So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

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So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:29 am

Maybe even all 4. So, we took our shot and missed. Bad deals? In hindsight, maybe. But better to have loaded the gun and missed, then to not have taken a shot at all. To me sorta like:

Better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.


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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:34 am

Eh, the deals still made sense at the time. Murray was a touch of an overpayment, but the entire board would have traded TK and a 2nd for [anything] so what did we really lose there...Iginla was a steal, Jokinen was actual theft, and we paid a pretty price for Morrow, but he was the best acquisition we made in terms of performance vs. expectation.

Like the Hossa deal five years ago, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You can criticize every deal in hindsight, but these were the right moves at the time. The window was wide-open, we had the cap space, we had the assets, we had a chance to win the Stanley Cup and we took that chance. It didn't work, but I'd rather try with this incredible roster we have than sit on our hands and hope Tanner Glass and Deryk Engelland are ready for the bright lights of the playoffs...

Not to mention, the organization felt it was dealing with bonus bucks from the Staal trade. Staal was going to leave, but on the way out he left us with a third line center, a potential #4 d-man and a top-10 draft pick. That's total bonus round. Dumoulin is a "2nd round pick" quality d-man, so you exchanged that for Murray. Pouliot is a bonus future PMD, so you moved Morrow. Iginla and Jokinen, again, were just stolen from their respective clubs...

I think Shero has done a bang-up job as GM to date.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby slipshod on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:38 am

mikey287 wrote:Eh, the deals still made sense at the time. Murray was a touch of an overpayment, but the entire board would have traded TK and a 2nd for [anything] so what did we really lose there...Iginla was a steal, Jokinen was actual theft, and we paid a pretty price for Morrow, but he was the best acquisition we made in terms of performance vs. expectation.

Like the Hossa deal five years ago, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You can criticize every deal in hindsight, but these were the right moves at the time. The window was wide-open, we had the cap space, we had the assets, we had a chance to win the Stanley Cup and we took that chance. It didn't work, but I'd rather try with this incredible roster we have than sit on our hands and hope Tanner Glass and Deryk Engelland are ready for the bright lights of the playoffs...

Not to mention, the organization felt it was deal with bonus bucks from the Staal trade. Staal was going to leave, but on the way out he left us with a third line center, a potential #4 d-man and a top-10 draft pick. That's total bonus round. Dumoulin is a "2nd round pick" quality d-man, so you exchanged that for Murray. Pouliot is a bonus future PMD, so you moved Morrow. Iginla and Jokinen, again, were just stolen from their respective clubs...

I think Shero has done a bang-up job as GM to date.


I agree. I would rather see bold attempts to win it all vs. doing nothing and hoping.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby pfim on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:39 am

The Morrow deal was probably the most costly, but he was the best player of the four we acquired. It hurts the most now, I think. Even if they were down on Joe Morrow, he would have been a cost effective option for the beginning of next season.

The worst thing about the Jokinen deal is his cap number is still on our books for next season.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby headh on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:42 am

Why is the mindset in hockey that a team needs to make a trade in order to be perceived as trying or being bold? What about the idea of dancing with the players who brought you? The Penguin Team was pretty darn good before adding in new players.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:45 am

Hindsight is irrelevant.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby pfim on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:46 am

Gaucho wrote:Hindsight is irrelevant.


Perhaps, but there wasn't joyous agreement when at least 3 of those deals happened.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby Gaucho on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:48 am

pfim wrote:
Gaucho wrote:Hindsight is irrelevant.


Perhaps, but there wasn't joyous agreement when at least 3 of those deals happened.


And that's fine.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:50 am

Yeah, i'm pretty sure a large portion of people had the immediate reaction of "this will be worth it if the cup comes to Pittsburgh".
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:51 am

headh wrote:Why is the mindset in hockey that a team needs to make a trade in order to be perceived as trying or being bold? What about the idea of dancing with the players who brought you? The Penguin Team was pretty darn good before adding in new players.


They were, and then we added even better players! It made sense. Bennett, a rookie, as a top-six winger in the playoffs scared them. Glass in the playoffs scared them. Engelland has shown that the playoff stage is too big for him. Despres as a rookie scared them. So they addressed those concerns and pushed them out of the lineup for better or for worse.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby columbia on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:55 am

They went all in and that was fine, but Shero can't do that too often.
At a certain point, "we'll fix it at the deadline" is going to really hamper the development of any younger talent coming through the system (if you keep trading away high picks and prospects).
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby Penspal on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:57 am

Chicago won and is having to get rid of "WINNERS" (Boland, Frolik). It is what the elite clubs are forced to do when they go all in.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby mikey287 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:59 am

columbia wrote:They went all in and that was fine, but Shero can't do that too often.
At a certain point, "we'll fix it at the deadline" is going to really hamper the development of any younger talent coming through the system (if you keep trading away high picks and prospects).


Very much so. Must pick our spots. Realize the inventory of our farm system. Trades like that at the deadline are an organizational decision. Consult with amateur scouts for progress reports on what the draft picks are doing and how they are progressing, etc. This was a perfect time with cap space and my "bonus bucks" theory. Next year is a different ballgame, of course.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby Big Easy Pens Fan on Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:10 am

mikey287 wrote:
columbia wrote:They went all in and that was fine, but Shero can't do that too often.
At a certain point, "we'll fix it at the deadline" is going to really hamper the development of any younger talent coming through the system (if you keep trading away high picks and prospects).


Very much so. Must pick our spots. Realize the inventory of our farm system. Trades like that at the deadline are an organizational decision. Consult with amateur scouts for progress reports on what the draft picks are doing and how they are progressing, etc. This was a perfect time with cap space and my "bonus bucks" theory. Next year is a different ballgame, of course.


Last sentence...true dat. We will only have a bag of used pucks to offer in trade bait. Editing here: unless we're "sellers" of course. :face: :lol:



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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby ffemtreed on Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:15 am

I am still hoping we can retain Doug Murray for our #5 / #6 D pair. He might be slow, but we need his physical game and I was quite surprised by his ability to make the correct first pass out of the zone and he never panicked with the puck. Although at his price tag it probably a too much for the pens to pay for a #5/6 D man. We could however use him to help develop one of our young offensively gifted D man be letting Murray stay at home protecting him giving the young guy protected minutes as a #6 and some time on the #2 PP, which is a major talent gap on our team right now.

Letang -- Orpik
Martin -- Despres (its time for him to sink or swim)
Murry -- whichever young D wins the spot in camp
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby pugilist13 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:43 pm

If Shero had done nothing leading up to the deadline, LGP who have exploded. If this team exited in the same fashion this postseason without making a move or two, it would have been Shero's fault for not picking up that missing piece to get them over the top. Thanks for being aggressive Ray!
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:58 pm

We were in the middle of a giant winning streak at that point. I think standing pat would have gone over fine.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby taz71 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:58 pm

Hindsight is 20/20 but we learned a valuable lesion. We had our best top 6 O and top 4 D prior to the trade deadline. We learned Dupuis and Kunitz are better on Crosby's line than a more expensive Iggy or Morrow. Heck yea the Kunitz and Duper resignings are awesome deals.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby IanMoran on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:07 pm

I never liked the Morrow deal, and still don't like it

Iggy was a great deal, but just DB misusing one of the all time great RW's

Murray worked out great I thought

Really like Jokinen steal

I think these deals, as seperate individual ones were fine, but it was too much of the same thing (losing a ton of speed) when combined
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:12 pm

mikey287 wrote:
columbia wrote:They went all in and that was fine, but Shero can't do that too often.
At a certain point, "we'll fix it at the deadline" is going to really hamper the development of any younger talent coming through the system (if you keep trading away high picks and prospects).


Very much so. Must pick our spots. Realize the inventory of our farm system. Trades like that at the deadline are an organizational decision. Consult with amateur scouts for progress reports on what the draft picks are doing and how they are progressing, etc. This was a perfect time with cap space and my "bonus bucks" theory. Next year is a different ballgame, of course.


Yeah strange in the sense teams usually don't try 4 pick ups at the deadline. I think it shows deep down they even though they showed solid play management forecasted the bruins series it just still happened.

I have no problem as they had enough talent and with unknowns in the future they see the limited cap space or losing Letang and decided to go for it.

Only thing I disagree with is a top prospect, a 1st, two 2nds and two mid level prospects is giving up quite a bit.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby SolidSnake on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:15 pm

This upcoming disaster of a season will tell a lot
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby joker10277 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:16 pm

I have no problem with the trades. I do have a problem with the drafting and developement of any player that is not a dman, farm system is really bad on the forward side, really bad!
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby IanMoran on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:21 pm

joker10277 wrote:I have no problem with the trades. I do have a problem with the drafting and developement of any player that is not a dman, farm system is really bad on the forward side, really bad!

Kunitz / Neal prove that we should always go best available
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby NeddieVedder on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:27 pm

SolidSnake wrote:This upcoming disaster of a season will tell a lot


We get it. We're all gonna die.

They're going to be just as good as they've always been. It might be the same exact roster that went undefeated in March save for Kennedy. Lots of goals, frustrating power play, long regular season winning streak, freak Crosby injury, all the usual stuff. Then they'll go to the playoffs. And uh ... we'll see.
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Re: So 3/4ths of the deadline pickups are "goners"

Postby joker10277 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:33 pm

IanMoran wrote:
joker10277 wrote:I have no problem with the trades. I do have a problem with the drafting and developement of any player that is not a dman, farm system is really bad on the forward side, really bad!

Kunitz / Neal prove that we should always go best available


Yeah, that's a good theory except the dmen in those trades weren't drafted by RS, they were already here. Also, if you develop your own, you get the players on their entry level deals instead of the more expensive second or third contracts, like Kunitz and Neal.
As far as "best available", RS and his guys value dmen above all else, so to them a dman will almost always be best available, doesn't excuse them from having no forward prospects other than bennet, heck after 6 years he doesn't even have guys to use as bottom six forwards. If you take off the "in shero I trust" blinders for a minute, you might not like what you see.
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