Jokinen

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Re: Jokinen

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:36 am

I like Jokinen, and while he is not fast he seemed to have a serious drop-off come the playoffs.

If we are talking about Sutter's line, I would like to see that line rebuilt as a true checking line in terms of personnel and role/matchups. I think that the Pens traded Staal for Sutter in part because they felt he would be more accepting of a checking role, yet never really deployed him as a matchup guy.

The addition of Jokinen to the 3rd line does nothing for that. I am certain that Kennedy is not the right wing on a true checking line. I am not even sure if Cooke is and whether he will be back anyway.

This is the problem I have with Bylsma coming back, because is he REALLY going to change anything in terms of the "we will ourscore you on each line of 1-3" mentality. The Pens have now 2 number 1 centers forever, so how does Bylsma pull them off in favor of Sutter when Tavares' or Giroux's line comes over the boards.

We want him to be more tactical within games, but the problem is that he always assumes that a power matchup of Crosby/Malkin against the other team's best is a win for us. I would like to see Sutter be a little more abrasive ala his father/uncles as well.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:38 am

When the trade was made I expected Jokinen to be scratched throughout much of the playoffs and then get bought out potentially. I have no problem with it. There appear to be players that fit better in their niche than Jokinen does...while it wouldn't be bad to have a Jokinen as a utility guy to hang around, at $2.1 million it's a luxury we don't need to have to afford.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby FLPensFan on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:38 am

Pitt87 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I expect Jokinen will be our compliance buyout.


How does eliminating a one-year contract for $2.1 million --especially for a guy that could legitimately help fill open spots on the roster next year -- help?

Because with Crosby healthy, they really don't have a need or space for Jokinen. Shero has said before that if Crosby wasn't injured, he probably doesn't make the deal for Jokinen. He needs to be a #2 center or somewhere in the top 6 to be utilized effectively. He's not going to supplant Crosby, Malkin, or Sutter, he's not a 4th line center, and he makes too much money to sit in the press box waiting for an injury. They will try to trade him for anything, or buy him out most likely.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:40 am

oliasphodel wrote:no more Adams please


Why all the hate for Adams?

The guy was second to only Brooks Orpik in short handed time on ice (roughly 20% of his TOTAL ice time was on the penalty kill) and he finished as a -1 in +/-. That's a higher +/- than Cooke, Kennedy, and Vitale, all who spent significantly less time on the PK AND than Adams, AND Cooke and Kennedy spent significantly more time in even strength situations.

Out of all of the players who played all 48 games, Adams has the 3rd lowest amount of time in the box (behind Dupuis and Sutter).

He finished 3rd on the team in hits, and finished only 12 hits behind Orpik. He was ahead of Kunitz, Cooke, Dupuis, Engelland, Letang, Kennedy, Sutter, Niskanen, etc., all who logged more ice time than him.

He had the 2nd highest number of blocked shots out of any forward (only 4 behind Matt Cooke).

He has a face-off percentage of 52.0%.

He is a leader on the team and a great locker room presence.

The guy is basically playing for peanuts ($625,000 last year).

Soooo... why all the hate? Is is because he doesn't score goals? I'm pretty sure that's not his role. Every team needs a Craig Adams, and if we let him walk, someone will scoop him up quickly.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:42 am

Adams played well again and has no affect on our cap calculations. I'd have no qualms about bringing him back.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:44 am

The only reason I don't want Adams brought back is that I think Vitale can be used in all situations that Adams can be used in and can be more effective than him in all of those situations. With Adams on the team, I don't think Vitale will be used in those situations.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby GSdrums87 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:45 am

topshelf wrote:
oliasphodel wrote:no more Adams please


Why all the hate for Adams?

The guy was second to only Brooks Orpik in short handed time on ice (roughly 20% of his TOTAL ice time was on the penalty kill) and he finished as a -1 in +/-. That's a higher +/- than Cooke, Kennedy, and Vitale, all who spent significantly less time on the PK AND than Adams, AND Cooke and Kennedy spent significantly more time in even strength situations.

Out of all of the players who played all 48 games, Adams has the 3rd lowest amount of time in the box (behind Dupuis and Sutter).

He finished 3rd on the team in hits, and finished only 12 hits behind Orpik. He was ahead of Kunitz, Cooke, Dupuis, Engelland, Letang, Kennedy, Sutter, Niskanen, etc., all who logged more ice time than him.

He had the 2nd highest number of blocked shots out of any forward (only 4 behind Matt Cooke).

He has a face-off percentage of 52.0%.

He is a leader on the team and a great locker room presence.

The guy is basically playing for peanuts ($625,000 last year).

Soooo... why all the hate? Is is because he doesn't score goals? I'm pretty sure that's not his role. Every team needs a Craig Adams, and if we let him walk, someone will scoop him up quickly.

:thumb:
You need a utility guy like Adams. People might not like what he does in the offensive zone or lack of footspeed, but the dude plays hard, and his value on the PK puts him in the lineup over anyone on the 4th line IMO.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby brwi on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:45 am

Jokinen is definitely a better winger than center.....any team scouting him already knew that. He took faceoffs in the left side of either zone as a winger for the Canes, but that doesn't mean the guy is a center. He also got waived a few times and is pretty much an erratic player that you can live with or live without.

He could be affordable, no doubt. He's just not that good of a hockey player and sucks as far as two-way play goes and always has. There are alternatives.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:46 am

Idoit40fans wrote:The only reason I don't want Adams brought back is that I think Vitale can be used in all situations that Adams can be used in and can be more effective than him in all of those situations. With Adams on the team, I don't think Vitale will be used in those situations.


I wish Vitale could move into Kennedy's role. $2 mil. per year for T.K. is too high.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:46 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I expect Jokinen will be our compliance buyout.


How does eliminating a one-year contract for $2.1 million --especially for a guy that could legitimately help fill open spots on the roster next year -- help?

Because with Crosby healthy, they really don't have a need or space for Jokinen. Shero has said before that if Crosby wasn't injured, he probably doesn't make the deal for Jokinen. He needs to be a #2 center or somewhere in the top 6 to be utilized effectively. He's not going to supplant Crosby, Malkin, or Sutter, he's not a 4th line center, and he makes too much money to sit in the press box waiting for an injury. They will try to trade him for anything, or buy him out most likely.


In a season where we likely must replace some function of Cooke/TK/Dupuis, and the HOPEFUL non-signing of Adams, I think a guy that can play well in multiple scenarios, kill penalties, win faceoffs and chip in offensively is worth $2million next year. Buying him out saves very little since he would have to be replaced.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby joopen on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:47 am

topshelf wrote:
oliasphodel wrote:no more Adams please


Why all the hate for Adams?

The guy was second to only Brooks Orpik in short handed time on ice (roughly 20% of his TOTAL ice time was on the penalty kill) and he finished as a -1 in +/-. That's a higher +/- than Cooke, Kennedy, and Vitale, all who spent significantly less time on the PK AND than Adams, AND Cooke and Kennedy spent significantly more time in even strength situations.

Out of all of the players who played all 48 games, Adams has the 3rd lowest amount of time in the box (behind Dupuis and Sutter).

He finished 3rd on the team in hits, and finished only 12 hits behind Orpik. He was ahead of Kunitz, Cooke, Dupuis, Engelland, Letang, Kennedy, Sutter, Niskanen, etc., all who logged more ice time than him.

He had the 2nd highest number of blocked shots out of any forward (only 4 behind Matt Cooke).

He has a face-off percentage of 52.0%.

He is a leader on the team and a great locker room presence.

The guy is basically playing for peanuts ($625,000 last year).

Soooo... why all the hate? Is is because he doesn't score goals? I'm pretty sure that's not his role. Every team needs a Craig Adams, and if we let him walk, someone will scoop him up quickly.


You do know you don't accumulate -'s on the pk right?
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Re: Jokinen

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:48 am

joopen wrote:
topshelf wrote:
oliasphodel wrote:no more Adams please


Why all the hate for Adams?

The guy was second to only Brooks Orpik in short handed time on ice (roughly 20% of his TOTAL ice time was on the penalty kill) and he finished as a -1 in +/-. That's a higher +/- than Cooke, Kennedy, and Vitale, all who spent significantly less time on the PK AND than Adams, AND Cooke and Kennedy spent significantly more time in even strength situations.

Out of all of the players who played all 48 games, Adams has the 3rd lowest amount of time in the box (behind Dupuis and Sutter).

He finished 3rd on the team in hits, and finished only 12 hits behind Orpik. He was ahead of Kunitz, Cooke, Dupuis, Engelland, Letang, Kennedy, Sutter, Niskanen, etc., all who logged more ice time than him.

He had the 2nd highest number of blocked shots out of any forward (only 4 behind Matt Cooke).

He has a face-off percentage of 52.0%.

He is a leader on the team and a great locker room presence.

The guy is basically playing for peanuts ($625,000 last year).

Soooo... why all the hate? Is is because he doesn't score goals? I'm pretty sure that's not his role. Every team needs a Craig Adams, and if we let him walk, someone will scoop him up quickly.


You do know you don't accumulate -'s on the pk right?


Oops... You're right. Even so, it still doesn't change the fact that Adams is a integral part of the team and, for his price, is very valuable.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby pfim on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:50 am

Either Vitale or Adams could play on the wing, it only seems to be an either/or proposition in Bylsma's mind due to his refusal to give Vitale a greater role.

I don't know that letting a two-time Stanley Cup winner who plays his heart out and is an exceptional penalty killer is really that great of an idea. Especially given that he is paid near the league minimum. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:53 am

pfim wrote:Either Vitale or Adams could play on the wing, it only seems to be an either/or proposition in Bylsma's mind due to his refusal to give Vitale a greater role.

I don't know that letting a two-time Stanley Cup winner who plays his heart out and is an exceptional penalty killer is really that great of an idea. Especially given that he is paid near the league minimum. Seems like a no-brainer to me.


:thumb:
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Re: Jokinen

Postby pcm on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:01 am

Agreed about Vitale taking Adams' role on this team. I liked what Adams brought in the playoffs, but I'd rather groom a young guy who has a higher potential impact on a game, especially 5 on 5.

Jokinen is a decent utility guy, but I also agree about buying him out, or traded if possible. Jeffrey can be that utility guy for $1.5m in savings. An all around decent LW with an offensive touch, who can take faceoffs and fill in at center / pK where needed.

I'd like to see Kennedy (rights), Niskanen, and Glass traded for some young bottom line forwards. Though Glass is probably not going anywhere.

Maybe sign a guy like G. Latendresse (ufa), but I really don't want Shero to backfill the roster with vets again. Having one guy like Morrow around is fine, but need some spots open for competition.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:01 am

we don't have anyone to replace adams, so whatever. he's lousy at even strength and led the forwards in ice time on a lousy PK unit for most of the year. but there was improvement in the playoffs. so again, whatever.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby pcm on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:04 am

Kennedy played great... on the 4th line. If he took a 50% pay cut and Blsyma promised not to use him on the 3rd line except in emergencies, then I'd actually love to have him back.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:07 am

shmenguin wrote:we don't have anyone to replace adams, so whatever. he's lousy at even strength and led the forwards in ice time on a lousy PK unit for most of the year. but there was improvement in the playoffs. so again, whatever.


In years past, we had one of the best PK's in the league, and Adams was a big part of that. There were a lot of personnel changes this year compared to year's past (Staal and Michalek out, Sutter and Glass in), and it took them a while to gel. I think they found their rhythm by playoff time.

So, whatever.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby Gaucho on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:14 am

What makes people think Vitale could replace Adams? Vitale, imho, will never even come close to being as defensively sound as Adams. He'll be 28 when next season starts, it's not like his ceiling is much higher than what he is now.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby Crankshaft on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:19 am

Why does Vitale have to replace Adams? Can't they both play on the 4th line? Adams plays RW and Vitale at center?

RE: Jokinen. I think some team would take him for a pick. A Florida/Calgary type team that needs a stop-gap player in their top-6 for the season. With the Canes picking up a portion of the salary, his price tag is not so bad now.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:19 am

it's pretty astonishing that adams was that high in hits, since you could probably count the ones you actually noticed on one hand. though this was another thing he improved at in the playoffs. seems like he held a lot back during the season.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby TheHammer24 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:22 am

Pitt87 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:I expect Jokinen will be our compliance buyout.


How does eliminating a one-year contract for $2.1 million --especially for a guy that could legitimately help fill open spots on the roster next year -- help?

Because with Crosby healthy, they really don't have a need or space for Jokinen. Shero has said before that if Crosby wasn't injured, he probably doesn't make the deal for Jokinen. He needs to be a #2 center or somewhere in the top 6 to be utilized effectively. He's not going to supplant Crosby, Malkin, or Sutter, he's not a 4th line center, and he makes too much money to sit in the press box waiting for an injury. They will try to trade him for anything, or buy him out most likely.


In a season where we likely must replace some function of Cooke/TK/Dupuis, and the HOPEFUL non-signing of Adams, I think a guy that can play well in multiple scenarios, kill penalties, win faceoffs and chip in offensively is worth $2million next year. Buying him out saves very little since he would have to be replaced.


He's worth $2 million a year, but not on our team. We have Beau Bennett o play top 6 at $900,000. When you're brushed against the cap the luxury of a $2 million forward that will spend considerable amounts of time in the press box is not possible.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby Pitt87 on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:22 am

shmenguin wrote:we don't have anyone to replace adams, so whatever. he's lousy at even strength and led the forwards in ice time on a lousy PK unit for most of the year. but there was improvement in the playoffs. so again, whatever.


We don't have to replace Adams' role, we have to replace his minutes. It will not be hard to do, but since votes of confidence are what this team is all about, I assume he's due a raise.... :roll:
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Re: Jokinen

Postby topshelf on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:23 am

shmenguin wrote:it's pretty astonishing that adams was that high in hits, since you could probably count the ones you actually noticed on one hand. though this was another thing he improved at in the playoffs. seems like he held a lot back during the season.


T. Glass - 125
B. Orpik - 119
C. Adams - 107

That'll take a big hand.
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Re: Jokinen

Postby shmenguin on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:26 am

topshelf wrote:
shmenguin wrote:it's pretty astonishing that adams was that high in hits, since you could probably count the ones you actually noticed on one hand. though this was another thing he improved at in the playoffs. seems like he held a lot back during the season.


T. Glass - 125
B. Orpik - 119
C. Adams - 107

That'll take a big hand.


read again
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