Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Pitts on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:23 pm

darkstar57 wrote:the overreactions on this board following losses are hysterical. Its like we just got swept out of the playoffs by the bruins again.

No excuse for losing to the Flyers. Not this season.

darkstar57 wrote:Take a deep breath and relax, we started out hot and looked really good but have cooled off that happens over the the ebbs and flows of the season, for all the criticism malkins seams to be getting i think he has actually been playing great, he made about 4-5 passes (including the one on the crosby goal) that made me go wow, Sid needs a new move on breakaways, goalies know he is looking five whole, both breakaway attempts he tried to go 5 hole, not that hard to save.

Agree about Malkin. As for Sid, he simply ran out of time to make a play. The defender was closing in from the other wing, or I think Sid skirts across the crease and goes back-hand upstairs on Emery.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby WDWBurghGooner on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:24 pm

Bottom line is that the Pens are way too easy to play against at the moment.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby PghSkins on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:26 pm

Pitts wrote:
slipshod wrote:I didn't see a replay but did Letang just miss the net with those two wide open shots from the low circle in the 3rd or did a stick get in there somewhere?

He missed.


The second was basically an instant replay of the first.

Maddening.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Pens4Life on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:26 pm

GSdrums87 wrote:Something's gotta give. Give the lines a jumble, bring up Megna and Harry Z for some jump. Letang is garbage in his own end and not justifying that new contract in the other, nobody crashing the net trying to work for something. Perimeter shots allllll game. Horrible entry on the power play. Can't get the lines matched up in your favor AT HOME. The one thing this team should never struggle with is goal scoring. When does Bylsma stop and go "Hmm, this isn't working at the moment, lets give them a different look because why not?" Nah, keep starting the cycle of futility over again. Hold your ******* players accountable.


:thumb:
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Pitts on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:27 pm

wondermoose wrote:
penny lane wrote:
Dave Molinari ‏@MolinariPG 4m Here's who's practicing: Fleury, Zatkoff, D'Agostini, Adams, Neal, Bennett, Jeffrey, Engelland, :fist: Martin :fist: , Bortuzzo and Maatta.


For emphasis.

Optional practice after a putrid loss...perfect.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Dickie Dunn on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:34 pm

wondermoose wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
wondermoose wrote:With Dupuis, as long as he's not hurting the line (which he isn't) then I've got no problem with a lack of production. It ain't his job on that line to be responsible for making goals.


Incorrect. In the past I would whole heartedly agree with you, but Dupuis is now paid like a guy who is responsible for making goals.


Absolutely false. You don't pay a player more money to do something he has never done. You pay him to keep doing what he has always done. It's like Scuderi, he isn't making that much money for his one-timer. In Dupuis' case, it's play responsible, skate fast, forecheck hard, and be ready for Sid's passes. He carries a cap hit of $3.75 million, hardly enough to warrant a demand for goals and offense.


He's getting paid $3.75 million per because he scored 20 goals last season and 25 the season before, otherwise he would have been making in the neighborhood of $2 million per year on another 2 year deal. Any thoughts otherwise are asinine. At what point are you expected to do the job of a top liner winger? Kunitz's $3.85 million? Is that considered the threshold for being required to score goals while playing 15 minutes a night with the best player in the world? Despite all the intangibles he brings to the team and to Sid's line, being on pace to match Brandon Sutter in goals isn't cutting it for a top line winger.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby sniper on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:38 pm

-Bylsma sucks at matching lines. The line he put out right before the flyer goal was stupidity. Why on earth was Engelland on the ice? There are 11 defenseman in the organization I'd rather have out there. He played 3 shifts in the 3rd period after being a go to defensman against their top line in the first. What???

-Flyer player gets the puck in offensive zone..at least one maybe two forwards go immediately to the front of the net and wait for a shot. Pens get the puck in offensive zone...you know where the other players aren't going. Engelland as a forward actually might be the only player on the team who actually does go to the net.

-Pens had a ton more scoring chances than the flyers. At least 3 or 4 times more. This game should have been a blow out if they could just hit the net! How Letang missed two wide open nets within 20 seconds on that pp in the second period amazes me. I think Neal missed a great chance in between his two misses.

-Malkin looked great, but he needs to shoot more.

-Defensively I thought they played fine other than Bortuzzo's head fart and Letang's softness on each of the Flyer goals. Flyers didn't have many quality chances. Did VL play? No flyer stood out.

-Not going to the net is their biggest problem right now. Teams like Boston, St. Louis, Rangers, Flyers, and many others. They get half of their goals from doing nothing other than standing in front of the net on point shots. This requires very little skill. When the puck goes in it seems like luck and to an extent it is, but the Pens rarely ever even attempt it. Others get half their goals by doing it. In low scoring games it's typically the difference.

-Dupuis has been invisible. I believe he has 2 points in his last 10 games, both assists. He's generating nothing.

-Malkin's line needs a big body, who hits and goes to the net. That's not Jokinen.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby bhaw on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:47 pm

columbia wrote:The problem with that is that he isn't getting paid like a 3rd liner.
You want cash and security at his age? You are now expected to produce.


As you know, I hate DB, but it's not his job to play guys in the lineup based on their salary. If Dupuis is playing like a 3rd liner (not saying he is b/c I've only seen parts of the last few games), you play him on the 3rd line. A coach shouldn't let a contract dictate his position in the lineup. The GM's job is to manage the contracts. Coach's job to manage the players.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby wondermoose on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:50 pm

Dickie Dunn wrote:
wondermoose wrote:
Dickie Dunn wrote:
wondermoose wrote:With Dupuis, as long as he's not hurting the line (which he isn't) then I've got no problem with a lack of production. It ain't his job on that line to be responsible for making goals.


Incorrect. In the past I would whole heartedly agree with you, but Dupuis is now paid like a guy who is responsible for making goals.


Absolutely false. You don't pay a player more money to do something he has never done. You pay him to keep doing what he has always done. It's like Scuderi, he isn't making that much money for his one-timer. In Dupuis' case, it's play responsible, skate fast, forecheck hard, and be ready for Sid's passes. He carries a cap hit of $3.75 million, hardly enough to warrant a demand for goals and offense.


He's getting paid $3.75 million per because he scored 20 goals last season and 25 the season before, otherwise he would have been making in the neighborhood of $2 million per year on another 2 year deal. Any thoughts otherwise are asinine. At what point are you expected to do the job of a top liner winger? Kunitz's $3.85 million? Is that considered the threshold for being required to score goals while playing 15 minutes a night with the best player in the world? Despite all the intangibles he brings to the team and to Sid's line, being on pace to match Brandon Sutter in goals isn't cutting it for a top line winger.


You can make your judgement after the season on whether he earned his keep or not, but he's far from the reason that they're playing poorly. My point is he's not the type of player to carry a team out of its offensive funk.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby indian on Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:54 pm

Being a top line winger, its his responsibility to add something to the line. Score or create space.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby wondermoose on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:01 pm

Man, people are really grasping at straws if they're going after Pascal Dupuis' lack of production. "Argle blargle, not paid to support, blargle flargle, shooooot!"
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby columbia on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:04 pm

wondermoose wrote:Man, people are really grasping at straws if they're going after Pascal Dupuis' lack of production. "Argle blargle, not paid to support, blargle flargle, shooooot!"


Who's blaming him?
It's a symptom of their problems, not a cause.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:14 pm

- tanner glass showed some heart last night. He really looks like a different player than last season.
- It is becoming evident that Scuderi and Martin are the pens best defensemen... which is sad considering what the organization gave Letang this summer.
- Sid, duper, and kunitz once again come right out of the gate like lightning... but they seemed to disappear after the disallowed goal.
- One thing people can not say about Geno is that he is not trying... he is backchecking, forechecking, deeking, and diving... sooner or later things will turn around for him
- Why did DB split Bortz and Maatta? They were working really well together, and both are young. Why not just keep them together for years to come if it was working.
- MAF has played fantastic lately... and none of the goals can be blamed on him BUT, when are we going to get one of those 'holy cow, he just won the game for the pens' moments.
- How is it that a guy like Simmonds can retrieve the puck from the boards with 4 pens in the defensive zone and no one on the flyers within 20 feet of the puck?
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby MRandall25 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:21 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:- Why did DB split Bortz and Maatta? They were working really well together, and both are young. Why not just keep them together for years to come if it was working.


Because Martin was out. Otherwise you end up with Letang-Niskanen and Orpik-Engelland, both of which are just god awful pairings.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Great58 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:23 pm

No excuse for losing to the Flyers. Not this season

As much as I hated watching the game, I'd have to disagree with the above sentiment. Over the course of a long season, bad games and bad stretches happen. The Kings just lost to the Sabres, afterall.

Pens are in a funk offensively. I'm going to attribute it to working a new system.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby the riddler on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:27 pm

The first 10 minutes of the 3rd period were a disaster last night. There was absolutely no attempt to forecheck and almost every player seemed like they were trying to do everything themselves by attempting to skate through a wall of Flyers defensemen. I think that is a situation were the coach needs to recognize that and get his players to do the right thing(dump the puck). Also, why no attempt to change the lines last night? Malkin's line plays too much on the perimeter, they need a guy to go to the net. Putting Kunitz with Neal and Malkin might be a good idea, I think Crosby can have success with Dupuis and either Jokinen or Bennett. Maybe even put Neal with him just to try something. I don't see why these lines have become set in stone.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Shaky Walton on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:36 pm

Dupius again looks lost out there. Maybe his wallet is holding him back
Eye exams for all who can't hit the net from point blank range
Orpik missed the net entirely from 6 ft away. have you seen anyone will less offensive skills than Orpik.
No chemistry of this team at all. They talk a good game but don't play one
Now you know how much fun it is watching NJ Devils hockey. Sorry but this is getting boring. Like watching paint dry.
Engelland should not play D at all ever. He is better at forward but not much
Bennett looks lost out there as well. Looked a lot more creative last year. Not this year.
Letang, don't even get me started. I like him but would like him better playing somewhere else. Imagine what they could have gotten for him.
Disco Dan.......He had a brain scan yesterday and guess what...........they found NOTHING.
I am done for now.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby llipgh2 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:44 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:- MAF has played fantastic lately... and none of the goals can be blamed on him BUT, when are we going to get one of those 'holy cow, he just won the game for the pens' moments.


The bigger questions are:

When are the Pens going to score more than 1 damned goal?

And

When will that goal come at even strength?

Fleury has already won games/kept the Pens in games this season. Time for the rest of the team to step up.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Shaky Walton on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:45 pm

scals37 wrote:
Stevens25 wrote:
Nobody goes to the net and sets up camp, takes the abuse, and sticks their ass in the goalies face (Morrow, as slow as he was, was good at this)


Is there really a lack of players willing to do this? The Pens just can't get anyone to sit their rear end in front of the net.
You know who does a great job of that... Crosby. Is it worth it to put him in front of the net on a few PP until we get it going again? Maybe- but dangerous for him.

They way Letang and the rest of the team was shooting last night, I don't feel comfortable with Sid being in the same building... Who the heck knows where the next shot will end up

When we shoot the safest place to be is in the net where the goalie resides Nobody can hit the 4 x 6. Eye exams for all of them or get them all seeing eye dogs to find the target This is getting old. Just like watching the movie "Groundhog Day"
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby llipgh2 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:47 pm

And HCDB has noted time and again matching lines is not his priority. So we can point out that at times that's not a great philosophy, but it's never going to change.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby wondermoose on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:48 pm

Shaky Walton wrote:Orpik missed the net entirely from 6 ft away.


Because Orpik.

When I saw that chance, I only thought "Why, oh why, did it have to be Orpik!" :lol:
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Great58 on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Shaky Walton wrote:
scals37 wrote:
Stevens25 wrote:
Nobody goes to the net and sets up camp, takes the abuse, and sticks their ass in the goalies face (Morrow, as slow as he was, was good at this)


Is there really a lack of players willing to do this? The Pens just can't get anyone to sit their rear end in front of the net.
You know who does a great job of that... Crosby. Is it worth it to put him in front of the net on a few PP until we get it going again? Maybe- but dangerous for him.

They way Letang and the rest of the team was shooting last night, I don't feel comfortable with Sid being in the same building... Who the heck knows where the next shot will end up

When we shoot the safest place to be is in the net where the goalie resides Nobody can hit the 4 x 6. Eye exams for all of them or get them all seeing eye dogs to find the target This is getting old. Just like watching the movie "Groundhog Day"

I thought you were done for now... before?
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby Lt. Dish on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:52 pm

Game ruined my week. I wish I could move.

When doltish "master strategist" Chris Therien (whose career highlight was playing well vs. Jagr--good for him) sounds basically astounded that DB refuses to match lines, then that should say something if nothing else does. Nothing we all haven't gone over time and time again.

I'm pretty sure Therien also said something about keeping the Pens to the perimeter as a key to the game for the Flyers. The Pens did it for them.

Why no Megna? What's going on there?

How the Pens let two guys behind the D on Schenn's second goal is beyond me. I mean, the hell?

I got more and more frustrated the longer I listed to Lange and Bourque get more and more frustrated.

I thought of how nice it would have been to have Doug Murray in last night--slow as molasses, but smart, mean, big butt, makes things tough, and good as a vertical trampoline for opposing players.

I wish the Pens would assume the Steelers penchant for MOAR SCREENS. I like big butts and I cannot lie.

Does anyone still see Jacques Martin's influence on the team? I don't. I may be missing something and I'm not criticizing Martin; I'm just asking you all.

More goals at the very end of periods. Play until the buzzer, Pens.


Grand scheme:

The Pens are doing their part right now to throw a crappy division up for grabs and let bottom-feeders back in the mix. Hope it doesn't bite them in the arse.

The Pens are easy to play against, and I probably dislike that more than anything--except losing to the Flyers, of course.

It's still early, we're missing key guys on D, we have carousels on the 2nd and 3rd lines, and maybe Shero can make a move.

For the 10,000th time: KCD and DB and the team need to put the team first and break up that line, if only as an experiment. The last few games have crystallized the need.

I love these guys--they're mine, but they frustrate the hell out of me. At times, I think I understand how someone with kids feels.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby lemieuxReturns on Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:57 pm

I thought of how nice it would have been to have Doug Murray in last night


Ha. That is the first time I have heard that this year.
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Re: Game 18 vs Flyers - Thougths from the Morning After

Postby sjnhiils on Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:12 pm

MRandall25 wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:- Why did DB split Bortz and Maatta? They were working really well together, and both are young. Why not just keep them together for years to come if it was working.


Because Martin was out. Otherwise you end up with Letang-Niskanen and Orpik-Engelland, both of which are just god awful pairings.

Weren't Orpik-Engelland out for the start of the game? I think they were out the shift right before the Flyers got their first goal. HCDB had them paired with the fourth line and they couldn't get the puck out of the zone. I think even Edzo said that shift gave the Flyers momentum for their goal.
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