Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby columbia on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:48 am

Perhaps it would instill more discipline in Geno's game.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:51 am

Beveridge wrote:D'Agostini get hurt on Friday or Saturday?

Wasn't listed in morning skate lineups.


Wife in labor.

columbia wrote:Perhaps it would instill more discipline in Geno's game.


Geno on the PK is a nightmare scenario. I think we would see a lot of 5 on 3's from it.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:09 pm

I don't think so. He definitely knows how to play defense. I think the attention it would bring to that part of the game would benefit him all arounhd.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby Beveridge on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:28 pm

Geno on the PK would be good for him overall, but the question would be would the good at least = the bad (mental farts, 5 on 3s he will cause time to time).
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby pcm on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:34 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I don't think so. He definitely knows how to play defense. I think the attention it would bring to that part of the game would benefit him all arounhd.


I agree with this 200%. Been saying it for years, make the star players more accountable for a 200ft game and the whole team will follow suit.

Yzerman and Federov lead the way for the Wings PK back in the day, Zetterberg and Datsyuk the same. I see the same potential with Sid and Geno.

Malkin's got the skills to be an exceptioanl PK'er. He just isn't asked to play that role so he doesn't focus on it. He's asked to lead the offensive charge, so that's where he puts all his mojo.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:36 pm

Why is it assumed that he would make mistakes derived from being overly aggressive when killing penalties?
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:46 pm

I don't think some of the penalties he takes are caused by being "over-agressive", and I'm kind of apprehensive about how he'll clear/attempt to clear the zone. We saw Joe Vitale turn the puck over (leading to a goal) trying a cutesy one-touch pass up to PL3 who was coming out of the box. I just think Malkin would try to do something fancy, similar to what Vitale tried, that would lead to a goal against because the turnover ended up causing a 4 on 2 the other way.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby tfrizz on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:49 pm

Beveridge wrote:-I think it was Murphy earlier that said it but Harrington looks like the next Scuds. Didn't even realize he was playing.


Harrington is basically a more well-rounded, better skating Scuderi with a higher ceiling. As Dale Hunter said, he already thinks the game at an NHL level - a lot like Phoenix's Brandon Gormley, but maybe even better.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby tfrizz on Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:57 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I feel good about Sutter on the third and Vitale if he's on the 4th. Thats about all i've got.


A third line of Jokinen-Sutter-D'Agostini has the potential to be good. I'd rather see D'Agostini on the 4th line, but he did have a 46 point season a few years ago - so he does have the ability to put up points, even if it was just a "one off".
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby pcm on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:02 pm

MRandall25 wrote:I don't think some of the penalties he takes are caused by being "over-agressive", and I'm kind of apprehensive about how he'll clear/attempt to clear the zone. We saw Joe Vitale turn the puck over (leading to a goal) trying a cutesy one-touch pass up to PL3 who was coming out of the box. I just think Malkin would try to do something fancy, similar to what Vitale tried, that would lead to a goal against because the turnover ended up causing a 4 on 2 the other way.


This is probably true. But after skating to the bench with the head down after being scored on when your job is specifically to PREVENT a goal, I think he'd change his ways. Which is exactly why people are advocating it.

When this kind of thing happens 5-on-5, he can get away with thinking, well I score more than I give up from mistakes, k da $... because his job is to score goals. But add PK to his job description and he'll start to take defense more seriously (as he did for Russia before becoming a superstar).
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:14 pm

I see what you're saying, and from your perspective, you're probably right.

But, the way I see it, he has to prove he's capable of committing himself to defense 5 on 5 before I let him on the PK. I need to see from Malkin that he's capable of making the smart play, not the fancy one, before I can say "OK, he should get his shot at the PK".

If he does get time, I'd love for him to prove my doubts wrong.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:30 pm

Malkin on the PK. Wow, just leaves me speechless. Last I checked, winning games was more important than individual development. He is a massive liability on D and needs the rest when we are on the PK so he can clear his head and think of the next atrocious pass he wants to make.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby Crankshaft on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:32 pm

When Malkin came into the league, Malkin was actually touted as being responsible defensively. You can see it when he does engage and racks up the takeaways.

I would love to see him added to the PK.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby Take the Body Shoot the Puck on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:43 pm

When Malkin was first coming over from Russia, his prowess on the penalty kill was discussed at length and everyone thought he would be a fixture on our penalty kill in Pittsburgh. Between 2006 and now I have no idea how he's become the liability he is.

Also, was it the year we won the cup where he was something like 2nd in the league in takeaways behind only Datsyuk?
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby meow on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:47 pm

I'm against Malkin, and Crosby, on the PK for two reasons that I have not seen mentioned here yet. One, I want the first shift after we kill a penalty to be Malkin, Crosby, Neal to immediately build off the momentum of the kill. Two, if the PP takes a penalty, which does not happen often but still occurs, I want a fresh Malkin or Crosby to spill over the boards to play 4-on-4.

Malkin definitely can excel at killing penalties. Just because he doesn't play stellar D 100% of the time doesn't mean he isn't capable of it.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MarioLives on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:03 pm

meow wrote:I'm against Malkin, and Crosby, on the PK for two reasons that I have not seen mentioned here yet. One, I want the first shift after we kill a penalty to be Malkin, Crosby, Neal to immediately build off the momentum of the kill. Two, if the PP takes a penalty, which does not happen often but still occurs, I want a fresh Malkin or Crosby to spill over the boards to play 4-on-4.

Malkin definitely can excel at killing penalties. Just because he doesn't play stellar D 100% of the time doesn't mean he isn't capable of it.



As tempting as it would be to have Crosby on the PK, with his injury history I would keep him far away from killing penalties. Slap shots off his legs, chest, face......not good for him
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:05 pm

Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:When Malkin was first coming over from Russia, his prowess on the penalty kill was discussed at length and everyone thought he would be a fixture on our penalty kill in Pittsburgh. Between 2006 and now I have no idea how he's become the liability he is.

Also, was it the year we won the cup where he was something like 2nd in the league in takeaways behind only Datsyuk?


Yes, that first sentence is true.

I'm not sure why people think Even Strength defending and PKing are the same thing.....?
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:17 pm

meecrofilm wrote:
Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:When Malkin was first coming over from Russia, his prowess on the penalty kill was discussed at length and everyone thought he would be a fixture on our penalty kill in Pittsburgh. Between 2006 and now I have no idea how he's become the liability he is.

Also, was it the year we won the cup where he was something like 2nd in the league in takeaways behind only Datsyuk?


Yes, that first sentence is true.

I'm not sure why people think Even Strength defending and PKing are the same thing.....?


Not sure of the connotation you're going for in the last sentence.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:22 pm

It seems to me that generally the argument against Malkin PKing is because he turns the puck over a lot in the O-zone and sometimes leaves his assignments early. Unless I missed something.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby Pens4Life on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:25 pm

Jokinen - Sutter - Kobasew could be effective two way 3rd line..
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MarioLives on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:29 pm

The Pens are lot smaller and easier to play against on paper now than I would like. They lack size and sandpaper that is needed to play hockey deep into the post season. Just my opinion. I know a lot can change before the playoffs, but right now that is a concern.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby penny lane on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Take the Body Shoot the Puck wrote:When Malkin was first coming over from Russia, his prowess on the penalty kill was discussed at length and everyone thought he would be a fixture on our penalty kill in Pittsburgh. Between 2006 and now I have no idea how he's become the liability he is.

Also, was it the year we won the cup where he was something like 2nd in the league in takeaways behind only Datsyuk?



The reason I think Sid and Evgeni could benefit from the PK is to learn how to turn defense into scoring options. 2nd, during the play-offs will be prepared & skilled at playing patient with the puck.
Your best players should play often.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:36 pm

meecrofilm wrote:It seems to me that generally the argument against Malkin PKing is because he turns the puck over a lot in the O-zone and sometimes leaves his assignments early. Unless I missed something.


His turnovers/bad plays aren't exclusive to any zone.

And the argument for him on the PK is that his one on one D is good. The PK is not predicated on one on one defense. You need to be able to keep the other guys to the outside, take away passing lanes, make the smart play, and jump on loose pucks.

From what I've seen from Malkin, I'm not sure I can trust him in simply clearing the zone when he gets the chance. Again, he tries to make the fancy play, and the Jackets' 2nd goal last night was the result of someone attempting to be fancy on the PK. I just can't see Malkin playing the PK the way this team has. I don't see him willingly sitting in the PK box and being patient.

Again, love for him to prove me wrong, but 5 on 5 defense is not the same as defending on the PK.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby meecrofilm on Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:52 pm

MRandall25 wrote:Again, love for him to prove me wrong, but 5 on 5 defense is not the same as defending on the PK.


Yes, exactly. Which is why I don't understand why people are using that as a reason that he wouldn't be good at killing penalties. Because he has been before earlier in his career, and could be again.

The notion that, if everytime Malkin got the puck on the PK, instead of clearing it he would try to dangle through two players or whatever, is, well... misguided is putting it kindly.
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Re: Pens vs Blue Jackets (Pre-season) Official Game Thread

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:00 pm

meecrofilm wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:Again, love for him to prove me wrong, but 5 on 5 defense is not the same as defending on the PK.


Yes, exactly. Which is why I don't understand why people are using that as a reason that he wouldn't be good at killing penalties. Because he has been before earlier in his career, and could be again.

The notion that, if everytime Malkin got the puck on the PK, instead of clearing it he would try to dangle through two players or whatever, is, well... misguided is putting it kindly.


And why would his 5 on 5 defense mean he'd be good? It goes both ways.

Don't act like Malkin is a good decision maker. There's been countless tomes where he could've made the safe easy play, didn't, and cost us a goal.

I'm not saying he's going to attempt to dangle every time. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm just simply saying his decision making in all zones has been suspect for his entire career. There's a pretty good chance that would also occur on the PK.

And the KHL is not a good barometer of any sort of ability. The game there couldn't be more different than the NHL
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