Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Kaizer on Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:59 pm

in hindsight, we should send Hossa a gift basket for what he did.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby mikey287 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:54 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:- Kovalchuk no longer has a valid NHL contract.
- Kovalchuk's is not the first "circumvention" deal, it was just the worst offender. IIRC, Daniel Briere's contract with Philadelphia started it.


Was reading that, for some period of time, all 30 teams would have to ratify a return? Is that part of the new CBA? Never heard of this...


No, actually, not part of the CBA. It's part of the NHL by-laws. A rarely seen document that even I don't have the majority of...unfortunately. These are rules dictated by the NHL board of governors with over-ruling say from the commissioner. They are NOT collectively bargained, and may remain that way until they breach the collective bargaining agreement.

Players that are on the voluntarily retired list may not play again without all 30 teams consenting and/or three years away from pro hockey, AIUI. That said, I don't understand it. But I wouldn't expect to see Kovy back here too terribly soon.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby littlemoonboot on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:24 am

I think what Kovalchuk did was wayyyyyyy astronomically worse than what Hossa did. It's not like he was obligated to stay with the Pens beyond his existing contract, and the Pens did fine the next year. Hossa didn't cost the Pens too much in the end.

Kovalchuk said no to 17 more years he was obligated to and had been indicating a desire to stay in Russia since the lockout. Wasn't a secret to Lou. Devils lost players, picks, and Parise for 3 years of this clown.

But considering the Devils financial woes, this may help them longer term. Sure is a kick in the balls shorter term though.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Pitt87 on Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:36 am

mikey287 wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
mikey287 wrote:- Kovalchuk no longer has a valid NHL contract.
- Kovalchuk's is not the first "circumvention" deal, it was just the worst offender. IIRC, Daniel Briere's contract with Philadelphia started it.


Was reading that, for some period of time, all 30 teams would have to ratify a return? Is that part of the new CBA? Never heard of this...


No, actually, not part of the CBA. It's part of the NHL by-laws. A rarely seen document that even I don't have the majority of...unfortunately. These are rules dictated by the NHL board of governors with over-ruling say from the commissioner. They are NOT collectively bargained, and may remain that way until they breach the collective bargaining agreement.

Players that are on the voluntarily retired list may not play again without all 30 teams consenting and/or three years away from pro hockey, AIUI. That said, I don't understand it. But I wouldn't expect to see Kovy back here too terribly soon.


Its a basic deterrent. No different than not being able to collect your pension from your employer and work for a competitor. Retirement is supposed to be one-time. I just think its odd that its not either forever or not at all.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby JS© on Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:13 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... 57203.html



“Let’s face it, he was playing alright. He wasn’t playing bad. Never would I say he was playing bad, he was playing OK. And he was the one Russian I don’t mind because he chased Sean Avery in New York. He drops’em. I like him.


“In a sense, if you don’t have any honor, it’s a pretty good deal.”
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby brwi on Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:13 pm

NJ has reportedly serious financial problems right now and have for a while. It may have just got worse recently with another missed debt payment While it was a d-bag move maybe on Kovalchoo's part, he'll be getting paid(and a LOT more than before) in the KHL.

I guess everyone can now replace the coyotes' thread with NJ being relocated pretty soon :D Extend your lease fine and dandy, but be behind on debt yet again, even after the ownership change. Ugh.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Kraftster on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:52 pm

I've sort of got this theory that maybe Kovalchuk helped out the Devils by being the villain here. In exchange for the Devils cooperation in helping this go down smoothly, I think he waited until when he did to make the announcement because the Devs didn't want to be pressured into spending the money this frees up on guys available this year. I suppose the Clowe deal sort of undercuts this a bit, but I just can't imagine him pulling such a **** move, and I think its believable that the Devs wouldn't have wanted to spend the money.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Pitt87 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:42 pm

brwi wrote:NJ has reportedly serious financial problems right now and have for a while. It may have just got worse recently with another missed debt payment While it was a d-bag move maybe on Kovalchoo's part, he'll be getting paid(and a LOT more than before) in the KHL.

I guess everyone can now replace the coyotes' thread with NJ being relocated pretty soon :D Extend your lease fine and dandy, but be behind on debt yet again, even after the ownership change. Ugh.


First, they will not leave NJ, since Vanderbeek is owner and operator of both the team and Prudential center, but the debt situation is probably the worst in NHL history. Coyotes issue is revenue, not debt. NJ's issue is not revenue, but since they are also the operator of their arent, and they have no NBA tenant, they are at additional risk when they miss the playoffs.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2013/06/20/new-jersey-devils-being-crushed-by-230-million-of-debt/

Couple all this with the new escrow rules, and Democrats in the US Senate insistence of a situation on 'high earners' and the highest paid NHL players are at the most risk of any sport, since they tend to have lower overall salaries than other sports. If there is any truth to the Devils delaying payment to Kovalchuk, he may have had no choice but to leave.

Don't forget... Jeff Vanderbeek ran Lehman's Global Risk Management group in the mid-2000's. While he knows money, its evident he's not real good with it...
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby brwi on Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:54 pm

Pitt87 wrote:
brwi wrote:NJ has reportedly serious financial problems right now and have for a while. It may have just got worse recently with another missed debt payment While it was a d-bag move maybe on Kovalchoo's part, he'll be getting paid(and a LOT more than before) in the KHL.

I guess everyone can now replace the coyotes' thread with NJ being relocated pretty soon :D Extend your lease fine and dandy, but be behind on debt yet again, even after the ownership change. Ugh.


First, they will not leave NJ, since Vanderbeek is owner and operator of both the team and Prudential center, but the debt situation is probably the worst in NHL history. Coyotes issue is revenue, not debt. NJ's issue is not revenue, but since they are also the operator of their arent, and they have no NBA tenant, they are at additional risk when they miss the playoffs.



It was crushing debt that got the Coyotes in their initial trouble. When Jerry Moyes' trucking empire started crumbling, he took out the same kind of loan-shark deals that all Pens' fans are familiar with.

While I agree that it would be very unlikely the Devils' would be moving, they are in a world of hurt right now and can't even reportedly get someone to buy a minority ownership interest in the franchise/arena/etc. The NHL is fronting them a ton of money at this point.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Pitt87 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:04 pm

brwi wrote:
Pitt87 wrote:
brwi wrote:NJ has reportedly serious financial problems right now and have for a while. It may have just got worse recently with another missed debt payment While it was a d-bag move maybe on Kovalchoo's part, he'll be getting paid(and a LOT more than before) in the KHL.

I guess everyone can now replace the coyotes' thread with NJ being relocated pretty soon :D Extend your lease fine and dandy, but be behind on debt yet again, even after the ownership change. Ugh.


First, they will not leave NJ, since Vanderbeek is owner and operator of both the team and Prudential center, but the debt situation is probably the worst in NHL history. Coyotes issue is revenue, not debt. NJ's issue is not revenue, but since they are also the operator of their arent, and they have no NBA tenant, they are at additional risk when they miss the playoffs.



It was crushing debt that got the Coyotes in their initial trouble. When Jerry Moyes' trucking empire started crumbling, he took out the same kind of loan-shark deals that all Pens' fans are familiar with.

While I agree that it would be very unlikely the Devils' would be moving, they are in a world of hurt right now and can't even reportedly get someone to buy a minority ownership interest in the franchise/arena/etc. The NHL is fronting them a ton of money at this point.


Guess you could argue that in both cases is debt coverage, which is an affect of income, but point is that Coyotes did not have more or less debt that other franchises, they just didn't make enough money to cover it. Same in NJ, but they have to have a deep playoff run just to cover costs... not a quality operating model.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby shoeshine boy on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:54 am

can someone more familiar with Russia or the KHL explain to me why anything Kovy makes over there is tax-free? is it the KHL paying the tax or does Russia have no income tax?
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:56 am

I read that it won't be tax free, that it will be taxed at a flat 13% rate....which is tiny compared to whatever any of us pays over here.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby mikey287 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:59 am

shoeshine boy wrote:can someone more familiar with Russia or the KHL explain to me why anything Kovy makes over there is tax-free? is it the KHL paying the tax or does Russia have no income tax?


Not Russian, and hopefully someone will correct me. But I believe that Russia has a flat tax (~13%) but I also believe that the club will pay the tax for him. At least that's my cursory understanding, but I've heard lots of different variations to this...
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby brwi on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:59 am

mikey287 wrote:
shoeshine boy wrote:can someone more familiar with Russia or the KHL explain to me why anything Kovy makes over there is tax-free? is it the KHL paying the tax or does Russia have no income tax?


Not Russian, and hopefully someone will correct me. But I believe that Russia has a flat tax (~13%) but I also believe that the club will pay the tax for him. At least that's my cursory understanding, but I've heard lots of different variations to this...


Russia has a flat tax rate for some people/businesses and a rather progressive rate for others. For a guy like Kovalchoo, it would likely be 13%. If you're not a Russian citizen, I think it's about 15%,. They also have a pretty hefty VAT to go along behind that.

Kovalchuk is probably going to have his taxes paid by the KHL club as that's sort of common with these kind of contracts as far as I know.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby Pitt87 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:45 am

shoeshine boy wrote:can someone more familiar with Russia or the KHL explain to me why anything Kovy makes over there is tax-free? is it the KHL paying the tax or does Russia have no income tax?


Works like a tax credit; players are exempt from income tax because of the revenue generated by the league.
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Re: Ilya Kovalchuk Retires

Postby JS© on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:04 pm

stick tap to Cape Breton (QMJHL) for finally retiring Kovalchuk's number 71

Image

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... 26374.html
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