Fire DB

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Re: Fire DB

Postby farnham16 on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:51 pm

Steve wrote:I think the Lightning series was a failure though, because we lost.

Just like the flip side - I can't believe people are suggesting that the Islanders series was a failure, or downplaying it or whatever - we won the series in 6 games - that's all that matters.


Pens played like crap in that series. Bylsma was tremendously outcoached. Pens got outplayed in 4 out of the 6 games. Only won because NYI got the worse goaltending ever seen in playoff history.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby ulf on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:51 pm

Ah yes, we should have lost to NYI, so basically it was a first round exit. Fire DB
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Rylan on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:52 pm

Should have won a series, should have lost a series, should have should have should have....
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:53 pm

farnham16 wrote:
Steve wrote:I think the Lightning series was a failure though, because we lost.

Just like the flip side - I can't believe people are suggesting that the Islanders series was a failure, or downplaying it or whatever - we won the series in 6 games - that's all that matters.


Pens played like crap in that series. Bylsma was tremendously outcoached. Pens got outplayed in 4 out of the 6 games. Only won because NYI got the worse goaltending ever seen in playoff history.

They won that series, and did you watch the previous year's series? Pop
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Re: Fire DB

Postby farnham16 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:32 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
farnham16 wrote:
Steve wrote:I think the Lightning series was a failure though, because we lost.

Just like the flip side - I can't believe people are suggesting that the Islanders series was a failure, or downplaying it or whatever - we won the series in 6 games - that's all that matters.


Pens played like crap in that series. Bylsma was tremendously outcoached. Pens got outplayed in 4 out of the 6 games. Only won because NYI got the worse goaltending ever seen in playoff history.

They won that series, and did you watch the previous year's series? Pop


Yeah, I thought Nabokovs goaltending was worse than anything MAF had given us even.

I don't think the Pens deserved to win that series. They certainly weren't playing playoff hockey. It was sign of things to come.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby penscup on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:11 am

pcm wrote:
penscup wrote:
MRandall25 wrote:I'd argue there's no way they should have even won 3 games that series, let alone won 3 of 4 before losing the rest.


This.

The fact that series went 7 is a testament to Bylsma's good coaching, but instead of giving him some credit for almost pulling the upset and playing a great series with a severely handicapped team, those with an agenda and those who want to try and revise history attempt to label it as a failure.


Except that failure fits the pattern of every other year he's been to the playoffs except the one year where he was brand new, with a team that had been to the finals the year before and was on the rise.

If the pattern was the opposite, and Blysma had a history of getting more out his players than expected, then the analysis would be reversed. But he took over the team right as they neared their peak, and since then, they've gotten worse / more embarassing every year.


Except as they neared their peak they were out of a playoff position that year. Does he get enough credit for taking over a non-playoff team and going on a tear all the way to the Cup? That buys you some time.
If it were so easy to make the playoffs every year with two superstars why couldn't Therrien do it that year? Does Bylsma get enough credit for easily making the playoffs year after year as coach (finishing 1st or 2nd in division every year)?

Yes, expectations are high for this team every year with Crosby & Malkin in their prime years now.
Yes, Bylsma has struggled recently to go deep enough into the playoffs to meet those expectations, but I can see why Shero is reluctant to let him go. Crosby's concussion issue put an extension I think on how long Bylsma would be given to repeat his Cup run. His loss to injury certainly cost the Pens any reasonable chance in 2011 and an argument could be made that it seriously hurt again in 2012 against Philly since Crosby did not have a full season to ready himself for the playoff grind and was likely no where near 100%. That is a factor many still seem to gloss over when evaluating Bylsma's record as well.

It is not as easy as people think for Shero to fire a coach that the players seem to really enjoy playing under, has a consistently excellent regular season record, has a 7-4 overall postseason record during his tenure, and has a Stanley Cup. The grass is just not always greener...
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Steve on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:45 am

farnham16 wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
farnham16 wrote:
Steve wrote:I think the Lightning series was a failure though, because we lost.

Just like the flip side - I can't believe people are suggesting that the Islanders series was a failure, or downplaying it or whatever - we won the series in 6 games - that's all that matters.


Pens played like crap in that series. Bylsma was tremendously outcoached. Pens got outplayed in 4 out of the 6 games. Only won because NYI got the worse goaltending ever seen in playoff history.

They won that series, and did you watch the previous year's series? Pop


Yeah, I thought Nabokovs goaltending was worse than anything MAF had given us even.

I don't think the Pens deserved to win that series. They certainly weren't playing playoff hockey. It was sign of things to come.


How so? The pens won the next series, and the boston series was nothing like the islanders series.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby shmenguin on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:09 am

They overachieved against Tampa. If you could determine the better team after 4 games, they wouldn't use a best of 7 format.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby the wicked child on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:29 am

shmenguin wrote:They overachieved against Tampa. If you could determine the better team after 4 games, they wouldn't use a best of 7 format.

Yeah, I can't get upset about the Tampa series. It's frankly a miracle that they won 3 games despite the talent disparity.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby ExPatriatePen on Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:32 am

This thread is going to be fun this spring.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:31 am

shmenguin wrote:They overachieved against Tampa. If you could determine the better team after 4 games, they wouldn't use a best of 7 format.


I don't think they overachieved against Tampa. That was the season I actually thought we were lucky to finally have a coach like Bylsma and now it's like WTF happened to that guy? Kinda like going home with a girl who appears really hot and then waking up the next day and you're thinking "wow! beer goggles!"

The 2010/2011 season was very impressive. They played a good chunk of time in the regular season with out Sid and Malkin while playing solid down the stretch. Bylsma actually bogged down on them to play responsible hockey which goes to show you that a great coach makes the best with what he has. The problem that eventually caught up to the Penguins which is kind of the problem for the NYR is scoring. You can have great defensive play and goaltending but if you can't score it will eventually catch up to you.

My issue is with what happened to that guy? Where did he go? Maybe he just doesn't know how to handle elite talent?

This goes back to what I was saying earlier: it's not a system that needs to be put in place that Bylsma is missing and it's not necessarily him being out-coached at crucial moments in the game. It's his inability to enforce accountability on his players. Malkin, Sid and Letang are probably the biggest issues with accountability and while that's only three players, it's our three players this team is built around.

All three commit at least two irresponsible plays a game be it a careless/blind pass they attempt, not getting back defensively or just missing assignments and they get away with it. I'm aware they're elite talent and they need to "do their thing" out there, but they still need to play responsible hockey. Let them roam free to do as they please as long as they stick to their assignments and don't try dumb stuff.

Does anyone remember what they put AO through in Washington? Look how that worked out. He's not only found his scoring prowess again, but he's a more complete player than ever before. I think all three could use a little of the AO treatment...more so Malkin and Letang, but Sid needs to be held responsible for those errand passes he makes that nobody ever seems to point out.

These are not player issues, they're coaching issues because the coach does not hold them accountable. If you start holding those players accountable, the rest of the team will follow suite once they realize nobody is immune.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Beveridge on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:22 pm

You make a good point, Hugo. There are guys in the NHL, Cooke for example, that Bylsma has played with or against. He's still young enough that it might be hard to separate those 2 phases of life (player and now coach). This could lead to wanting to be less firm with star players but inserting yourself as the coach with the younger, developing players.

A coach should expect and demand more out of his star players, but not be afraid to be hard on them when they don't play to their level.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby MarioLives on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:24 pm

Someone should make a poll about why Crosby is immune to criticism? I think it would be interesting to see why everyone else gets it but him. Is it because he is leading the league in scoring, so how can he deserve criticism?
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:43 pm

MarioLives wrote:Someone should make a poll about why Crosby is immune to criticism? I think it would be interesting to see why everyone else gets it but him. Is it because he is leading the league in scoring, so how can he deserve criticism?

He should currently be open season for criticism, as he's currently behind Steen for league lead. :pop:
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Re: Fire DB

Postby TrueNorth on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:50 pm

Sid is at the top of the league in points, but only because he got off to a strong start at the beginning of the season. His performance over the last string of games has been underwhelming, to say the least. I have no idea what happened to get him off his game; I just hope he gets back on track sooner rather than later.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:53 pm

If the Pens go on another long winning streak will this thread go quiet like it did earlier in the season? :pop:
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Re: Fire DB

Postby pcm on Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:21 pm

This thread has been quiet through the beginning of the season because there's no chance in hell DB gets fired in the first 15 games of the season after getting extended. Now that we're entering the middle part of the season, it's a fair topic for discussion, even if it might be considered quite the long shot for Shero to can his Olympic coach.

If the team goes on a winning streak, the reasons to fire DB will not disappear. It's all about the timing.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby penmyst on Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:34 pm

pcm wrote:This thread has been quiet through the beginning of the season because there's no chance in hell DB gets fired in the first 15 games of the season after getting extended. Now that we're entering the middle part of the season, it's a fair topic for discussion, even if it might be considered quite the long shot for Shero to can his Olympic coach.

If the team goes on a winning streak, the reasons to fire DB will not disappear. It's all about the timing.


Precisely.

It is almost a certainty that HCDB makes it through the entire season. The only way that doesn't happen is a complete Fukushima type of meltdown and this team is out of the playoff picture. As long as they don't suffer season-ending injuries to several of their top players; that ain't happening.

So this thread shall remain, to be kicked around and catch fire every now and again. But this thread is destined for bigger things. Mainly, to be the venting spot for when the Pens find another inexplicable way to exit the playoffs in the most embarrassing fashion heretofore unimagined. Which they will. And probably tied to HCDB getting outclassed by average opponent coaching or causing the opponent's average goaltender to look like the second coming of Patrick Roy thanks to stale Penguin strategies.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:06 pm

MarioLives wrote:Someone should make a poll about why Crosby is immune to criticism? I think it would be interesting to see why everyone else gets it but him. Is it because he is leading the league in scoring, so how can he deserve criticism?


I think it must be because you selectively don't read posts on this site.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Desiato on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:06 pm

I don't think it's a guarantee DB will finish the season.

Appointing a big-name like Jacques Martin as an assistant is not business as usual. At the very least it shows upper management believes DB required outside help. IMO, Martin is also an insurance policy in case DB is unable to fix whichever deficiencies JM was brought in to help address.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:09 pm

Desiato wrote:I don't think it's a guarantee DB will finish the season.

Appointing a big-name like Jacques Martin as an assistant is not business as usual. At the very least it shows upper management believes DB required outside help. IMO, Martin is also an insurance policy in case DB is unable to fix whichever deficiencies JM was brought in to help address.


Nothing is a guarantee, but I think it's HIGHLY unlikely he gets fired this year especially considering he's the coach of Team USA.

It would have to be a meltdown of epic proportions before the deadline.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:21 pm

Remove the coach of Team USA issue. It's simply unlikely for Bylsma to get fired during the regular season, period. They'd have to be 10 points out of a playoff spot in February to get fired, and that isn't going to happen. Like it or not, once training camp started with him at the helm, he's here for the season.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby westside on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:24 pm

I think the only time we'll see Bylsma fired is after the season and only if a) The pens get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round or b) they make the ECF but get destroyed similar to the Boston series last year.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby meow on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:52 pm

Desiato wrote:I don't think it's a guarantee DB will finish the season.

Appointing a big-name like Jacques Martin as an assistant is not business as usual. At the very least it shows upper management believes DB required outside help. IMO, Martin is also an insurance policy in case DB is unable to fix whichever deficiencies JM was brought in to help address.

People said the same thing when Granato was brought onboard.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Beveridge on Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:57 pm

Granato isn't even in the same zip code as Martin when it comes to head-coach "credentials"
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