He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby NeddieVedder on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:The Pens got better relative to the rest of the league because Crosby played most of the season. It wasn't because of changes the front office made.


That's my point. Slight downgrades in the middle of the depth chart aren't going to directly correlate to points lost in the standings, because it's still a strong roster relative to the league. Staal's career year was off the team even as Malkin's dominant year and missing Crosby were canceled out by Crosby's dominant year and subpar Malkin, but their GPG was identical. Michalek's minutes went to Niskanen and Eaton and they were better defensively because they (eventually) committed to playing better defensively. It's not just player in +, player out -.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby taz71 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:32 pm

Really all the teams that spend to the cap are going to be a worse overall heading into next season especially in terms of depth.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Pitts on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:37 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Just as a tidbit of info: the Red Wings won a Cup in 2007-2008 (when they won the President's Trophy) with an average age of ~ 30.

So while spme, rightfully so, are concerned about team age, it doesn't make or break a team.


I dont think anyone disagrees that it can be done, I have only see people mention that the age of our roster is a concern.
A slight concern this year but more of one in a few years.

Also, if we keep HCDB we run a high tempo offense probably not suited for a core all 29/30 and a handful of 38 year old's
or the oldest roster in the playoffs.

I'm one of those oddballs who is very concerned with the age of the Pen's roster. I'm going to post this article here in support of that claim. Now, the "power-forward" game cited in the article needs to be tossed aside. But, one can use these numbers as a gauge as to the effectiveness of Kunitz and Dupuis going forward. There is no history to indicate they will continue to maintain (or improve on) their recent performances. They are not high-end super stars who can continue to get by on their left-over skill and hockey intelligence like Jagr. You can expect them to basically maintain status quo for another season, maybe 2. And you can see where that has gotten this team lately.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... e13067766/
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:22 pm

NeddieVedder wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:The Pens got better relative to the rest of the league because Crosby played most of the season. It wasn't because of changes the front office made.


That's my point. Slight downgrades in the middle of the depth chart aren't going to directly correlate to points lost in the standings, because it's still a strong roster relative to the league. Staal's career year was off the team even as Malkin's dominant year and missing Crosby were canceled out by Crosby's dominant year and subpar Malkin, but their GPG was identical. Michalek's minutes went to Niskanen and Eaton and they were better defensively because they (eventually) committed to playing better defensively. It's not just player in +, player out -.


Yeah, its just regular season +, postseason -.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Mad City Mike on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:02 pm

Big Easy Pens Fan wrote:I keep hearing these things here about numerous Pens players lately. But hardly anyone mentions the size of the player's HEART. And the Pens have lots of guys with that in their lineup. Time for the LGPers to take that into consideration too.

BEPF


Heart does not win championships. Talent plus heart, combined with intelligent coaching, wins championships.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby taz71 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:27 pm

I feel a lot of the call for a change in coaching comes from the dramatic success we had switching from Therien to Bylsma then suddenly we win a cup. That really doesn't happen all that often.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby taz71 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:42 pm

Pitts wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Just as a tidbit of info: the Red Wings won a Cup in 2007-2008 (when they won the President's Trophy) with an average age of ~ 30.

So while spme, rightfully so, are concerned about team age, it doesn't make or break a team.


I dont think anyone disagrees that it can be done, I have only see people mention that the age of our roster is a concern.
A slight concern this year but more of one in a few years.

Also, if we keep HCDB we run a high tempo offense probably not suited for a core all 29/30 and a handful of 38 year old's
or the oldest roster in the playoffs.

I'm one of those oddballs who is very concerned with the age of the Pen's roster. I'm going to post this article here in support of that claim. Now, the "power-forward" game cited in the article needs to be tossed aside. But, one can use these numbers as a gauge as to the effectiveness of Kunitz and Dupuis going forward. There is no history to indicate they will continue to maintain (or improve on) their recent performances. They are not high-end super stars who can continue to get by on their left-over skill and hockey intelligence like Jagr. You can expect them to basically maintain status quo for another season, maybe 2. And you can see where that has gotten this team lately.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... e13067766/


Great article. Hopefully it doesn't apply to Kunitz or Dupuis. Even if one of them can stay playing top 6 at 38 this works out. Nice thing is both players have enough intangibles to their game that either one could play on the 3rd line in 3-4 years. Crosby and Malkin have both had a lot of failed line mates. How could you not take a shot at these two deals especially considering the home town discount.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Pitts on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Bobby Ryan has a cap hit of 5.1 for the next 2 seasons and was traded for next to nothing. granted, we do not have a "Silfverberg" in our cupboard, but I think the Pens could have put something competitive together for him. He's young and he's 30 (or more) goals a season.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby taz71 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:59 pm

Good article on the Dupuis and Kunitz signing from Face Off Factor

Compliments for the Captain
http://t.co/QD8VxRfdtr
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:01 pm

Pitts wrote:Bobby Ryan has a cap hit of 5.1 for the next 2 seasons and was traded for next to nothing. granted, we do not have a "Silfverberg" in our cupboard, but I think the Pens could have put something competitive together for him. He's young and he's 30 (or more) goals a season.


It would have been interesting if we would have offered Bennett and a D prospect (maybe Harrington)?
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Beveridge on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:04 pm

What cap room were we going to use to sign Ryan in 2 years? He might be close to 7 mil by that point. We have our 3 big deals in 2 world class Centers and a pretty good D man.

Bennett and whomever is going to be more important to this team than Bobby Ryan.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:05 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Pitts wrote:Bobby Ryan has a cap hit of 5.1 for the next 2 seasons and was traded for next to nothing. granted, we do not have a "Silfverberg" in our cupboard, but I think the Pens could have put something competitive together for him. He's young and he's 30 (or more) goals a season.


It would have been interesting if we would have offered Bennett and a D prospect (maybe Harrington)?


That is probably fair market value for Bobby Ryan. However, Bennett is worth way more to the Penguins with his entry level contract than 2 years of Bobby Ryan.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:06 pm

I'll agree with that. And by bringing in Ryan you would likely have to say good-bye to Kunitz and Dupuis, which I wouldnt be totally against. If you had Ryan to play with Sid and Neal to play with Malkin you would have to find two top (6) players on the cheap. Given our total lack of depth at WBS it would be next to impossible I think.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Pitts on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:12 pm

Beveridge wrote:What cap room were we going to use to sign Ryan in 2 years? He might be close to 7 mil by that point. We have our 3 big deals in 2 world class Centers and a pretty good D man.

Bennett and whomever is going to be more important to this team than Bobby Ryan.

The cap, budget and roster are always such a work in progress, how do you know they wouldn't have room for that? I'd take the 2 years now and worry about 2 years from now then. I can be fairly sure that Kunitz and Dupuis will be pretty close to done by then.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:31 pm

Pitts wrote:
Beveridge wrote:What cap room were we going to use to sign Ryan in 2 years? He might be close to 7 mil by that point. We have our 3 big deals in 2 world class Centers and a pretty good D man.

Bennett and whomever is going to be more important to this team than Bobby Ryan.

The cap, budget and roster are always such a work in progress, how do you know they wouldn't have room for that? I'd take the 2 years now and worry about 2 years from now then. I can be fairly sure that Kunitz and Dupuis will be pretty close to done by then.


I dont think the problem would be 2 years from now as much as it would be in the present. If you add 5.1M to this the current payroll you likely cant sign Kunitz or Dupuis. Filling out the Top 6 for the coming season would be rough.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Rocco on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:39 pm

Mad City Mike wrote:
Big Easy Pens Fan wrote:I keep hearing these things here about numerous Pens players lately. But hardly anyone mentions the size of the player's HEART. And the Pens have lots of guys with that in their lineup. Time for the LGPers to take that into consideration too.

BEPF


Heart does not win championships. Talent plus heart, combined with intelligent coaching, wins championships.


People who think I'm negative were never around when you were here in your heyday.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:23 pm

Pitts wrote:
Beveridge wrote:What cap room were we going to use to sign Ryan in 2 years? He might be close to 7 mil by that point. We have our 3 big deals in 2 world class Centers and a pretty good D man.

Bennett and whomever is going to be more important to this team than Bobby Ryan.

The cap, budget and roster are always such a work in progress, how do you know they wouldn't have room for that? I'd take the 2 years now and worry about 2 years from now then. I can be fairly sure that Kunitz and Dupuis will be pretty close to done by then.


To answer the question in the static salary cap alternate reality, the entire defense and goaltending less Letang and Scuderi would be on different contracts than they have now or would be gone, so who knows.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby Pitts on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:35 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Beveridge wrote:What cap room were we going to use to sign Ryan in 2 years? He might be close to 7 mil by that point. We have our 3 big deals in 2 world class Centers and a pretty good D man.

Bennett and whomever is going to be more important to this team than Bobby Ryan.

The cap, budget and roster are always such a work in progress, how do you know they wouldn't have room for that? I'd take the 2 years now and worry about 2 years from now then. I can be fairly sure that Kunitz and Dupuis will be pretty close to done by then.


I dont think the problem would be 2 years from now as much as it would be in the present. If you add 5.1M to this the current payroll you likely cant sign Kunitz or Dupuis. Filling out the Top 6 for the coming season would be rough.

I was thinking Ryan in place of Dupuis or Kunitz.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:40 pm

Pitts wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Beveridge wrote:What cap room were we going to use to sign Ryan in 2 years? He might be close to 7 mil by that point. We have our 3 big deals in 2 world class Centers and a pretty good D man.

Bennett and whomever is going to be more important to this team than Bobby Ryan.

The cap, budget and roster are always such a work in progress, how do you know they wouldn't have room for that? I'd take the 2 years now and worry about 2 years from now then. I can be fairly sure that Kunitz and Dupuis will be pretty close to done by then.


I dont think the problem would be 2 years from now as much as it would be in the present. If you add 5.1M to this the current payroll you likely cant sign Kunitz or Dupuis. Filling out the Top 6 for the coming season would be rough.

I was thinking Ryan in place of Dupuis or Kunitz.


So you'd be adding ~ $8.5 million (Ryan's contract + Dupuis's or Kunitz's) PLUS the $4.5 mil increase in Letang's and Malkin's contracts, PLUS the $3.375 from Rob Scuderi's contract.

Point being, Bobby Ryan would handcuff us cap-wise regardless of who you kept out of Dupuis or Kunitz.
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Re: He's old. He's slow. His contract is too long.

Postby pensfan1989 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:00 pm

You could play with all the heart in the world, but if you don't have the skills, well....
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