OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:23 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
Fire0nice228 wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:
thepittman wrote:Calling out Scuds is about as low as it gets though. The deal we have with him is fine and he will contribute greatly to the team once he is healthy.


I think if anything, you have to wonder why we would tie up 7+ million long term in a defenseman that really doesn't make us better, you know, defensively.

I don't see how you can consider keeping Orpik and Nisky with Scuds and Martin under contract and a very talented group of kids that are ready to play regularly.



Its a bit early for that IMO, but the question is for THIS team, in win RIGHT NOW mode, a core that needs one, if not two more cups to really cement itself, are those kids all in the lineup at the same time the way to go...


I agree but if nothing else, I think the defensive depth we have now makes Nisky movable should a decent asset be offered. No reason to lose him for nothing. Despres and Borts both seem capable of playing third pairing minutes.

We are really talking about two spots for next year. Letang, as painful as that may be, along with Martin, Scuderi and Maata are going to be 4 of the 6. There is no reason not to keep Engllend as a 7th/swing 4th liner for a bit more stability.

The biggest move letang will make anytime soon would be back and forth from first to second pair or first to second pp unit.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby MRandall25 on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:24 pm

They'll reference the winging of Bortuzzo's arm to say it is suspendable.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby letsgoalpens on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:32 pm

The pens are going to look great on 24/7. Beating the Wings and Leafs in back to back games while Crosby has 3 goals in those games is going to be cool to watch. The first episode was great, as always.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Stevo on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:41 pm

GDR wrote:Can't help but notice how much better the team defense is without #58


Man do I hope Letang is the odd man out in the future. By that I mean traded. I said it, I don't even care.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Dan H on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:44 pm

NJ5934 wrote:(snip)I agree but if nothing else, I think the defensive depth we have now makes Nisky movable should a decent asset be offered. No reason to lose him for nothing. Despres and Borts both seem capable of playing third pairing minutes.(snip)

It might be worth pointing out that if Shero thinks the Pens have a shot to make a playoff run this year, having Niskanen for the end of the season + playoffs means he wouldn't be lost "for nothing" when he walks away after the season. What if having Niskanen allows them to start him instead of Dumoulin in the Eastern Conference Finals, should the Pens get that far and have a bunch of defensemen injured? Shero really has three options here with Niskanen. He can trade him for prospects/picks (bolstering the future), trade him for a rental forward (trading immediate defense for immediate forward depth) or hang onto him (keeping a strong immediate defense).
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:47 pm

Odd that people would talk about trading niskanen given that he was the only true nhl defenseman coming into this season that was in the lineup tonight.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby GDR on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:52 pm

NHL Player Safety ‏@NHLPlayerSafety 47s
In looking at Bortuzzo/D'Amigo, we see unavoidable head contact on an otherwise full body hit. Will not be pursuing supplemental discipline.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:53 pm

I am shocked that they went that way. Unavoidable is right though.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby ILikeTurtles on Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:55 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:Odd that people would talk about trading niskanen given that he was the only true nhl defenseman coming into this season that was in the lineup tonight.

Despres was considered a top 4 defensemen by HCDB after the playoffs nor can you expect to lose Martin, Scuderi, Letang, and Orpik at the same time.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Rocco on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:03 am

GDR wrote:NHL Player Safety ‏@NHLPlayerSafety 47s
In looking at Bortuzzo/D'Amigo, we see unavoidable head contact on an otherwise full body hit. Will not be pursuing supplemental discipline.


I thought they might fine him for raising his arm during the hit. There wasn't a whole lot he could do about the actual hit though.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Idoit40fans on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:49 am

ILikeTurtles wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:Odd that people would talk about trading niskanen given that he was the only true nhl defenseman coming into this season that was in the lineup tonight.

Despres was considered a top 4 defensemen by HCDB after the playoffs nor can you expect to lose Martin, Scuderi, Letang, and Orpik at the same time.

How can you not expect them to be lost at the same time when that scenario is being played out right now?
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Shaky Walton on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:54 am

Idoit40fans wrote:
farnham16 wrote:I like Scuderi, but seeing the way the young dmen have played really makes that 4 year deal look not so good. Small gripe.

Its several dozens of games early to say something about that. Consistency is the primary difference between young and vet defensemen. Scuderi is the consistency totem of the hockey gods.

But everybody is always complaining about mistakes being made by players who should know better. These guys are not making those bonehead mistakes and clearing the zone quickly. I keep telling you people about those young legs. The torch is being passed right before our eyes. These you Dmen are good, very good. No free lancing going on, sound fundamental tough hockey.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Factorial on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:56 am

Put them all on waivers once they are healthy?
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby PensFanInDC on Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:58 am

How does Bortz not get a star?
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Shaky Walton on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:01 am

DelPen wrote:Bortuzzo can replace Orpik next year. Despres will take Niskanen's spot unless Letang is moved and we keep him. After that we can talk about replacing Martin when his contact us up.

But the future is bright. These guys are much better than a a few years back when we saw Engellend, Strait, Lovejoy and Guenin up together.

I keep saying Orpik is expendable and I keep getting the needle. These young guys can play. I love that they are getting a chance to prove themselves.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Lt. Dish on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:21 am

She'sTheFastest wrote:
Lt. Dish wrote:LOVE Bortuzzo and Maatta and their heart.


They have two. :pop:


:D

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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby mikey287 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:22 am

Handedness, mobility, hockey sense all issues for Bortuzzo replacing Orpik. Bortuzzo replaces Engelland, not much more than that...hope he's a quality third pairing guy for us so we can move Engo or move Engo to forward...
Last edited by mikey287 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Lt. Dish on Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:23 am

GDR wrote:NHL Player Safety ‏@NHLPlayerSafety 47s
In looking at Bortuzzo/D'Amigo, we see unavoidable head contact on an otherwise full body hit. Will not be pursuing supplemental discipline.


When I read this tweet, I thought,

"My name is Bortuzzo D'Amigo. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby Pens4Life on Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 am

I think young guys,ahl squdra played another solid game .. Despres was once again great,also I really like what Sil and Z bring to the lineup. Both regular 4th liners next season with Vitale?
Sutter was maybe best our forward in a game, Jokinen, Vitale, Connor all good and noticable, Maata played good, Nisky should be better..Megna again played soo little ,that I dont know why Bylsma ignores him or what? MAF was really good after that weak goal.. Duper and Kunitz were just bad,mistakes,both at times looked lost..
I also think Niskanen could be the odd man out on D this year,I would keep him,but his contract is expiring so.. Despres is playing so good,he should stay up.. Martin - Orpik, Letang - Scuderi, Despres - Maata, Bortuzzo - Engelland
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby darkstar57 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:49 am

Shaky Walton wrote:
Idoit40fans wrote:
farnham16 wrote:I like Scuderi, but seeing the way the young dmen have played really makes that 4 year deal look not so good. Small gripe.

Its several dozens of games early to say something about that. Consistency is the primary difference between young and vet defensemen. Scuderi is the consistency totem of the hockey gods.

But everybody is always complaining about mistakes being made by players who should know better. These guys are not making those bonehead mistakes and clearing the zone quickly. I keep telling you people about those young legs. The torch is being passed right before our eyes. These you Dmen are good, very good. No free lancing going on, sound fundamental tough hockey.


Young legs are great, but eastern conference finals, possibly against the bruins, the young legs will crap their pants when the bruins are constantly hammering them. They look great in December but March and June in a whole other story.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:56 am

I was surprised when they signed another defenseman in the offseason, but replacing Eaton with Scuderi was a big upgrade. The entire team defense is better without Letang, and the power play is better with Martin running it. When everyone is healthy, Bortuzzo and Despres don't have room in the lineup, and Bylsma plays Engelland inexplicably over those two.

They need a forward or two, and trading a defenseman is the logical scenario. My hope is that Shero trades Letang for a top 6 winger, and that would allow Dupuis to move to the third line, solving a ton of problems.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby pcm on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:11 am

mikey287 wrote:Handedness, mobility, hockey sense all issues for Bortuzzo replacing Orpik. Bortuzzo replaces Engelland, not much more than that...hope he's a quality third pairing guy for us so we can move Engo or move Engo to forward...


Bort's role (assuming he keeps one) will be different than either Engo or Orpik. He brings a fiesty-get-under-the-opponents-skin play that we haven't seen from a dman in a long time. He's big and rangy too. Orpik, Engelland, and Bort all play "strong", but I see Bort's role being much more similar to what we saw from Hall Gill. Gill played @ 18 - 20 minutes a night with Scuderi.

I could see the exact same from Bortuzzo. I'd love to see him paired with Scuderi in a shutdown role, getting under opponent's skin and owning the front of the net.
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby pcm on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:15 am

Dan H wrote:
NJ5934 wrote:(snip)I agree but if nothing else, I think the defensive depth we have now makes Nisky movable should a decent asset be offered. No reason to lose him for nothing. Despres and Borts both seem capable of playing third pairing minutes.(snip)

It might be worth pointing out that if Shero thinks the Pens have a shot to make a playoff run this year, having Niskanen for the end of the season + playoffs means he wouldn't be lost "for nothing" when he walks away after the season. What if having Niskanen allows them to start him instead of Dumoulin in the Eastern Conference Finals, should the Pens get that far and have a bunch of defensemen injured? Shero really has three options here with Niskanen. He can trade him for prospects/picks (bolstering the future), trade him for a rental forward (trading immediate defense for immediate forward depth) or hang onto him (keeping a strong immediate defense).



Niskanen's value as a #5 who can move up into the top 4 is less than the value of a forward we'd potentially acquire for him. We've got a huge need for depth up front. While we have Despres totally capable of taking Niskanen's role. And Dumoulin ready to move up into Despres' role...
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Re: OFFICIAL GDT: MAPLE LEAFS VS PENS (12/16/13)

Postby RxBandit66 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:15 am

mikey287 wrote:Handedness, mobility, hockey sense all issues for Bortuzzo replacing Orpik. Bortuzzo replaces Engelland, not much more than that...hope he's a quality third pairing guy for us so we can move Engo or move Engo to forward...


Agreed, although Bortuzzo has at least a little bit of upside, whereas Engelland has none at his age.
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