being the cup favorites. Having the most prolific offense in over 20 years, and then being held to a historically low number of goals for a series. That's just bad. Really bad. And then add that to the fact that getting to the conference finals probably earned DB his two year extension..

To me, the decision to keep DB should've come down to two questions.

#1 Do you think there is a single head coach in the NHL today that couldn't have gotten this current roster of pens into the playoffs?
#2 Out of all of the coaches currently available for hire, do you feel that DB gives the best chances at post season success?
#2a If you answered yes to #2 then one must ask "based on what evidence?" Lol

If you answered no to both of those, then I think think the answer is clear. You replace Dan as head coach, especially considering his recent post season failures. We all know this team is going to make the post season. I have no doubt that this team could probably coach themselves into the post season. In every year, our coach has lost to a team we should've beat. You could call Tampa a draw, but considering we were up 3-1, we SHOULD'VE beat them. The only real credit that I can give Dan, is the way he had this team playing on several occasions when both Malkin and Crosby were out, most notably in 2011. Other than that, he's pretty much been a total failure when it counts. Once again, I'm left saying "I'm not even going to pay attention until the post season" We all know that this team getting into the playoffs is as close to a sure thing as you're going to get for any team in the NHL, so for this coach and these players, it all comes down to what they do in the post season". But then of course, I said the same thing last year, so whatever. His supporters might point out the injuries we've had over the years or his record, and his stats and compared to other coaches, saying that this fanbase is spoiled and we shouldn't expect to win the cup every year. But I kind of disagree with with some of that. As a fan of almost any team, in any sport, you know that there will not be many opportunities to truly be great. There will be many years of mediocrity, rebuilding and a salary cap that makes putting a championship caliber team on the ice nearly impossible. If you've been a Pens or Steelers fan for long enough, you've experienced this several times over. There almost has to be a perfect storm of circumstances, including timing, luck, injuries and good management to be able to put the type of team on the ice that we had this year, and POSSIBLY next year as well. You HAVE to make the most of the opportunity while it's there, because it certainly won't be there for long. It's really frustrating watching any team piss away those type of opportunities b/c the opportunities are so few and far between. HCDB's record and list of accomplishments must be evaluated against the expectations, most of which are fairly realistic. And in that sense he has certainly fallen short.

The only good reason that I have seen mentioned for keeping DB around, is the fact that most of the players seem to like him, and considering that we are currently at the point of having to resign certain key players in this organization, keeping Dan around might be enough added incentive to help bring them back for a price we can afford. I only hope that as others have mentioned, GMRS sat Dan down and talked about the type of changes that would need to be made in the following years if he were to get an extension. That's really my only hope, and what I HAVE to believe in order to continue watching next year. You can't just continue watching hoping that we'll get all of the lucky bounces, or that we will somehow gain the magical force field around the net that Boston had this year. You have to believe that there will be changes, and you want to see your organization being proactive about making the type of changes that will result in a different outcome in the future. I'll try not to be overly pessimistic, but resigning DB does not indicate this type of change to me. I actually think it's kind of crazy that he was resigned this year. I mean we've all heard that definition of insanity quoted before: doing the same thing over and over, yet expecting different results? That's pretty much the only thing that keeps coming to my mind. All I can say is that very good coaches, across multiple sports have been let go for a lot less. But hey, here's to hoping..

Sorry to be so long winded, but while I'm at it, I want to talk about MAF. I should say that I do not hate Fleury, nor do I love him. I am about as indifferent to MAF as any player on this team. In my mind he is an average to slightly above average goaltender. This is not because he often plays like an average goalie, but because he is one of the most bipolar goalies in the NHL today. He goes from playing great to playing horrible in the blink of an eye, and if you average all of that out, you get... well average to a little above average. If he were making about half of what his current salary is, I'd be very happy with him. My biggest problem is with his salary. He is just NOT worth what he makes, especially considering we are currently in the midst of trying to find a way to resign a handful our core, or at least very important role players on this team. It would make so much more sense to try and trade him (or even buy him out), and find another Vokounesq type of goaltender. Someone who is solid, reliable and who you can count on to not lose games for you. Someone who can be had in the 2-2.5 mil range. Have him split time with Vokoun until you can acquire and develop some younger talent (maybe Hartzell..). Honestly, the way this team is built, as many have said, we don't need spectacular goaltending. And we certainly don't need to pay a guy franchise goalie money for average goaltending. Does anyone honestly believe that there is a current goalie in the NHL that would've won that Boston series for us!? I sure don't. And does anyone honestly believe that there is a current goalie in the NHL that would've lost the ottawa series for us? When the Pens are playing well, and not having to deal with coaches game planning against us, goaltending is rarely the difference maker, and solid/average will do. When it's the opposite, and we have to deal with "coaching", good goaltending is usually not enough. I realize that those two series are somewhat extreme examples, and some might try and make the case that Vokoun got us out of the Islander series, but I don't know. We certainly would've won game 5 with average goaltending. And had Fleruy been in net for game 6, I still say it's a coin flip. And of course there still would've been game 7. All I am saying is that it just doesn't make sense to pay Fleury the type of money for what we get in return.
Last edited by smoothmoneyb on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby mac5155 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:01 pm

No
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Rylan on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:02 pm

:shock:
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby FreeCandy44 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:05 pm

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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby smoothmoneyb on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:18 pm

I actually think it's a pretty reasonable question. I mean if you like Dan, feel he is the best guy for the job, or are even indifferent to him, you might vote one way. But if like many others, would have preferred him to be let go after this last series or even after last year, it might make you stop and think for a second. It's partially a question of how important you think a coaching change would've been to this team. To me if it's not the cup, it's simply not the cup. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter if it's the first or third round. Add that to the fact that you get to avoid the debacle in Boston, and I have no problem (hypothetically) sacrificing a couple rounds for what I believe would've resulted in a better outlook on the teams future (a coaching change). But hey, it's hypothetical.. just for fun. Just something to think about.
Last edited by smoothmoneyb on Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby smoothmoneyb on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:19 pm

FreeCandy44 wrote:


Gary Young is kind of a weirdo, but he was the original drummer for Pavement which makes him alright in my book. :wink:
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby GeoTank on Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:42 am

Rylan wrote::shock:
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby littlemoonboot on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:08 am

The thing is, even if the Pens had lost to the Islanders, Shero would have kept Bylsma anyway and we would have heard the same kool aid. At the very least the Pens got some playoff revenue out of this.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby smoothmoneyb on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:20 am

littlemoonboot wrote:The thing is, even if the Pens had lost to the Islanders, Shero would have kept Bylsma anyway and we would have heard the same kool aid. At the very least the Pens got some playoff revenue out of this.


Yeah that is a possibility. I had mentioned previously that DB keeping his job in the event that the Pens lost to the Islanders was definitely somewhat of an assumption. I certainly think it's a reasonable assumption though. Obviously we'll never know for sure. Had the fate of HCDB been the same either way (whether that was him losing his job or getting an extension), I might feel differently about it. The additional revenue is nice, and we got a couple more weeks of entertainment, and got the 1st round monkey of our backs, but we had to endure that Boston series. Not going to forget that one any time soon. In terms of having to say which would've been worse, losing to a first seed in the first round after seven games, or getting swept and basically completely shut down the way we did by Boston in the third round, it's a tough call. I honestly can't say which is worse.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby littlemoonboot on Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:41 am

I didn't sleep well last night so I kind of missed the part where you were giving the scenario that losing to the Isles would have meant Disco was dismissed, sorry about that.

My concern with the coaching staff is their inability to bring discipline and add that extra gear, particularly in the postseason. At the very least and to be fair, the inability of the players to really listen to them. If the Pens lost in a long, hard fought battle, I wouldn't feel so disturbed by it all. Seems to me the Pens will coast on talent and things won't get so bad that the coaching staff would get canned, at least not in the regular season. I'm not sure what it would take for the coaching staff to ever get replaced, to be honest. It's not that it's just their fault, it's on the players, too. I just wonder what it would take to get them to really play to their potential.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Pavement on Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:13 am

smoothmoneyb wrote:
FreeCandy44 wrote:


Gary Young is kind of a weirdo, but he was the original drummer for Pavement which makes him alright in my book. :wink:


:thumb:
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Rugbymuffin on Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:37 am

You cannot be scared of success.

Lose to the Islander's instead ? WTF is that all about ?

There is a group of fans letting out a collective cry about winning playoff series and now we are wishing to lose them ?

Take it from a Cardinals football fan, consistently winning hockey games in the regular season, and consistently making the playoffs is a good thing.

Do I want to win Stanley cups ? Sure! But, for Pete's sake there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Think of it this way, do we want to win a cup like the Florida Panthers ? Win one, and then toil as a bottom dweller year in and year out, all the while playing snooze fest hockey?

As a Cardinals fan ? Trust me, you don't. Games that are over before they begin and your team is on the short end of the stick, and that happening consistently is not fun.

Enjoy the wins, and enjoy annually watching the playoffs.

When the stars align the Pens will win one again.

Just gotta learn from mistakes, like next year not bringing in a bunch of slow, old, and over-hyped players that can't play the system. - We can call it the Iginla rule.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:50 am

Rugbymuffin wrote:
Think of it this way, do we want to win a cup like the Florida Panthers ? Win one, and then toil as a bottom dweller year in and year out, all the while playing snooze fest hockey?

:?:
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:55 am

TheGhostofGoulet wrote:
Rugbymuffin wrote:
Think of it this way, do we want to win a cup like the Florida Panthers ? Win one, and then toil as a bottom dweller year in and year out, all the while playing snooze fest hockey?

:?:

The Pens already won a cup like the Florida Panthers did. Remember 2008?
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Crankshaft on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:19 am

The Panthers didn't win a Stanley Cup. They were beat by the Avalanche.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:23 am

That immediate response completely ruins my post. :(
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby topshelf on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:24 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
TheGhostofGoulet wrote:
Rugbymuffin wrote:
Think of it this way, do we want to win a cup like the Florida Panthers ? Win one, and then toil as a bottom dweller year in and year out, all the while playing snooze fest hockey?

:?:

The Pens already won a cup like the Florida Panthers did. Remember 2008?


Image
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby TheGhostofGoulet on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:36 am

Idoit40fans wrote:That immediate response completely ruins my post. :(

I lol'd.
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby topshelf on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:38 am

TheGhostofGoulet wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:That immediate response completely ruins my post. :(

I lol'd.


Maybe the three of us are wrong...

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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby PghSkins on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:52 am

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby CERV96 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:54 am

LOL
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Knowing what you know now..

Postby IMFC on Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:07 am

In response to Roman numeral...section three, part two....of subset D...of the question...the answer is...the answer is... four?
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Kaizer on Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:07 pm

yes, i would love to give up the feeling of winning 2 playoff series, just so i can feel better about...what?
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:14 pm

IMFC wrote:In response to Roman numeral...section three, part two....of subset D...of the question...the answer is...the answer is... four?


I like the "Back to School" reference
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Re: Knowing what you know now..

Postby Mr. Colby on Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:27 pm

I came here to check the results and make sure everyone picked option 2... i'm baffled that 58% of people didn't. Unbelievable.
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