the Jacques Martin effect?

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the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby pekkasteele on Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:03 am

Since I live in Sweden I have not seen any pre-season games or practices or anything, but some of you have. My question, can you see any difference in the play-style or something, from the hiring of Jacques? Is he even there? I have not seen an interview or anything about him yet.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Jim on Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:29 am

You won't see any real difference (if at all) until a couple weeks into the regular season. Right now too many people are just fighting for jobs to settle down into playing the pure system.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:33 am

The Jacques Martin effect....

Here's a preview:

Pens doing good --> Martin
Pens doing bad --> Bylsma

/end Jacques Martin effect
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:38 am

Good to see the front runner for defense/praise of bylsma for anything that happens to the penguins already in play.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:42 am

Is it really that shocking? You know that's where it's going to go and, for the most part, what posters will use that card.

His influence should be a good thing and I think it will, but to the ones on axe grinding missions, Martin will get credit and Bylsma will take blame. Just like Flower vs Defense, Kunitz/Dupuis vs Crosby, whatever other random ones that are floated out there.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby wondermoose on Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:12 am

They may call him an assistant coach, but it sounds like he's going to be a mentor as much as anything. It actually sounds like a great idea; he's a teacher or adviser, of sorts, and that can only be good for some of the supremely-talented-but-mistake-prone defensemen on the team.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby toledomudhen on Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:10 pm

I have heard from someone close to the team that he has a reputation among players that have played for him that he is just not a very smart hockey guy. Since assistants have little to no impact on discipline and accountability, it seems that you would want a keen eye and excellent strategist, and someone that can connect with and support the guys. Seems like a bad hire from what I am hearing and fans should not expect it to make any difference... But after inking Geno to a long term deal immediately after showing his deficiencies defensively in the playoffs and WAY overpaying Letang and all of the other questionable decisions made by Shero this off season why would pens fans show optimism about this hire?
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Crankshaft on Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:05 pm

toledomudhen wrote:I have heard from someone close to the team that he has a reputation among players that have played for him that he is just not a very smart hockey guy. Since assistants have little to no impact on discipline and accountability, it seems that you would want a keen eye and excellent strategist, and someone that can connect with and support the guys. Seems like a bad hire from what I am hearing and fans should not expect it to make any difference... But after inking Geno to a long term deal immediately after showing his deficiencies defensively in the playoffs and WAY overpaying Letang and all of the other questionable decisions made by Shero this off season why would pens fans show optimism about this hire?


He's coached 4 NHL teams and had a winning record by more than 100 games. I'll take his history over a random internet poster.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:09 pm

Yeah I posted then deleted something saying "This post reeks of not knowing who Jacques Martin is, but I don't believe that could be the case". Well now I guess that post is basically back.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby toledomudhen on Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:19 pm

Crankshaft wrote:
toledomudhen wrote:I have heard from someone close to the team that he has a reputation among players that have played for him that he is just not a very smart hockey guy. Since assistants have little to no impact on discipline and accountability, it seems that you would want a keen eye and excellent strategist, and someone that can connect with and support the guys. Seems like a bad hire from what I am hearing and fans should not expect it to make any difference... But after inking Geno to a long term deal immediately after showing his deficiencies defensively in the playoffs and WAY overpaying Letang and all of the other questionable decisions made by Shero this off season why would pens fans show optimism about this hire?


He's coached 4 NHL teams and had a winning record by more than 100 games. I'll take his history over a random internet poster.



I recognize I have no credibility and there is no reason to believe this post... But let me ask, have Shero's recent moves, including those to bring in a roster full of 30 somethings to lose in 4 games to a roster full of 20 somethings, to his blind and full endorsement of MAF to $8.7 to Geno after a sub par playoff to a HUGE contract to Letang. Seriously. Why would we assume this is anything more than loyalty to someone who coached for him when he was in Ottawa?

Take it as a random post, but consider the recent history as well.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:21 pm

This has nothing to do with your credibility on this board, but rather to do with martin's credibility as a nhl coach whose strength is defensive play.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Mr. Colby on Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:36 pm

I doubt Martin will be of any significant impact. Yet i'm sure there will be the people who put success on Martin and failure on Bylsma. And i'm sure there will be the people who call people out for success/Martin failure/Bylsma. And I'm sure those 2 groups will duke it out claiming to all be neutral yet clearly pushing an agenda one way or the other. But in the end it will be an NHL assistant coach who will have little to no impact on the outcome of the season.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Beveridge on Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:37 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:This has nothing to do with your credibility on this board, but rather to do with martin's credibility as a nhl coach whose strength is defensive play.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:45 pm

After watching the Pens defensive zone coverage the last few years including easy tap ins and all the chasing around I have no problem givin Martin credit if its turned around.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby toledomudhen on Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:33 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:This has nothing to do with your credibility on this board, but rather to do with martin's credibility as a nhl coach whose strength is defensive play.

I get that and hope you're right because defensive accountability would make this a much better playoff team. HCDB has proven in stretches that his teams can play that way. I think he "gets it" about defense. Assistant coaches are not the ones that hold players accountable, that is the HC's job, and that is where I see the problem. The three players that consistently hurt this team with defensive lapses are 71, 18 and 58. Not because they don't know how to play defensive, they chose not to and the HC keeps sending them back out there. Even if Martin is a great hockey mind, what does he really know about a defensive brand of hockey that the staff before did not? And how will an assistant coach hold superstars accountable when the HC does not.

That said, it is out there that he is not a great hockey mind. That does not make him a bad HC. Pat Burns was a very successful HC and he was a police officer, not a hockey player. HC's can be very effective in motivation, accountability etc. That is my two cents worth
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Nizzy on Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:29 pm

Team Year Regular Season Post Season
G W L T OTL Pts Finish W L W% Result
STL 1986–87 80 32 33 15 – 79 1st in Norris 2 4 .333 Lost in First round
STL 1987–88 80 34 38 8 – 76 2nd in Norris 5 5 .500 Lost in Second round
OTT 1995–96 38 10 24 4 – (41) 6th in Northeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
OTT 1996–97 82 31 36 15 – 77 3rd in Northeast 3 4 .429 Lost in First round
OTT 1997–98 82 34 33 15 - 83 5th in Northeast 5 6 .455 Lost in Second round
OTT 1998–99 82 44 23 15 - 103 1st in Northeast 0 4 .000 Lost in First round
OTT 1999–2000 82 41 28 11 2 95 2nd in Northeast 2 4 .333 Lost in First round
OTT 2000–01 82 48 21 9 4 109 1st in Northeast 0 4 .000 Lost in First round
OTT 2001–02 80 38 26 9 7 94 3rd in Northeast 7 5 .583 Lost in Second round
OTT 2002–03 82 52 21 8 1 113 1st in Northeast 11 7 .611 Lost in Conf. Finals
OTT 2003–04 82 43 23 10 6 102 3rd in Northeast 3 4 .429 Lost in First round
FLA 2005–06 82 37 34 – 11 85 4th in Southeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
FLA 2006–07 82 35 31 – 16 86 4th in Southeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
FLA 2007–08 82 38 35 – 9 85 3rd in Southeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
MTL 2009–10 82 39 33 – 10 88 4th in Northeast 9 10 .474 Lost in Conf. Finals
MTL 2010–11 82 44 30 – 8 96 2nd in Northeast 3 4 .429 Lost in First round
MTL 2011–12 32 13 12 – 7 (78) 5th in Northeast - - - (fired)
Total 1,294 613 481 119 81 4 Division
Championships 50 62 .446 12 Playoff
Appearances

he's a loser

he'll fit in perfectly with Bylsma.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Eismann on Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:49 pm

I'd pay just to hear him at practice say: "Is Jack Martin gonna hafta choke a d-man?"
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Pitt87 on Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:41 am

Beveridge wrote:The Jacques Martin effect....

Here's a preview:

Pens doing good --> Martin
Pens doing bad --> Bylsma

/end Jacques Martin effect


HA! If that's not spot on, I don't know what is...
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:36 am

Mr. Colby wrote:I doubt Martin will be of any significant impact. Yet i'm sure there will be the people who put success on Martin and failure on Bylsma. And i'm sure there will be the people who call people out for success/Martin failure/Bylsma. And I'm sure those 2 groups will duke it out claiming to all be neutral yet clearly pushing an agenda one way or the other. But in the end it will be an NHL assistant coach who will have little to no impact on the outcome of the season.


I pretty much agree with everything you've said as far as the blame/success game. However, I do think Martin will be a significant impact for a few reasons:

1 - They've already publicly came out and said they are going to change the system, which is more than they did after the playoffs when they acted like it was just a little bad play.

2 - I think anyone who believes that Martin coming in isn't some sort of Tactic to let Bylsma know his job is not safe despite his extension and that Martin wants to take his job, then you are sorely mistaken.

Things will change, there will be an impact. Will that impact be good or bad? I don't know, but you will for sure see a change in the Penguins "system."
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Gaucho on Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:
2 - I think anyone who believes that Martin coming in isn't some sort of Tactic to let Bylsma know his job is not safe despite his extension and that Martin wants to take his job, then you are sorely mistaken.



I think the idea is to provide a relatively young and inexperienced staff with a veteran presence. Can't hurt, of course, to have an experienced coach handy just in case.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby pugilist13 on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:42 am

Is it just me, or is this team playing more sound defense. I know were only 2 games in at this point, but it looks like a more defined system in their own end. Everyone making a concerted effort to do the right things. Blocking a ton of shots and protecting the house. Not trying to open a can of worms as far as DB, but Martin was a solid hiring.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Guinness on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:56 am

Letang was "WAY" overpaid?

I had no idea.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby Guinness on Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:01 am

Nizzy wrote:Team Year Regular Season Post Season
G W L T OTL Pts Finish W L W% Result
STL 1986–87 80 32 33 15 – 79 1st in Norris 2 4 .333 Lost in First round
STL 1987–88 80 34 38 8 – 76 2nd in Norris 5 5 .500 Lost in Second round
OTT 1995–96 38 10 24 4 – (41) 6th in Northeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
OTT 1996–97 82 31 36 15 – 77 3rd in Northeast 3 4 .429 Lost in First round
OTT 1997–98 82 34 33 15 - 83 5th in Northeast 5 6 .455 Lost in Second round
OTT 1998–99 82 44 23 15 - 103 1st in Northeast 0 4 .000 Lost in First round
OTT 1999–2000 82 41 28 11 2 95 2nd in Northeast 2 4 .333 Lost in First round
OTT 2000–01 82 48 21 9 4 109 1st in Northeast 0 4 .000 Lost in First round
OTT 2001–02 80 38 26 9 7 94 3rd in Northeast 7 5 .583 Lost in Second round
OTT 2002–03 82 52 21 8 1 113 1st in Northeast 11 7 .611 Lost in Conf. Finals
OTT 2003–04 82 43 23 10 6 102 3rd in Northeast 3 4 .429 Lost in First round
FLA 2005–06 82 37 34 – 11 85 4th in Southeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
FLA 2006–07 82 35 31 – 16 86 4th in Southeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
FLA 2007–08 82 38 35 – 9 85 3rd in Southeast 0 0 – Missed Playoffs
MTL 2009–10 82 39 33 – 10 88 4th in Northeast 9 10 .474 Lost in Conf. Finals
MTL 2010–11 82 44 30 – 8 96 2nd in Northeast 3 4 .429 Lost in First round
MTL 2011–12 32 13 12 – 7 (78) 5th in Northeast - - - (fired)
Total 1,294 613 481 119 81 4 Division
Championships 50 62 .446 12 Playoff
Appearances

he's a loser

he'll fit in perfectly with Bylsma.


:lol: because the record of those franchises before and after Martin is so exemplary (aside from MTL, of course)? Making the playoffs 3 out of every 4 years with those crap-ball franchises seems like a decent run, to me at least.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby The U on Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:13 pm

Devils and Sabres might be 2 teams that struggle to score all season. Combination of that and seemingly more structured D zone play from the Pens.
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Re: the Jacques Martin effect?

Postby DropEmJayBird on Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:16 pm

From my seat in game 1, looking toward the net from the point - it looked like the penguins were packed a bit closer together in their own end. The blocked shot stats seem to show this as well. Also - when the puck, either by rebound or after a block, bounced to the middle or slot.. multiple penguins were there.

If you still aren't sure about the Martin effect - here is a quote from Reirden that should explain pretty much everything that was wrong with this team the past few years.

Reirden witnessed it on Day 1 of camp during a film session. Martin, reputable for his defensive acumen, did not hesitate to ask a specific question about changes Reirden had implemented to help the Penguins finish seventh in overall goals against last season.
“We don't spend a lot of time in defensive-zone coverage, and it's because we have forwards that have the puck so much,” Reirden said.


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