Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby newarenanow on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:50 pm

Shyster wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:what is the skype fiasco? Is Kenny Melvin on there or something?

A witness was testifying remotely over Skype. Morons watching the trial could figure out the Skype username of the witness, so the connection was promptly bombarded with incoming calls, each of which created a pop-up on the screen.


:lol:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:51 pm

Shyster wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:what is the skype fiasco? Is Kenny Melvin on there or something?

A witness was testifying remotely over Skype. Morons watching the trial could figure out the Skype username of the witness, so the connection was promptly bombarded with incoming calls, each of which created a pop-up on the screen.


The technician who was consulted to make this happen should have been fired on the spot.

That's a rookie mistake and should have been foreseen.

As I said before, they're lucky it wasn't worse.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:03 pm

Shyster wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:what is the skype fiasco? Is Kenny Melvin on there or something?

A witness was testifying remotely over Skype. Morons watching the trial could figure out the Skype username of the witness, so the connection was promptly bombarded with incoming calls, each of which created a pop-up on the screen.


Thats amazing
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby tifosi77 on Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:14 pm

count2infinity wrote:I really don't understand some of the moves by the prosecution. They just went over all the stains on Zimmerman's shirt the night of the incident. All of them were the blood of Zimmerman, none matched Martin. Why would they present that evidence? Makes no sense, unless they're trying to show that Martin was not on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot as there would clearly be blood from Martin on Zimmerman's shirt.

Zimmerman's statement is that Martin was on top of him, began reaching towards GZ's gun (in his own opinion), so he drew and fired. Police found TMs body laying prone with the hands tucked up under his chest. If TM shot while straddling GM, it would be difficult to understand how there was no measure of TM's blood on GM or that there was no residue from the muzzle blast on TM. (Gunshots at that range can actually cause burns if they're against unprotected skin, but at any rate there should be powder stains on TM's clothing.)
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Firebird on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:24 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/s ... ?hpt=hp_t1

The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked "in a number of ways" by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.


Instead, the mayor told him on March 16 the tapes had been released to Martin's family and the public. The family was asked to help identify voices, Lee said, but if police were in charge of the investigation, they wouldn't have presented evidence to a group.
"It should be done individually so there's no influence on the other people in the room," he said. "Then, there's no questions that can be brought up about how (an identification) was obtained or whether it was influenced."
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby shafnutz05 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:25 pm

count2infinity wrote:I really don't understand some of the moves by the prosecution. They just went over all the stains on Zimmerman's shirt the night of the incident. All of them were the blood of Zimmerman, none matched Martin. Why would they present that evidence? Makes no sense, unless they're trying to show that Martin was not on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot as there would clearly be blood from Martin on Zimmerman's shirt.


Inner city folks: This is a clear case that the government is trying to protect Zimmerman because he killed just another black dude. Commence rioting.

Will be very interesting to see what happens when the not guilty verdict is announced.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:47 am

So the prosecution is trying to get Murder 3, felony murder, added to the charges because they say it was felony child abuse against Martin.

Are you **** kidding me?

Serious question, does anyone not see ANYreasonable doubt that this was self defense by Zimmerman?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby PensFanInDC on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:52 am

Lots of people.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Troy Loney on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:58 am

I agree the murder charge was reactionary. But in the least, this Zimmerman guy needs to be relieved of his neighborhood watch duty, and should not be allowed to have a gun permit for 10/15 years, something like that.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:01 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:Lots of people.


Anyone here think that and can cite why?
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:17 pm

I don't know Florida law. And I recall Shyster saying there was a Stand Your Ground law or something that might obviate this entire discussion. But I think there is a reasonable argument that shooting and killing someone is not a reasonable response to non-life threatening injuries. In other words, society has decided that the costs of the beating are less than the costs of the death minus deterrence benefits plus minus individualistic benefits (e.g., right to protect oneself). I do think the Florida law, as Shyster insightfully explained, says just the opposite.

In any event, if it's okay to shoot someone that is punching you, then I have at least a reasonable doubt. Need the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it is not self defense? Or does the burden shift to the defendant to show by a preponderance of the evidence that
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Grunthy on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:20 pm

slamming someone's head off of concrete is not just trying to injure...
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:24 pm

Grunthy wrote:slamming someone's head off of concrete is not just trying to injure...

yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi

Everyone is so contrarian. Can I just make a point? I said "there is an argument" and I said "punching in the face." Every post any one makes on this board is just attacked instantly. Einstein could post the Theory of Relativity and someone would find one isolated sentence and try to crucify him. The word "discussion" in "discussion forum" is ironically inaccurate.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby MWB on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:32 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:
Everyone is so contrarian.


Everyone?!?! I think not.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:35 pm

MWB wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Everyone is so contrarian.


Everyone?!?! I think not.

Touche. I started typing an outraged response and saw what you did there. :fist:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Grunthy on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:37 pm

You could make argument if all they were doing was fist fighting, but that isn't what happened.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Gaucho on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:37 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:
Grunthy wrote:slamming someone's head off of concrete is not just trying to injure...

yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi

Everyone is so contrarian. Can I just make a point? I said "there is an argument" and I said "punching in the face." Every post any one makes on this board is just attacked instantly. Einstein could post the Theory of Relativity and someone would find one isolated sentence and try to crucify him. The word "discussion" in "discussion forum" is ironically inaccurate.


I hope this isn't about my response to your Bortuzzo thread, as I was only joking. Apologies if it was.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby TheHammer24 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:41 pm

Gaucho wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Grunthy wrote:slamming someone's head off of concrete is not just trying to injure...

yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi yadi

Everyone is so contrarian. Can I just make a point? I said "there is an argument" and I said "punching in the face." Every post any one makes on this board is just attacked instantly. Einstein could post the Theory of Relativity and someone would find one isolated sentence and try to crucify him. The word "discussion" in "discussion forum" is ironically inaccurate.


I hope this isn't about my response to your Bortuzzo thread, as I was only joking. Apologies if it was.
No it wasn't. I didn't even realize that was you. :fist:
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Self defense with lethal force in FL and most states requires the reasonable person standard that a reasonable person would agree that the person had a reasonable belief that permanent injury or death would occur at that time. You don't actually need to be assaulted to legally claim self defense.

Where stand your ground comes into play, many states require that if you can leave a situation you MUST flee if possible UNLESS doing so would increase your chance of harm unless you are in your home, car or some other places. FL SYG does not require you attempt to leave if possible. It's all moot anyways since it's impossible to escape when mounted and being pummeled.

Agree or disagree with the law but the state has failed on a colossal to prove any guilt beyond a reasonable doubt that this could not have been self defense just as Zimmerman has said repeatedly and a few witnesses have corroborated to some degree. The prosecution has actually come closer to proving 100% innocence.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:44 pm

I hope he gets hit by a bus in front of the courthouse.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Idoit40fans on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:44 pm

MWB wrote:
TheHammer24 wrote:
Everyone is so contrarian.


Everyone?!?! I think not.


Post of the day.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby SoupOrSam on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:46 pm

This case stinks from the WH to the DOJ to the media. Two white people it's a non-issue. Two black people it's a non-issue. Nothing else needs said.

There is no doubt Zimmerman is responsible for a death. He should be tried and convicted in civil court. ...in criminal court? Nope. Sorry.
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Grunthy on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:48 pm

SoupOrSam wrote:This case stinks from the WH to the DOJ to the media. Two white people it's a non-issue. Two black people it's a non-issue. Nothing else needs said.

There is no doubt Zimmerman is responsible for a death. He should be tried and convicted in civil court. ...in criminal court? Nope. Sorry.


exactly!
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby Hockeynut! on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:51 pm

SoupOrSam wrote:This case stinks from the WH to the DOJ to the media. Two white people it's a non-issue. Two black people it's a non-issue. Nothing else needs said.


I'd hope any case where an adult shoots and kills an unarmed teen would be investigated.

While the racial issue certainly played a part in the media blow up, there was a similar case in TX involving stand your ground and the shooter was convicted (and rightfully so, imho). One of the news programs covered it recently.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/2 ... 31066.html
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Re: Shooting Reignites Racial Questions

Postby DelPen on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:56 pm

Hockeynut! wrote:I'd hope any case where an adult shoots and kills an unarmed teen would be investigated.


It was, extensively, and the police looked at all the evidence and determined that no charges would need to be filed.
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