Letang Extended; 8 years 7.25mm, Limited no trade (15 teams)

[MRandall25]

So it's Bylsma's fault Shero hasn't been able to draft forwards who can crack this lineup?

Got it.

[Pavel Bure]

Wait a second? All those guys I named were fully developed players when DB took over? Okay got it. Many of those were developed so badly they were able to be traded for pieces this team needed. Man DB really dropped the ball with those guys. DB being bad at developing talent/prospects is such a misnomer.

[bhaw]

So it's Bylsma's fault Shero hasn't been able to draft forwards who can crack this lineup?

Got it.

No fourth liners out there at all, eh?

Sure. I'm shocked WBS does so well with players that shouldn't be playing hockey. What has db done with what he does have? Besides bench them and clearly never communicate with them if you look at what departing players have said.

So you are saying there is no evidence DB can develop players... Then what's with the Tangradi BS remarks to try and dispute that? Oh right... That's what you do. Flag me when you have substance to add to this. You're happy regardless of his inability to develop people.

[Henry Hank]

DB being bad at developing talent/prospects is such a misnomer.

Totally agree. There are plenty of things to criticize him for but this is something that's taking on a life of its own without any good basis.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way he's brought up Bennett and Despres.

[bhaw]

Wait a second? All those guys I named were fully developed players when DB took over? Okay got it. Many of those were developed so badly they were able to be traded for pieces this team needed. Man DB really dropped the ball with those guys. DB being bad at developing talent/prospects is such a misnomer.

There were no prospects on that list, minus Bennett. You named Letang, who was full time. That's like saying Olczyk developed Crosby. Maybe that's what you are saying?

[MRandall25]

Man bhaw, Claude Noel must be doing such a good job of developing Tangradi....

Oh wait. He's an empty sweater there too.

Why do you care so much what I think about it? Don't take it so personally that someone out there disagrees with you. The hostility isn't needed.

[bhaw]

DB being bad at developing talent/prospects is such a misnomer.

Totally agree. There are plenty of things to criticize him for but this is something that's taking on a life of its own without any good basis.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way he's brought up Bennett and Despres.

Since you actually can provide real examples instead of straw men... Who do you see as a prospect he has developed into a useful full time player?

[MRandall25]

Sorry that I can enjoy hockey for hockey, I guess. Jesus Christ. You act like I disrespected your entire family because I disagree with you on one thing.

[bhaw]

Man bhaw, Claude Noel must be doing such a good job of developing Tangradi....

Oh wait. He's an empty sweater there too.

Why do you care so much what I think about it? Don't take it so personally that someone out there disagrees with you. The hostility isn't needed.

I think i said Tangradi sucks...

Provide substance instead of taking up message board posts. All you do is say people are wrong but you never provide anything to back that up. You still haven't to this topic.

[MRandall25]

But just for my understanding:

What forward prospects are you referring to? In the past 5 years, Tangradi has been the only true "prospect" who has actually made it to the NHL level (and didn't translate to the NHL game in 2 cities).

[Pavel Bure]

Wait a second? All those guys I named were fully developed players when DB took over? Okay got it. Many of those were developed so badly they were able to be traded for pieces this team needed. Man DB really dropped the ball with those guys. DB being bad at developing talent/prospects is such a misnomer.

There were no prospects on that list, minus Bennett. You named Letang, who was full time. That's like saying Olczyk developed Crosby. Maybe that's what you are saying?

It was Letang's 2nd year in the league when DB took over. Under DB he's developed into a Norris caliber d-man. I guess he did that all on his own though. I named you young guys that developed under DB and that most (minus Johnson) are NHL players that started with DB as their coach. I'm not sure what you want from the guy or who these mystical "prospects" are that he screwed up but man you really have an ax to grind here for some reason and have little to back up your assertion.

[MRandall25]

Man bhaw, Claude Noel must be doing such a good job of developing Tangradi....

Oh wait. He's an empty sweater there too.

Why do you care so much what I think about it? Don't take it so personally that someone out there disagrees with you. The hostility isn't needed.

I think i said Tangradi sucks...

Provide substance instead of taking up message board posts. All you do is say people are wrong but you never provide anything to back that up. You still haven't to this topic.

Because all you're doing is complaining about what I'm saying.

[Froggy]

bylsma is guilty of failing to polish turds. the combination of late first round draft picks, coupled with immediate superstars with no need for development gives the illusion that our staff is failing in that regard.

[MRandall25]

bylsma is guilty of failing to polish turds. the combination of late first round draft picks, coupled with immediate superstars with no need for development gives the illusion that our staff is failing in that regard.

Be careful, you might get called out for straw man.

[bhaw]

Sorry that I can enjoy hockey for hockey, I guess. Jesus Christ. You act like I disrespected your entire family because I disagree with you on one thing.

So why get involved with people who want to talk hockey if your stance is everything is good and fun? I enjoy hockey for hockey too. However when discussing it, I provide more than just straw men and sarcastic contrarian remarks.

[Pavel Bure]

bylsma is guilty of failing to polish turds. the combination of late first round draft picks, coupled with immediate superstars with no need for development gives the illusion that our staff is failing in that regard.

Myth Busters proved you can polish a turd therefore DB is a failure at rubbing poop.

[bhaw]

Man bhaw, Claude Noel must be doing such a good job of developing Tangradi....

Oh wait. He's an empty sweater there too.

Why do you care so much what I think about it? Don't take it so personally that someone out there disagrees with you. The hostility isn't needed.

I think i said Tangradi sucks...

Provide substance instead of taking up message board posts. All you do is say people are wrong but you never provide anything to back that up. You still haven't to this topic.

Because all you're doing is complaining about what I'm saying.

Sure. If that's what you read this all makes sense.

[Pavel Bure]

I'm sorry bhaw you're usually pretty on point with opinions and what not but you're way off on this one and can only provide minor anecdotal evidence of young guys that ha a hard time cracking the line up on a team with few spots for them to step in to. There might be some discussion here if you had any hard evidence that DB failed with a player which is why I mentioned Latendresse earlier who IMO is/was the poster child for improperly developed players.

[MRandall25]

Sorry that I can enjoy hockey for hockey, I guess. Jesus Christ. You act like I disrespected your entire family because I disagree with you on one thing.

So why get involved with people who want to talk hockey if your stance is everything is good and fun? I enjoy hockey for hockey too. However when discussing it, I provide more than just straw men and sarcastic contrarian remarks.

Why should I bother talking hockey when I just get blasted for what I say regardless of what I say?

Bylsma can't win with anyone. Again, i point to Tangradi. People got all mad because Bylsma wasn't playing him on Geno's line. Then, when he did get time, he brought the entire line down.

Then he struggled on the 4th line, and the rest is history.

Again, because you've failed to answer it, how is DB supposed to develop forward prospects if said forward prospects can't get out of the AHL? It's not like we've been gifted young 4th liners.

[MRandall25]

And again, who are these prospects that he has "failed to develop"?

What constitutes "failing to develop"? Not making the NHL lineup?

Perhaps we'd be on the same page if you clarified instead of complaining about my opinion.

[joker10277]

bylsma is guilty of failing to polish turds. the combination of late first round draft picks, coupled with immediate superstars with no need for development gives the illusion that our staff is failing in that regard.

You may be right that disco hasn't had anyone to develop, but I think your wrong about the second part and if you need proof just ask the Chicago Blackhawks. They've won two cups and made big trades immediately following those wins. They can do that because, they know how to draft and develop their own players, RS could learn something from them.

[Froggy]

bylsma is guilty of failing to polish turds. the combination of late first round draft picks, coupled with immediate superstars with no need for development gives the illusion that our staff is failing in that regard.

You may be right that disco hasn't had anyone to develop, but I think your wrong about the second part and if you need proof just ask the Chicago Blackhawks. They've won two cups and made big trades immediately following those wins. They can do that because, they know how to draft and develop their own players, RS could learn something from them.

but chicago also had the core of Toews, Kane, and Sharp... young superstars who jumped straight to the NHL without needing seasoning in the minors

[bhaw]

But just for my understanding:

What forward prospects are you referring to? In the past 5 years, Tangradi has been the only true "prospect" who has actually made it to the NHL level (and didn't translate to the NHL game in 2 cities).

Prospect doesn't just mean a top 6 player, right? Or a top pairing dman, right?

Why can't Vitale hold down the fourth line center full time? He has all the necessary skills to play 10 minutes, doesn't he? Why did TK regress this year? Why can't any of Despres, Bortuzzo, or Engelland hold down the 6 spot full time? Why when players leave are they saying they don't know why they can't get into the lineup? Are the coaches even telling them what's going wrong? We're not looking for another Sid. We're looking for someone to fill a fourth line or bottom d role. We have guys with those tools but none of them can seem to fill it full time or look like they SHOULD fill it full time. And when they do, they are promptly removed from the lineup.

We aren't stocked with top 6 talent. That's not in question. But we have plenty of bottom end entry level guys who should be able to fill roles who aren't.

[Pavel Bure]

Wait a second. Your whole argument is that DB isn't developing talent because he's not creating 4th line players that are a dime a dozen every free agency? I don't get it.

Additionally I hope you didn't forget that DB was the HC of WBS before he became Pens HC and the Pens had quite the influx of talent from the minors during that time. Wouldn't that point to DB developing talent quite nicely?

Even further those guys that said they weren't sure what was going on here were able to step in on their newer teams with lower expectations and play full time minutes. Wouldn't that also point to DB developing them properly?

All evidence points to DB being quite good at developing young talent.

[Froggy]

yeah, you can either pay a rookie 500k to do a job and cross your fingers, or a vet 500k to do a job and have a documented sample size. TOTAL FAIL!