Free agency

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Free agency

Postby pcm on Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:29 am

The Pens have 10 forwards, 6 defenseman, 2 goalies signed (or restricted).

They need: a 3rd line RW, 4th line RW, and probably a 2nd/3rd line LW. Unless they want to go with Jokinen & Jeffrey as their 2nd and 3rd line LWs.

They've got just under $6m in cap space, after signing Jeffrey, Bortuzzo, and assuming one of Dumoulin or Harrington makes the team.

4th line RW: Adams, Yip, Armstrong. (Or could go with Zolciernyzyks or Uher).
@ 600k

3rd/1st line RW: Iginla, Bouchard, Brunner, Larose, Briere, Dupuis
@ 2-4m

2nd/3rd LW: Morrow, MacArthur, Cooke, Stahlberg, Penner
@ 2-4m

As I'd like to see the team get younger, I wouldn't mind going after one of MacArthur, Stahlberg, or Brunner if they make it to FA. Other possibilities include trading Niskanen for a young 3rd liner (or Kulemin...?) and axing Jokinen to free up cap space.
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Re: Free agency

Postby tunez33 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:53 am

i would love to see stahlberg, but i think he maybe destined for Detroit, plus he complained about not getting pp time in chicago, he will never see a pp in pitt so that may not make him to happy. Also he doesn't kill penalties or use his size as well as he should. that being said depending on what else we did he wouldn't be to bad on our 3rd line.
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Re: Free agency

Postby GSdrums87 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:54 am

pcm wrote:The Pens have 10 forwards, 6 defenseman, 2 goalies signed (or restricted).

They need: a 3rd line RW, 4th line RW, and probably a 2nd/3rd line LW. Unless they want to go with Jokinen & Jeffrey as their 2nd and 3rd line LWs.

They've got just under $6m in cap space, after signing Jeffrey, Bortuzzo, and assuming one of Dumoulin or Harrington makes the team.

4th line RW: Adams, Yip, Armstrong. (Or could go with Zolciernyzyks or Uher).
@ 600k

3rd/1st line RW: Iginla, Bouchard, Brunner, Larose, Briere, Dupuis
@ 2-4m

2nd/3rd LW: Morrow, MacArthur, Cooke, Stahlberg, Penner
@ 2-4m

As I'd like to see the team get younger, I wouldn't mind going after one of MacArthur, Stahlberg, or Brunner if they make it to FA. Other possibilities include trading Niskanen for a young 3rd liner (or Kulemin...?) and axing Jokinen to free up cap space.

At his price, Jokinen is a good deal this year given his versatility and the inevitable injury to Sid or Geno.
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Re: Free agency

Postby the riddler on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:05 pm

Two potential UFAs available that are interesting are Mason Raymond and Eric Nystrom. Both are third line guys that could fill the void left by Cooke. Raymond may be too expensive but Nystrom seems like a perfect fit. He plays against other teams top players and logs a ton of PK time.
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Re: Free agency

Postby pcm on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:14 pm

Why trade away Kennedy to go out and get Raymond?
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Re: Free agency

Postby the riddler on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:21 pm

pcm wrote:Why trade away Kennedy to go out and get Raymond?


Raymond offers something Kennedy didn't, he can play on the PK. He hasn't been the same player since his back injury but he still has a lot of speed. He probably will get overpaid but given their need for 3rd line guys, it's worth mentioning him.
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Re: Free agency

Postby no name on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:55 pm

MacAuthor and Jokenin have that ability to play a top 6 or bottom 6 role.

MacAuthor reminds me of Kunitz and could be effective with Malkin or Sid and be slighly cheeper than Dupuis.

I will be sad to see Dupuis go but he deserves to go out and get as much loot as possible, he earned it.
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Re: Free agency

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:44 pm

I am in the "dump Jokinen" camp. Just like Tyler Kennedy, I think he is too expensive for his role. I fail to see having Jokinen as an everyday top-6 player being anything but a downgrade of the top 6. I think he is fine when there is an injury and can step in, but in an 82 game season, I don't think he is the answer. And as a fill in top 6, he is too expensive. On the bottom 6, he is not the type of player I want. Even further, if you decided you could trade Jokinen and his 2.1mil and be able to sign Dupuis, would you do it? I would in a hearbeat.

The Pens need to get more skilled, physical players, in both the top and bottom lines. If we are going to lose Dupuis, then I want to take a run at a Clarkson, Penner, (i know these next guys aren't free agents) Lucic, Bobby Ryan....type of forward. The Pens have nobody in their top 6 who has size and toughness. Kunitz is only 6 foot, Neal is 6'2".

Look at the bottom 6. Again, I like Cooke and would like to see the Pens resign him. Then again, instead of paying the 5'11" Cooke 1.8+ mil a season, replace him with the 6'1" Nystrom for a little cheaper. To me, our 3rd line should be a defensive line, and 4th line should be defensive but bigger in size, hitting the opponent and wearing them down.

The Pens top 4 guys in terms of height are Malkin, Sutter, Bennett, and Neal. All 6'2" or 6'3". None of those guys are an imposing physical presence. The fact then none of them is on the 4th line is even more scary....4th line is 6 foot Adams, 6'1" Glass, 5'11" Vitale and Zolnierczyk. Pickup Nystrom, pickup 6'4" Jerred Smithson from Edmonton, a good PK, faceoff guy who will hit.

The Pens lost to Philly 2 years ago just by imploding, but Philly is also a physical team with guys that have some size. Same with Boston with guys like Lucic and Chara. Pens need to be able to counter that.
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Re: Free agency

Postby largegarlic on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:00 pm

FLPensFan wrote:I am in the "dump Jokinen" camp. Just like Tyler Kennedy, I think he is too expensive for his role. I fail to see having Jokinen as an everyday top-6 player being anything but a downgrade of the top 6. I think he is fine when there is an injury and can step in, but in an 82 game season, I don't think he is the answer. And as a fill in top 6, he is too expensive. On the bottom 6, he is not the type of player I want. Even further, if you decided you could trade Jokinen and his 2.1mil and be able to sign Dupuis, would you do it? I would in a hearbeat.

The Pens need to get more skilled, physical players, in both the top and bottom lines. If we are going to lose Dupuis, then I want to take a run at a Clarkson, Penner, (i know these next guys aren't free agents) Lucic, Bobby Ryan....type of forward. The Pens have nobody in their top 6 who has size and toughness. Kunitz is only 6 foot, Neal is 6'2".

Look at the bottom 6. Again, I like Cooke and would like to see the Pens resign him. Then again, instead of paying the 5'11" Cooke 1.8+ mil a season, replace him with the 6'1" Nystrom for a little cheaper. To me, our 3rd line should be a defensive line, and 4th line should be defensive but bigger in size, hitting the opponent and wearing them down.

The Pens top 4 guys in terms of height are Malkin, Sutter, Bennett, and Neal. All 6'2" or 6'3". None of those guys are an imposing physical presence. The fact then none of them is on the 4th line is even more scary....4th line is 6 foot Adams, 6'1" Glass, 5'11" Vitale and Zolnierczyk. Pickup Nystrom, pickup 6'4" Jerred Smithson from Edmonton, a good PK, faceoff guy who will hit.

The Pens lost to Philly 2 years ago just by imploding, but Philly is also a physical team with guys that have some size. Same with Boston with guys like Lucic and Chara. Pens need to be able to counter that.


I would have agreed with this line of thinking prior to the Cup finals (and Shero was clearly thinking this way at the deadline bringing in Morrow, Iginla, and Murray). However, who did Chicago have who was a real physical presence? Bickell? Shaw? Those two are about the only ones I can think of. I'm not saying this leads to an easy fix, but now I'm just unsure if lack of physicality is the/a real problem for the Pens.
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Re: Free agency

Postby pcm on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:40 pm

Yeah, physicality in the normal sense of it is not what this team needs. We outhit Boston, and they just kept on going. What we lacked is the kind of willingness to go to the net that Chicago displayed in scoring soundly against Boston. This is why Bennett's absence or low minutes pissed me off. He drove the net in every game he played. But he was one of the few. Morrow too, but he was playing with Sutter, so his chances in the offensive zone were next to nothing.

I want guys that play hard, not just physical. Kunitz is a physical perimeter player, if that makes sense. Its not hits we need. It's a guy willing to stand in front of the net and take a beating, cause havoc, and give push back.

I haven't watched enough of MacArthur to say if he's got it, and would be worth the $4m he's gonna make. Penner, no thanks. I definitely wouldn't mind Morrow back, but aBlysma will probably misuse him again. Honestly though the best options are probably via trade.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Beveridge on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:32 pm

Jussi for one year at 2.1 is worth it. You know both Sid and Geno are going to miss time. He can fill in.
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Re: Free agency

Postby wondermoose on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:39 pm

Need some Bickells and Bollands cause we ain't got none. There's no rough and tumble on the roster, in the pipeline, or the prospect pool so finding some players that make the crease their kitchen would be fantastic.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:48 pm

FLPensFan wrote:I am in the "dump Jokinen" camp. Just like Tyler Kennedy, I think he is too expensive for his role.


I need a qualified explanation about why $2.1mil is too much for a guy that can play the wing, win faceoffs, kill penalties, and find the net with some regularity. Its just mystifying, unless you just don't like the guy...
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Re: Free agency

Postby penny lane on Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:05 pm

wondermoose wrote:Need some Bickells and Bollands cause we ain't got none. There's no rough and tumble on the roster, in the pipeline, or the prospect pool so finding some players that make the crease their kitchen would be fantastic.

:thumb: truth X a 4 game sweep.
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Re: Free agency

Postby joker10277 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:27 pm

I wonder how much stalberg will get as a free agent, I'd like to see what he could do on Malkins LW. Forget about cooke and adams, get some younger guys for the bottom two lines........
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Re: Free agency

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:31 pm

I would love Stalberg on this team. However, just like Clutterbuck, it won't happen.
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Re: Free agency

Postby Shakko on Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:03 pm

pcm wrote:Yeah, physicality in the normal sense of it is not what this team needs. We outhit Boston, and they just kept on going. What we lacked is the kind of willingness to go to the net that Chicago displayed in scoring soundly against Boston. This is why Bennett's absence or low minutes pissed me off. He drove the net in every game he played. But he was one of the few. Morrow too, but he was playing with Sutter, so his chances in the offensive zone were next to nothing.

I want guys that play hard, not just physical. Kunitz is a physical perimeter player, if that makes sense. Its not hits we need. It's a guy willing to stand in front of the net and take a beating, cause havoc, and give push back.

I haven't watched enough of MacArthur to say if he's got it, and would be worth the $4m he's gonna make. Penner, no thanks. I definitely wouldn't mind Morrow back, but aBlysma will probably misuse him again. Honestly though the best options are probably via trade.


I think that this analysis is spot on. The ice was sooooo bad in the Boston series, that we needed folks that had the ability to get to the net. Instead, we stayed on the perimeter, and played a "skill game" unwilling to get the dirty goals.

I think that Dupuis also tends to play on the perimeter, so I don't have a huge issue with him getting a pay-day elsewhere. If he is willing to stay at less than $3m/year, then fine.

I think that we need a couple players like Morrow (only 5-7 years younger). I don't watch enough non-Pens hockey to know who those players are, but I hope that they are out there in the FA market.
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Re: Free agency

Postby offsides on Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:13 pm

wondermoose wrote:Need some Bickells and Bollands cause we ain't got none. There's no rough and tumble on the roster, in the pipeline, or the prospect pool so finding some players that make the crease their kitchen would be fantastic.


Yeah, I agree, but I'm not sure we can afford anyone of decent talent to go to the net.
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Re: Free agency

Postby KG on Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:19 pm

So what's the deal now? free agents and teams are now able to speak to each other, but can't sign until Friday July 5th?

If so, lets hear some rumors of who the Pens spoke too, today...
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Re: Free agency

Postby pens2005 on Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:35 pm

I want Clarkson on this roster in a bad way. Won't happen, but I'd love to see it.
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Re: Free agency

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:26 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I am in the "dump Jokinen" camp. Just like Tyler Kennedy, I think he is too expensive for his role.


I need a qualified explanation about why $2.1mil is too much for a guy that can play the wing, win faceoffs, kill penalties, and find the net with some regularity. Its just mystifying, unless you just don't like the guy...


The salaries of Malkin, Crosby, and Letang is one reason. The Pens need to be more cost effective. Look, I liked the pickup of Jokinen when the Pens got him, was excited when he was doing well, but I don't think he is top 6 material, is too expensive for a bottom 6 role, and too expensive to sit in the press box waiting for an injury.

The Pens spent all season trying to find a winger for Malkin. Nobody really clicked there enough to stay. Now we lose Dupuis, and you are going to have the same situation on both of your top 2 lines? Beau Bennett is going to get a shot, and I like what I've seen from him. I think he can come close to replacing Dupuis production, but that is a guess and a gamble at this point. I am in the mindset that going in with Bennett and Jokinen in your top 6 is a downgrade from last year.

Remember, Jokinen was placed on waivers by Carolina before the Pens got him in a trade, in which Carolina paid part of his salary. Paid to get him off the team. Look at his numbers, they've gone down every year since he scored 30 in 09-10.

Below is something I'd like to see, which I don't think is a far-fetched roster at all. I dumped Vitale and Jokinen for whatever we could get. Pens add 3 players with size and toughness. Your bottom 2 line players are both excellent defensive forwards, PKs, Smithson is excellent on faceoffs. With the changes I made, I dumped 2.65mil in salary (Jokinen and Vitale) and there isn't much wiggle room left. Things are going to be tight next year for sure.

FORWARDS
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / David Clarkson ($4.000m)
Matt Cooke ($1.900m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Eric Nystrom ($1.250m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m) / Craig Adams ($0.750m)
Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.660m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Brooks Orpik ($3.750m)
Kris Letang ($3.500m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.300m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)
Brian Dumoulin ($0.900m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,095,833; BONUSES: $85,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $289,167
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Re: Free agency

Postby ziggo on Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:43 am

wondermoose wrote:
Need some Bickells and Bollands cause we ain't got none. There's no rough and tumble on the roster, in the pipeline, or the prospect pool so finding some players that make the crease their kitchen would be fantastic


Add Shaw's to that list too. We need more, in front net presence, both offensively and defencively. Especially against the Bostons and Chicago types.
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Re: Free agency

Postby ville5 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:09 am

La10dress would come cheap. If he can stay healthy, he'd be a steal.
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Re: Free agency

Postby ffemtreed on Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:06 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / David Clarkson ($4.000m)
7


Clarkson is going to get way north of 4M. There are a lot of dumb GM's out there that will pay, esp since being he is considered one of the best of this UFA class.
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Re: Free agency

Postby DontToewsMeBro on Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:49 am

Beveridge wrote:Jussi for one year at 2.1 is worth it. You know both Sid and Geno are going to miss time. He can fill in.


Yeah, how is a guy who can play virtually every forward position on the ice over-valued at $2M? Actually, the combo of Fleury/Jokinen will get you a lot of extra points from the shootout alone.

A better question--why do we think $2M is a lot of money...? A lot of scrubs make that much, guys who aren't 2 years removed from a 60+ pt., 30 goal scoring campaign. We could do a lot worse than Jokinen in free agency.
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