Another "Core" Performance

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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby Steve on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:02 pm

Jim wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Steve wrote:I hear the "country club" term thrown around a lot here - I don't know what that means.

Sure, not benching someone that needs to be benched - that might be an obvious example for us. But do we have insiders here, who are at the closed practices or in the lockerroom, who know that it's a country club atmosphere? Or is this just a term people like to toss around after a few losses, because it sounds good?

Country club, in my opinion, isn't just tossed around lightly. It isn't, however, based on any inside knowledge. From my perspective, country club pertains to the team not making changes, not following the coach's system, players not being held accountable (based on ice time, etc) for mistakes and, more importantly, repeat mistakes. It's not a scientific thing, but I think it's far from a term used to define a few losses.


Exactly. It is a sense of the players just doing what they want, having fun but not having any desire or drive or accountability. Just show up, have a good time with their friends, go home.


Which player(s) are you referring to, who just show up and don't have desire or drive? Starting at the top of the core, that doesn't sound at all accurate for 87, 71 or 58. Now if you want to say Letang isnt' being held accountable for his freelancing, no disagreement from me. Just picking these players, since this thread is about the core - everything I've read and heard, is that these guys work out like crazy during the season and in the offseason etc - and I've heard that Letang spends a ton of time in the film room.

Did you mean other players? I'm not disagreeing with you as I have no idea about MAF or some of the other players - I'm just curious if I'm cheering on some slackers on this team. This team isn't perfect of course - but I think generally they are a hard working team, at least on the ice.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby Defence21 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:07 pm

Steve wrote:
Jim wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
Steve wrote:I hear the "country club" term thrown around a lot here - I don't know what that means.

Sure, not benching someone that needs to be benched - that might be an obvious example for us. But do we have insiders here, who are at the closed practices or in the lockerroom, who know that it's a country club atmosphere? Or is this just a term people like to toss around after a few losses, because it sounds good?

Country club, in my opinion, isn't just tossed around lightly. It isn't, however, based on any inside knowledge. From my perspective, country club pertains to the team not making changes, not following the coach's system, players not being held accountable (based on ice time, etc) for mistakes and, more importantly, repeat mistakes. It's not a scientific thing, but I think it's far from a term used to define a few losses.


Exactly. It is a sense of the players just doing what they want, having fun but not having any desire or drive or accountability. Just show up, have a good time with their friends, go home.


Which player(s) are you referring to, who just show up and don't have desire or drive? Starting at the top of the core, that doesn't sound at all accurate for 87, 71 or 58. Now if you want to say Letang isnt' being held accountable for his freelancing, no disagreement from me. Just picking these players, since this thread is about the core - everything I've read and heard, is that these guys work out like crazy during the season and in the offseason etc - and I've heard that Letang spends a ton of time in the film room.

Did you mean other players? I'm not disagreeing with you as I have no idea about MAF or some of the other players - I'm just curious if I'm cheering on some slackers on this team. This team isn't perfect of course - but I think generally they are a hard working team, at least on the ice.

I don't think it's a matter of the players not working hard, but it is a matter of them not doing what they're told and not being held accountable.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby Jim on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:18 pm

71, 58 and 44 even 16, 12, and 18 can be put into the discussion.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby Steve on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:34 pm

Jim wrote:71, 58 and 44 even 16, 12, and 18 can be put into the discussion.


OK thanks - I don't think there is any lack of drive from Malkin or especially Letang though, but the other general issues of accountability with these two, I can certainly understand why they're in the discussion.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:44 pm

Jim wrote:71, 58 and 44 even 16, 12, and 18 can be put into the discussion.


Kobasew? Not sure why he'd be added into the discussion.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby slipshod on Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:02 pm

Steve wrote:
Jim wrote:71, 58 and 44 even 16, 12, and 18 can be put into the discussion.


OK thanks - I don't think there is any lack of drive from Malkin or especially Letang though, but the other general issues of accountability with these two, I can certainly understand why they're in the discussion.


I agree, it's not that they aren't trying, it's that they are doing fundamentally incorrect and very correctable things.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby Jim on Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:58 am

I am leaning much more towards the accountability side of the discussion, for the most part. How many times so you do something wrong before either you change it or someone tells you to change it (and you listen to them)?
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:05 am

Jim wrote:I am leaning much more towards the accountability side of the discussion, for the most part. How many times so you do something wrong before either you change it or someone tells you to change it (and you listen to them)?


Exactly. The sarcasm of my initial post aside, the effort is there most nights. The problem is that it's the same mistakes by the same people year after year, and the refusal to correct or address any of it. Management, players, and the coaching staff are quite touchy too about even the hint that they may have made a mistake.

The loss of composure is another disturbing trend that has never really been addressed. When a bad bounce goes the other way or they miss on a few good chances, the team sulks and packs it in as opposed to putting the ax to the grind and winning a low scoring game. It wasn't like that in 2008 and 2009 as much. There were always shades of it, but that was always chalked up to the superstars being young and somewhat immature. Now they just come off as petulant. I think a few players feel like they deserve calls or wins or goals. In hockey everything has to be earned, especially when there's hardly an inch of room on the ice to make plays most nights. If Kris Letang had Gary Roberts's hockey sense and mentality, he'd be a 20 goal, 80 point player.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby shmenguin on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:07 am

Do we want him to play smarter or score more points?

I don't think we can have both.
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Re: Another "Core" Performance

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:03 pm

shmenguin wrote:Do we want him to play smarter or score more points?

I don't think we can have both.


Perhaps not at even strength, but Letang has blown so many power plays over the years with his bad decisions, indecision, and ill-advised passes, that one can only wonder how many points he'd rack up if he played smarter with the man advantage.
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