Fire DB

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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:00 pm

When has "every little injury" been used as an excuse? The only injury "excuse" that I know of is when both Crosby and Malkin were both out for half a season and yet they still made the playoffs. My memory fails me, I don't recall other coaches making the playoffs with their #1 and #2 centers out for an extended period of time and throughout the playoffs. At that point it isn't an "excuse", it's a reality as to why they lost.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:19 pm

At this point, I'm pretty much convinced you haven't really been paying attention. Hard to argue simple observations. It's like trying to argue with the people who miraculously can't see that the team's "adjustment" to their transition game is to have everyone skate towards the other end of the ice and rely on tape to tape passes through the neutral zone. Or when people can't see that teams who play from around the goal line or behind the net kill us because our defensive coverage for some unexplained reason disappears, where guys literally don't know who they are supposed to cover.

You have apparently blocked out all the excuses the team has made year after year. I'm guessing you forget that DB blamed last year's inability to score on a force field. Not that he just kept skating his team directly into their defense.. a force field. Not his fault... a force field. Yeah, that guy gets it!
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:52 pm

bhaw wrote:At this point, I'm pretty much convinced you haven't really been paying attention. Hard to argue simple observations. It's like trying to argue with the people who miraculously can't see that the team's "adjustment" to their transition game is to have everyone skate towards the other end of the ice and rely on tape to tape passes through the neutral zone. Or when people can't see that teams who play from around the goal line or behind the net kill us because our defensive coverage for some unexplained reason disappears, where guys literally don't know who they are supposed to cover.

You have apparently blocked out all the excuses the team has made year after year. I'm guessing you forget that DB blamed last year's inability to score on a force field. Not that he just kept skating his team directly into their defense.. a force field. Not his fault... a force field. Yeah, that guy gets it!

So you can't give another example where injuries have been used as an explanation for a Byslma team failing? And yet you say that every little injury is given as an apology?

I guess I just don't see how injury is a recurrent source of appology for Byslma's teams' failures.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:08 pm

Have you read any of this thread? This is why I'm not going out of my way to quote things. If you've read the thread instead of poked your head in to point out one thing you think is inconsistent, it wouldn't even be a question. The Bylsmapologists have pointed out Suderi being hurt, forwards being hurt, Modano hurt in the playoffs, etc. There's always an excuse why this team can't get better and fix things (it's actually amusing seeing the people who were using Letang's injury as a reason the team game wasn't working also now screaming about how awful Letang is and needs traded). Injuries is one and Paul Martin being out will be used for the next 2 months. Actually probably longer b/c he has to get back into game shape.

The overall point is that DB has not fixed anything. Pens beat Toronto in a shootout and the Bylsmapologists are all pointing out that we won as why it's unreasonable to be upset at the way the team played. The team is doing the SAME dumb **** they did against Philly 2 playoffs ago. They can't keep their cool and get lured into games where they totally abandon defense. They STILL haven't fixed the damn transition game. How many turnovers do we see each game that lead to odd man breaks because we play super high risk transition? The defensive system has barely improved. Players are allowed to consistently let their emotions dictate their actions and put the team into bad situations. Injuries is a side track and a small piece of the accountability the team refuses to take. It's the mentality that they have the perfect system in place and if the players just executed it, we'd never lose a single game. Clearly that's not the case.

I don't expect you to have followed me, but I've been pretty detailed at going over tactical issues as they happened. This thread is a dumping ground for the frustration I have that this clown of a coach is still employed by a team he is destroying. A lot of it is also in fun, as there's nothing I can control over his coaching or employment, so might as well laugh at it. I've also noted that I don't expect him to be fired anytime soon and have posed options... for example, if Shero believes DB has it figured out, clearly the players can't execute, so we need to start hacking away the cancers. Although there is mixed messages because we keep signing the guys who can't execute this perfect system to long contracts.

There are a lot of things wrong with the team right now, and just bringing in a few guys at the deadline won't fix it. Ultimately, it's a lot easier to find a coach who can work with the wealth of talent we have than it is to find 22 players who can excel in this perimeter offense, high risk transition, zero accountability on defense system we are dead set in playing, regardless of results.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby IanMoran on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:15 pm

Serious question to those of us who are also fans of the Steelers. If DB coached the Steelers, and saw what Worilds did when he switched sides... odds he'd still try to force him to play where he's uncomfortable?

I honestly believe, if DB were the coach Worilds would still be struggling on the right
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:17 pm

False because Worilds would have been benched in favor of Engelland.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:18 pm

Why would I read all of this thread? It's a train wreck. Throughly off the rails.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:20 pm

Great58 wrote:Why would I read all of this thread? It's a train wreck. Throughly off the rails.


No offense, but how in the hell can you question what apologists have or haven't said if you haven't read it? Seems like you were just trying to be nitpicky considering my comments were pretty specific that people have been using that as an excuse. So you just came in here and stated that no one is using it as an excuse without even knowing? I'm confused on what your point is now...
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:23 pm

You arent confused, there just isnt a point.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby bhaw on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:26 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:You arent confused, there just isnt a point.


Well basically what I just read when I put the comments together is that "I haven't seen anyone say that injuries are an excuse in the thread I haven't actually read."
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Re: Fire DB

Postby columbia on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:39 pm

I still treasure my Modano jersey.
.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:45 pm

bhaw wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:You arent confused, there just isnt a point.


Well basically what I just read when I put the comments together is that "I haven't seen anyone say that injuries are an excuse in the thread I haven't actually read."

Maybe I missed the relevant posts between the Dustin Penner +/- debate and the Staal wasn't a good pick because the Canes wouldn't give us Skinner for him. But other than discussion of the Lightning series, I don't see the use of injuries as an excuse in favor of DB.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby danish_penguin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:53 pm

iceolater wrote:Orpik USED to be feared and patient with the puck, moved it out but he is out of position, wont clear anyone and only hits those already out of position or smaller then him. Shero..PLEASE make a trade or else we are out in round 1 maybe 2 of the playoffs with this team as it is.


Plus/minus for our defensemen looks like this:
Niskanen +12 (!!!!)
Scuderi +5

Opik 0
Martin -1
Maatta -1

Bortuzzo -3
Engelland -4

Letang -8

And since Orpik plays against top-lines, being even is not bad. Letang is a much, much bigger problem. :face: Maybe he should stick to the power play...
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Re: Fire DB

Postby danish_penguin on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:09 pm

BitterClinger wrote:Agree with murphy, coaches need to coach not be the players best friend or shoulder to cry on when things aren't going their way.


That's what assistant coaches are for. The head coach must be much harder than an assisant coach. Michel Therrien was maybe to hard but at least the players were working hard most of the games exept one.



Guys like Bylsma and Therrien only last 2 or 3 seasons. With Therrien the players eventually find him crazy and with Bylsma they lose the respect for him. I wonder how Lindy Ruff and Bary Trotz could/can stay with the same team year after year.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Crankshaft on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:37 pm

danish_penguin wrote:
iceolater wrote:Orpik USED to be feared and patient with the puck, moved it out but he is out of position, wont clear anyone and only hits those already out of position or smaller then him. Shero..PLEASE make a trade or else we are out in round 1 maybe 2 of the playoffs with this team as it is.


Plus/minus for our defensemen looks like this:
Niskanen +12 (!!!!)
Scuderi +5

Opik 0
Martin -1
Maatta -1

Bortuzzo -3
Engelland -4

Letang -8

And since Orpik plays against top-lines, being even is not bad. Letang is a much, much bigger problem. :face: Maybe he should stick to the power play...


Image

:lol:
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Re: Fire DB

Postby murphydump55 on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:29 pm

bhaw wrote:Have you read any of this thread? This is why I'm not going out of my way to quote things. If you've read the thread instead of poked your head in to point out one thing you think is inconsistent, it wouldn't even be a question. The Bylsmapologists have pointed out Suderi being hurt, forwards being hurt, Modano hurt in the playoffs, etc. There's always an excuse why this team can't get better and fix things (it's actually amusing seeing the people who were using Letang's injury as a reason the team game wasn't working also now screaming about how awful Letang is and needs traded). Injuries is one and Paul Martin being out will be used for the next 2 months. Actually probably longer b/c he has to get back into game shape.

The overall point is that DB has not fixed anything. Pens beat Toronto in a shootout and the Bylsmapologists are all pointing out that we won as why it's unreasonable to be upset at the way the team played. The team is doing the SAME dumb **** they did against Philly 2 playoffs ago. They can't keep their cool and get lured into games where they totally abandon defense. They STILL haven't fixed the damn transition game. How many turnovers do we see each game that lead to odd man breaks because we play super high risk transition? The defensive system has barely improved. Players are allowed to consistently let their emotions dictate their actions and put the team into bad situations. Injuries is a side track and a small piece of the accountability the team refuses to take. It's the mentality that they have the perfect system in place and if the players just executed it, we'd never lose a single game. Clearly that's not the case.

I don't expect you to have followed me, but I've been pretty detailed at going over tactical issues as they happened. This thread is a dumping ground for the frustration I have that this clown of a coach is still employed by a team he is destroying. A lot of it is also in fun, as there's nothing I can control over his coaching or employment, so might as well laugh at it. I've also noted that I don't expect him to be fired anytime soon and have posed options... for example, if Shero believes DB has it figured out, clearly the players can't execute, so we need to start hacking away the cancers. Although there is mixed messages because we keep signing the guys who can't execute this perfect system to long contracts.

There are a lot of things wrong with the team right now, and just bringing in a few guys at the deadline won't fix it. Ultimately, it's a lot easier to find a coach who can work with the wealth of talent we have than it is to find 22 players who can excel in this perimeter offense, high risk transition, zero accountability on defense system we are dead set in playing, regardless of results.


Great post Bhaw. I agree entirely!

Btw, has anyone watched much of Iginla on Boston? Man, that's the Iginla I wanted on the Penguins. But nope, leave it up to Bylsma to completely WASTE that trade and put the guy on a wing he hasn't played in 18 friggin years and didn't even care to address it. He's looking better every game there.

I've said it before, Bylsma is hurting this team more than he helps it.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Idoit40fans on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:33 pm

Neal is playing better now than iginla is now. Bylsma didnt mismanage iginla, iginla just didnt do what he was brought in for. And he wasnt brought in to score.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby The Snapshot on Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:35 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
bhaw wrote:Have you read any of this thread? This is why I'm not going out of my way to quote things. If you've read the thread instead of poked your head in to point out one thing you think is inconsistent, it wouldn't even be a question. The Bylsmapologists have pointed out Suderi being hurt, forwards being hurt, Modano hurt in the playoffs, etc. There's always an excuse why this team can't get better and fix things (it's actually amusing seeing the people who were using Letang's injury as a reason the team game wasn't working also now screaming about how awful Letang is and needs traded). Injuries is one and Paul Martin being out will be used for the next 2 months. Actually probably longer b/c he has to get back into game shape.

The overall point is that DB has not fixed anything. Pens beat Toronto in a shootout and the Bylsmapologists are all pointing out that we won as why it's unreasonable to be upset at the way the team played. The team is doing the SAME dumb **** they did against Philly 2 playoffs ago. They can't keep their cool and get lured into games where they totally abandon defense. They STILL haven't fixed the damn transition game. How many turnovers do we see each game that lead to odd man breaks because we play super high risk transition? The defensive system has barely improved. Players are allowed to consistently let their emotions dictate their actions and put the team into bad situations. Injuries is a side track and a small piece of the accountability the team refuses to take. It's the mentality that they have the perfect system in place and if the players just executed it, we'd never lose a single game. Clearly that's not the case.

I don't expect you to have followed me, but I've been pretty detailed at going over tactical issues as they happened. This thread is a dumping ground for the frustration I have that this clown of a coach is still employed by a team he is destroying. A lot of it is also in fun, as there's nothing I can control over his coaching or employment, so might as well laugh at it. I've also noted that I don't expect him to be fired anytime soon and have posed options... for example, if Shero believes DB has it figured out, clearly the players can't execute, so we need to start hacking away the cancers. Although there is mixed messages because we keep signing the guys who can't execute this perfect system to long contracts.

There are a lot of things wrong with the team right now, and just bringing in a few guys at the deadline won't fix it. Ultimately, it's a lot easier to find a coach who can work with the wealth of talent we have than it is to find 22 players who can excel in this perimeter offense, high risk transition, zero accountability on defense system we are dead set in playing, regardless of results.


Great post Bhaw. I agree entirely!

Btw, has anyone watched much of Iginla on Boston? Man, that's the Iginla I wanted on the Penguins. But nope, leave it up to Bylsma to completely WASTE that trade and put the guy on a wing he hasn't played in 18 friggin years and didn't even care to address it. He's looking better every game there.

I've said it before, Bylsma is hurting this team more than he helps it.


I've watched Iginla in Boston almost every night. He does nothing but rip shots for which he does nothing but find open space. He had no wheels left and basically is a shell of his old self. Not sure how that is different than what he gave here. If that is an indictment of anyone, it is of fans who didn't realize what we were getting.

The team has issues. Not saying they don't. Not saying Bylsma isn't the problem or at least a big part of it, but pointing to Iginla who does nothing on many nights in Boston isn't a good part of that argument. He is scoring at a lesser rate than he did here and is often invisible.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:29 pm

murphydump55 wrote:
Btw, has anyone watched much of Iginla on Boston? Man, that's the Iginla I wanted on the Penguins. But nope, leave it up to Bylsma to completely WASTE that trade and put the guy on a wing he hasn't played in 18 friggin years and didn't even care to address it. He's looking better every game there.

He is? He has one more point there than Dupuis, who everyone here is bemoaning his lack of production.
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Re: Fire DB

Postby Great58 on Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:33 pm

The Snapshot wrote:I've watched Iginla in Boston almost every night. He does nothing but rip shots for which he does nothing but find open space. He had no wheels left and basically is a shell of his old self. Not sure how that is different than what he gave here. If that is an indictment of anyone, it is of fans who didn't realize what we were getting.

I blame Shero, I don't think he realized what Iginla had become. I'm just glad Shero didn't multiply his mistake by trying to resign Jerome. I think Peter Chiarelli looks a bit like Glenn Sather and Paul Holmgren in giving big $ to a past-his-prime player. Lucky for Chiarelli it was only one year, and they were able to do some creative cap management to keep it from hurting them too badly.
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