Fire DB

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Re: Fire DB

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:57 pm

shmenguin wrote:i don't know of anyone who complains about clear penalties like orpik does. not only is that a quality of a baby, it's also a sign that he's not an accountable individual.

and i'm not being dramatic, i literally can't think of someone who whines that much.

Meh. Most players chirp at the refs when they're sent to the box. Maybe it's about the penalty. Maybe it's about a missed call on the opponent earlier in the game. Maybe it's about unbalanced calls throughout the game. Maybe it's to tell the refs to watch a specific player or for a specific type of play.

There are a lot of possibilities, and my guess is it varies from penalty to penalty. The fact that he wears an "A" gives him a bit more leeway to chirp, as well.

I really don't think this makes him less accountable or more baby-like. It just is what it is.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Defence21 on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:00 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Im assuming you read it wrog, but i imagine the message was. We need to have the puck in the offensive zone. Try to do that.

I would agree that it likely was read wrong. It's so easy to interpret a quick 3-second shot of a bench in 50 different ways.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby TrueNorth on Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:56 pm

Defence21 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Im assuming you read it wrog, but i imagine the message was. We need to have the puck in the offensive zone. Try to do that.

I would agree that it likely was read wrong. It's so easy to interpret a quick 3-second shot of a bench in 50 different ways.


Although I think this is generally true, there are times when one quick shot pretty much says it all. For example, the look on Bylsma’s face after the Flyer’s second goal--yikes!--left very little open to interpretation: anger, fear, or both--take your pick.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Gaucho on Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:59 pm

lol @ "fear"
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Re: Fire DB

Postby IanMoran on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:06 pm

The debate of the value of Phil Jackson, Belichick, Joe Torre, etc applies here.

How good were they really?? They had MJ, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, Brady, Jeter, etc, etc...

I think its not hyperbole that any coach in NHL could have decent regular season with this team, that's not really an accomplishment at all. I think Pens could have had a dynasty but chances of that are slowly going away.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Penspal on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:13 pm

TrueNorth wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Im assuming you read it wrog, but i imagine the message was. We need to have the puck in the offensive zone. Try to do that.

I would agree that it likely was read wrong. It's so easy to interpret a quick 3-second shot of a bench in 50 different ways.


Although I think this is generally true, there are times when one quick shot pretty much says it all. For example, the look on Bylsma’s face after the Flyer’s second goal--yikes!--left very little open to interpretation: anger, fear, or both--take your pick.


I saw that & mentioned it in the "Morning After" thread. I have seen plenty of shots of HCDB on bench after goals, but never one like that. He's feeling it, whatever it is, and I too thought that I saw fear. Imagine, him and Laviolette both fired prior to the Olympics... Total fiction of course, unless this slide goes for 2 more weeks, then it could be reality.

HCDB has a part to play in this slump.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby columbia on Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:20 pm

DB's future memoir: "Fear and Loathing in Pittsburgh"
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Re: Fire DB

Postby slipshod on Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:03 pm

A real coach says "player A - your job is to get in front of the goalie, and if you won't do it I will get someone who will" I don't think Dan "tells" his players in no uncertain terms what HAS to happen. I think he uses weak language like "where we want you to be" instead of "you go there".

Too much talk of getting "players who are willing" to go to the front of the net. Not enough talk of MAKING the players you already have go to the front of the net. You know... coaching.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:44 am

slipshod wrote:A real coach says "player A - your job is to get in front of the goalie, and if you won't do it I will get someone who will" I don't think Dan "tells" his players in no uncertain terms what HAS to happen. I think he uses weak language like "where we want you to be" instead of "you go there".

Too much talk of getting "players who are willing" to go to the front of the net. Not enough talk of MAKING the players you already have go to the front of the net. You know... coaching.

Bylsma is a notorious X and O's guy. I think he is telling them where they need to go. This thread is so much "have axe, will grind".
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Re: Fire DB

Postby pcm on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:52 am

Great58 wrote:
slipshod wrote:A real coach says "player A - your job is to get in front of the goalie, and if you won't do it I will get someone who will" I don't think Dan "tells" his players in no uncertain terms what HAS to happen. I think he uses weak language like "where we want you to be" instead of "you go there".

Too much talk of getting "players who are willing" to go to the front of the net. Not enough talk of MAKING the players you already have go to the front of the net. You know... coaching.

Bylsma is a notorious X and O's guy. I think he is telling them where they need to go. This thread is so much "have axe, will grind".


Then he's telling them to go to the wrong places. Either way, no one plays in front of the net... 4 years running.

It does though take a special breed to make a living down low. We had a guy like that in Morrow, and Blysma did not use him in that role. At all.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby shafnutz05 on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:52 am

Great58 wrote:Bylsma is a notorious X and O's guy. I think he is telling them where they need to go. This thread is so much "have axe, will grind".


Being a Letang AND Bylsma supporter on this board has to be tiring as hell :lol:
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:57 am

shafnutz05 wrote:
Great58 wrote:Bylsma is a notorious X and O's guy. I think he is telling them where they need to go. This thread is so much "have axe, will grind".


Being a Letang AND Bylsma supporter on this board has to be tiring as hell :lol:

:lol: And I like Geno!
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Penspal on Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:02 pm

columbia wrote:DB's future memoir: "Fear and Loathing in Pittsburgh"


well done!
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:15 pm

pcm wrote:
Great58 wrote:
slipshod wrote:A real coach says "player A - your job is to get in front of the goalie, and if you won't do it I will get someone who will" I don't think Dan "tells" his players in no uncertain terms what HAS to happen. I think he uses weak language like "where we want you to be" instead of "you go there".

Too much talk of getting "players who are willing" to go to the front of the net. Not enough talk of MAKING the players you already have go to the front of the net. You know... coaching.

Bylsma is a notorious X and O's guy. I think he is telling them where they need to go. This thread is so much "have axe, will grind".


Then he's telling them to go to the wrong places. Either way, no one plays in front of the net... 4 years running.

It does though take a special breed to make a living down low. We had a guy like that in Morrow, and Blysma did not use him in that role. At all.

Really? I recall most of Morrow's goals being scored in the dirty areas. Maybe I remember incorrectly though.
Do I at least recall correctly that he broke his kneecap at some point during the playoffs, which may have limited is effectiveness afterwards?
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Re: Fire DB

Postby pcm on Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:41 pm

That's my point exactly. Morrow was very effective down low. But Blysma played him in a defensive checking role on the 3rd line, when our greatest need was for a net front presence. I would have either played him with Malkin-Neal or created a line with Morrow-Jokinen-Bennett that could provide offense from the bottom 6. He also saw very little PP time. A total waste.

We had the personnel last spring, but coaching misused it. If Shero were to go out and acquire the right kind of player, there's a likely chance we'd see the same poor decision making from DB.

He doesn't get the most out of his players. That's enough ground to let him go, regardless of his tactical failures.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby MarioLives on Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:03 pm

So if DB is fired will he still coach the US team? Does that have any impact on his future here? I doubt they fire him before the Olympics
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Re: Fire DB

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:26 pm

MarioLives wrote:So if DB is fired will he still coach the US team? Does that have any impact on his future here? I doubt they fire him before the Olympics

the two are wholely independant.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby penmyst on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:40 pm

Forcing players to go to the net and plant themselves there is not always going to solve the problem.

You need players that wish to play there, and have the skill ability to do something when the puck gets there. Right now, the Pens don't have that guy. Maybe Crosby. Or Kunitz occasionally. And I don't think we want to see Crosby getting hammered on by defenders.

Who else is going to make a living there on this team? Bennett? Jokinen? Neal? They've got the skill, but not the size. Adams? Glass? Engelland? They've got the size/tenacity, but not the skill. <Insert merry-go-round minor leaguers>?? They have neither.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby pcm on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:45 pm

Actually Megna looked willing and able. Just for that I'd have planted him on the 3rd line and told him to keep on trucking...

Maybe Sill can show a little bit of that as well tonight. Not that it'll mean anything...
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Re: Fire DB

Postby ExPatriatePen on Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:45 pm

penmyst wrote:Forcing players to go to the net and plant themselves there is not always going to solve the problem.

You need players that wish to play there, and have the skill ability to do something when the puck gets there. Right now, the Pens don't have that guy. Maybe Crosby. Or Kunitz occasionally. And I don't think we want to see Crosby getting hammered on by defenders.

Who else is going to make a living there on this team? Bennett? Jokinen? Neal? They've got the skill, but not the size. Adams? Glass? Engelland? They've got the size/tenacity, but not the skill. <Insert merry-go-round minor leaguers>?? They have neither.

Honest question. What skills are required to block the field of view of the opposing goalie and to keep your blade on the ice to tip in pucks?

It takes courage and desire as well as physical size, but any special skills? I'm not sure that I agree with that.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Nizzy on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:54 pm

I thought Dan Bylsma should have been fired after the Philadelphia Flyers first round lost. He didn't get fired, the next year the Penguins struggled vs the inexperienced Islanders and Senators. They got to the 3rd round alone based on the talent they provided on the ice. The Boston Bruins made them look like a complete joke out there. 2 Goals in 4 games, he should have been fired, I don't care if it was the East finals. I was backing up Bylsma at the start of the year. They are taking the puck into the zone more, besides just dumping it like a team of grinders. They are generally playing better team defense.

The last 2 playoffs really disappointed me. Not because of the losses but the way they lost. I just don't even want to watch this team with Bylsma anymore. I'm literally sick of seeing his face. Devils score, go up 2-1. Bylsma sends out Tanner Glass, Craig Adams, Zach Sill. LOL? I'm sorry, I've watched Matt Niskanen and Deryk Engelland for 2 seasons+. I'm done with them. They weren't the reason we lost to night, but I'm done with them. I'm tired of the Shero/Bylsma love fest for certain players. Despres should be playing over Engelland. Engelland wouldn't be top 6 on most of the NHL. Despres is a guy who had played well in the NHL. Look how much younger, 4th liners, like Megna look over 36 year old Craig Adams.

This team needs a veteran hockey coach. Malkin needs another Therrien. Team has been more disciplined but Bylsma is still very inexperienced. I can't stand it when he just stands on the bench with a stern look of "im not changing anything" "we're going to beat them with determination!" "just keep it up guys!" "here's a few pats on the back" He's the most predictable coach in the league.

Fire Dan Bylsma - Before another season is lost. 41 year old Jagr just went +4 versus this team.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby wondermoose on Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:58 pm

Count me in. Reminds me to much of how they looked before therrien got canned. If I'm a betting man, the players are getting tired of mixed signals from how often the game plan changes.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:01 pm

Again... Bylsma hater since 2010, but to be fair, the Pens didn't struggle at all vs Ottawa. Doesn't change my opinion on him, but keep history straight.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby wondermoose on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:07 pm

bhaw wrote:Again... Bylsma hater since 2010, but to be fair, the Pens didn't struggle at all vs Ottawa. Doesn't change my opinion on him, but keep history straight.


I still didn't think they played play that well against Ottawa. There were s lot of mistakes in that series, but the Sens didn't have anyone to make Pittsburgh pay for them.

Another big cause for concern is Bylsmas logic in personnel. If Vitale and Megna deserved to sit, then what are Adams and Engelland doing on the ice every night? I simply do not accept Engelland brings anything to the ice that Despres can't provide save the fisticuffs.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Desiato on Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:10 pm

Nizzy wrote:I thought Dan Bylsma should have been fired after the Philadelphia Flyers first round lost. He didn't get fired, the next year the Penguins struggled vs the inexperienced Islanders and Senators. They got to the 3rd round alone based on the talent they provided on the ice. The Boston Bruins made them look like a complete joke out there. 2 Goals in 4 games, he should have been fired, I don't care if it was the East finals. I was backing up Bylsma at the start of the year. They are taking the puck into the zone more, besides just dumping it like a team of grinders. They are generally playing better team defense.


I agree for the most part. When I read in between the lines of the events of this past summer, here's what I see:

- to not extend DB would have been an effective vote of no confidence, so the practical choices were to extend or fire. IMO, his extension is symbolic. If fired this season, he will likely find a new job quickly and therefore won't stay on the books for long.
- because management gave him another shot and we can see the Pens are trying new things, it also makes sense that management is going to give the staff time to make the new things work.
- Jaques Martin is both an attempt by management to instill qualities reflective of his expertise -- otherwise why hire *him*? -- and also an insurance policy that reduces the urgency of an early change as he is the logical candidate to take over mid-season should a change be made.
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