Trouble in Steubenville...

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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby obhave on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:06 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:if you meet someone, invite them back to your apartment and they say yes, I think a reasonable person could/would consider that consent if not an invitation to try to "escalate" the situation.

Going back to the apartment is NOT "consent". Unless she says "yes" to specific actions, just her walking into your apartment is not consent to do whatever you want. The yes, was to go to the apartment and continue your interactions. What you must then get is the next "yes" for the actions you want to "escalate" at the apartment. Usually, I'm sure, things escalate when you bring a girl back to your apartment. However, every girl is different in what she wants to do and how far she wants to go. It may be reasonable to think things will escalate, but don't ever say that is consent.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Rylan on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:11 pm

I generally just wait for the girl pounce on me. Problem solved.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby obhave on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:18 pm

Rylan wrote:I generally just wait for the girl pounce on me. Problem solved.

... but did you consent!?
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Rylan on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:19 pm

If I am breathing and talking to her, I have consented.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:00 pm

obhave wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:if you meet someone, invite them back to your apartment and they say yes, I think a reasonable person could/would consider that consent if not an invitation to try to "escalate" the situation.

Going back to the apartment is NOT "consent". Unless she says "yes" to specific actions, just her walking into your apartment is not consent to do whatever you want. The yes, was to go to the apartment and continue your interactions. What you must then get is the next "yes" for the actions you want to "escalate" at the apartment. Usually, I'm sure, things escalate when you bring a girl back to your apartment. However, every girl is different in what she wants to do and how far she wants to go. It may be reasonable to think things will escalate, but don't ever say that is consent.


so is consent an opt in or opt out type of thing? is it where you keep the funk going until one says no or does one need to request permission for entry?
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby obhave on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:
obhave wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:if you meet someone, invite them back to your apartment and they say yes, I think a reasonable person could/would consider that consent if not an invitation to try to "escalate" the situation.

Going back to the apartment is NOT "consent". Unless she says "yes" to specific actions, just her walking into your apartment is not consent to do whatever you want. The yes, was to go to the apartment and continue your interactions. What you must then get is the next "yes" for the actions you want to "escalate" at the apartment. Usually, I'm sure, things escalate when you bring a girl back to your apartment. However, every girl is different in what she wants to do and how far she wants to go. It may be reasonable to think things will escalate, but don't ever say that is consent.


so is consent an opt in or opt out type of thing? is it where you keep the funk going until one says no or does one need to request permission for entry?

Request permission. Some of the problems with rape is people say, well she didn't say "no" so obviously it was okay. In the case of some women, they feel pressured, scared, or confused and are just unable to say no, or maybe they were too drunk. To avoid issues, it is always just better to ask "is this okay?" before moving on. Never assume you have permission, always ask. This way, you know the woman (or man) is comfortable with what you are doing.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Pitts on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:22 pm

blackjack68 wrote:We ARE failing as a society.

:thumb: Big time.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Pitts on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:25 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:if you meet someone, invite them back to your apartment and they say yes, I think a reasonable person could/would consider that consent if not an invitation to try to "escalate" the situation.

Sorry, idoit...do not agree. Just because she said yes to visit doesn't give any man the right to assume she means yes to sex. And, although you my "try to escalate" the situation, if at any time she protests, it needs to end right there, immediately. It's called respect and honor.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Pitts on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:26 pm

obhave wrote:
Rylan wrote:I generally just wait for the girl pounce on me. Problem solved.

... but did you consent!?

Lol..if he's like most guys (myself included), you don't need consent! :)
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Factorial on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:05 pm

You must ask and receive consent for each act. Fill in the blank, "May I _____ with/to you now?".
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby penny lane on Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:09 pm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns- ... 6429.story

The so-called adults in the rape crime are now charged.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:28 pm

Good.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:35 pm

Pitts wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:if you meet someone, invite them back to your apartment and they say yes, I think a reasonable person could/would consider that consent if not an invitation to try to "escalate" the situation.

Sorry, idoit...do not agree. Just because she said yes to visit doesn't give any man the right to assume she means yes to sex. And, although you my "try to escalate" the situation, if at any time she protests, it needs to end right there, immediately. It's called respect and honor.


I know this is an old post, but...

Wait...what? First of all, i'm not talking about a "visit". It should be obvious that I was talking about people going out, meeting each other, then going back to someone's place. Of course no means no, but if they come back to your place and then don't stop you, they definitely consented. Where did you get the idea that anyone here thought that any kind of consent was a blanket yes for anything?
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Sam's Drunk Dog on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:35 pm

Interestingly one of the coaches indicted is a wrestling coach and the other coach is a volunteer coach who was indicted for underage drinking that took place on dates before the rape occurred.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby tifosi77 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:13 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Wait...what? First of all, i'm not talking about a "visit". It should be obvious that I was talking about people going out, meeting each other, then going back to someone's place. Of course no means no, but if they come back to your place and then don't stop you, they definitely consented.

Strictly speaking, that's not consent.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:22 pm

If thats the case then everyone should have a contract set up at their home because no guy is going to sit there and say "is this ok? Is this ok? Is this ok?" And if they did the girl would be out of there in about 7 seconds. It would probably be best for everyone if we just went to arranged marriages and consumatig the marriage was just a duty that you had to perform afterwards.

People can wiggle around it howeverthey want, but societal norms dictate that if you go back to someone's place some night youre consenting to them making an advance, and if you are going along with what happens, there is no way that you are not consenting.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby DudeMan2766 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:35 pm

Are you strictly speaking like two random people at a bar one night meet and go home with each other that night? Or like a first date scenario where they go out and the girl goes back to the guys house to hang out after the nights over? I'd say example one you could see some form of consent, but not necessarily example two.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:45 pm

Defintely 1. I dont know exactly how 2 happens though, i think if the girl is coming back after the first date she is likely someone that will just give you verbal consent. pop. First dates have ended with me going home alone in my experience.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby DudeMan2766 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:45 pm

You know what, nevermind. I don't think I'll be able to put what I'm thinking properly into words. I can see where people misinterpret ID40 and can also see he's point. I now see "consent to make an advance" and if you go home with someone I can see where they're open for that advance. And that doesn't have to mean all the way, could be trying to put your arm around the person or kiss them. Where that wouldn't exactly be okay if you're just having a conversation with someone you meet at a bar or party or something
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:50 pm

I dont even understand the other side of the argument. I cant see where people are coming from. There is no black and white form of consent. Its not like 1 yes equals "do what you will, my safeword is blueberry pancakes".
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Rocco on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:04 am

At the risk of sounding like a fuddy-duddy, there's a pretty easy way to not have to worry about whether or not someone consents.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby bhaw on Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:07 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I dont even understand the other side of the argument. I cant see where people are coming from. There is no black and white form of consent. Its not like 1 yes equals "do what you will, my safeword is blueberry pancakes".


So you don't just do this?

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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby Factorial on Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:37 am

How does this guy only get community service?

A Steubenville High School teacher and coach indicted for failing to report child abuse in the aftermath of two rape investigations involving high school students will perform community service in exchange for dismissal of the charge.

Seth Fluharty, a wrestling coach and special education teacher, struck the deal Friday with state prosecutors in Ohio.

Mr. Fluharty had been accused of failing to report suspected child abuse, a misdemeanor, in regard to the August 2012 rape of a West Virginia girl by two Steubenville High School football players.


http://www.post-gazette.com/local/regio ... z2ygOq0HZH
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby DudeMan2766 on Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:49 pm

http://www.wtrf.com/story/26248983/teen-convicted-in-steubenville-rape-back-on-football-roster

Ma'lik Richmond, one of the boys convicted of rape in the case is back on the field and the roster of Steubenville Big Red. While he was released in January, some (in Steubenville) obviously are saying he's served his time and should be allowed to continue on with his life. While that may be true, even tho the majority think the sentence was way too light, he did serve it time, no matter how :roll: worthy that sentence was) but the problem is should he really be allowed back on that team? Under Reno Soccoccia no less? He's still classified as a sex offender too, which bring up the issue of having a tier II sex offender playing on a high school football team.
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Re: Trouble in Steubenville...

Postby obhave on Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:38 pm

DudeMan2766 wrote:http://www.wtrf.com/story/26248983/teen-convicted-in-steubenville-rape-back-on-football-roster

Ma'lik Richmond, one of the boys convicted of rape in the case is back on the field and the roster of Steubenville Big Red. While he was released in January, some (in Steubenville) obviously are saying he's served his time and should be allowed to continue on with his life. While that may be true, even tho the majority think the sentence was way too light, he did serve it time, no matter how :roll: worthy that sentence was) but the problem is should he really be allowed back on that team? Under Reno Soccoccia no less? He's still classified as a sex offender too, which bring up the issue of having a tier II sex offender playing on a high school football team.


I'm curious what the school would do for other criminal offenses. Would they let him back on if he physically assaulted someone? If he was caught selling drugs? I'm wonder if other criminal offenses would have him off the team. If the answer is yes, then the school continues to show a complete disregard to the victim.
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