Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby columbia on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:18 pm

Maybe I'm wrong about it, but I thought I saw an indifference towards re-signing Sutter earlier in this thread.
Looking at their depth chart, he's not particularly replaceable with an internal option. Also, you're not going to get a player with his positive attributes, on the open market and at a cheaper price.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:32 pm

There's not a huge gap in salary between a comparable UFA and the price we'll pay to resign him. Less than a mill per year. maybe even something like 500k. Though it's not like comparable players grow on trees.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby DelPen on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:46 pm

Sutter will be tendered and resign close to it for a year or two.

It was a necessary trade but Sutter's stint as a Penguin won't be anything special. Who were the 3rd line centers between Trottier and Staal? It doesn't matter.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:57 pm

Stoll makes 3.25. Chris Kelly makes 3. Both of those were UFA re-ups, right? As an RFA, Sutter should get 2.75 or so. If he gets any more than 3, I'd call it a bad deal (relatively speaking of course).
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:21 pm

shmenguin wrote:I don't follow. Without dumoulin and pouliot, we still have depres and harrington waiting to step in. We could also be dangling them as trade bait, and still be ok. We just lose the luxury of having infinity dmen in the system - which, again, is a luxury. Don't get me wrong, from an asset management POV, that trade was a stunning success, but it didn't really address any specific need - aside from getting a good not great 3rd line center.


My point really is that some folks don't seem to realize what our farm system would look like and our potential trade deadline without that trade. I disagree that without that trade we would be ok dangling Harrington and maybe another. Our system would be almost completely empty if we did. Bort and Samuelson types are ok prospects at best but nobody is confusing them for serious trade bait or potential.

You could argue that we should have taken a forward with the trade pick up first round pick or included a forward prospect and not d in the trade. But either way our overall depth would be completely different without that trade. Matta, Despres, Harrington and Bennett. Not much else of real note. Drop one or two of them in a trade, lose Nisky to UFA and our future would look a lot different.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby BurghersAndDogsSports on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:23 pm

columbia wrote:Maybe I'm wrong about it, but I thought I saw an indifference towards re-signing Sutter earlier in this thread.
Looking at their depth chart, he's not particularly replaceable with an internal option. Also, you're not going to get a player with his positive attributes, on the open market and at a cheaper price.


Agreed.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Pitts on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:00 pm

Hugo Stiglitz wrote:Why do we need to keep revisiting this?

It really, really, REALLY gets old.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Crankshaft on Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:20 pm

This isn't the first time no name created this same thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61649
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Beveridge on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:07 pm

Since the trade, neither has won a cup.

Therefore, it's a tie.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby mikey287 on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:12 pm

So we won Naslund for Stojanov? ;)
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Beveridge on Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:18 pm

mikey287 wrote:So we won Naslund for Stojanov? ;)


I'd like to think that any move that got us player A through Z when you win the cup(s), was a win.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:57 pm

Crankshaft wrote:This isn't the first time no name created this same thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61649


The examined trade is one worth revisiting.... Plus this board since the olympics has been dead and hoped this would provoke some discussion.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby sil on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:25 pm

shmenguin wrote:Stoll makes 3.25. Chris Kelly makes 3. Both of those were UFA re-ups, right? As an RFA, Sutter should get 2.75 or so. If he gets any more than 3, I'd call it a bad deal (relatively speaking of course).


Kelly is actually a really good comparable for Sutter...in more ways than one actually. He signed his deal before last season when we were looking at the cap making a big drop due to the impending lockout. $2.75 is where it starts, and it more than likely ends at $13M over 4 years ($3.25 per).
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby columbia on Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:27 pm

The good (and bad?) thing about Sutter is that you know exactly what you're going to get from him. That makes it easier to feel comfortable with a particular cap hit.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby JS© on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:36 pm

shmenguin wrote:Yes. I was being snarky. I figure that's just assumed.

If Sutter is a 200 foot player, then almost everyone is.


Image
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Idoit40fans on Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:50 pm

shmenguin wrote:'09 seems like empirical evidence that it was the right strategy.

I want to go back to this. '09 is evidence that the correct strategy is having multiple major contributors still on ELCs.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:06 am

I don't think you know what I was responding to.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:10 am

I dont need to. I only needed two bits of information. 1. Its you. 2. Its a sutter thread.

Really it doesnt matter where they were playing. My point stands.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby shmenguin on Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:14 am

I guess you won't bother checking to see how off you were, then.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:15 am

Like i said. I dont need to. Positioning doesnt matter, getting value greater than what youre paying for matters.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Stevens25 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:10 am

I wish I could find a video to show this, but at the end of every game, it is Sutter who congratulates the goalie last.
He is the definition of a coaches son, and something that this team needs. I would hate to lose him.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby Juice on Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:00 am

Idoit40fans wrote:I dont need to. I only needed two bits of information. 1. Its you. 2. Its a sutter thread.

Really it doesnt matter where they were playing. My point stands.

your location makes this little exchange especially delicious
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:57 pm

I think in the end the only real way to look at this is, we had to trade Jordan. He didn't want to be here and really wanted to play with his brother. I can't fault him or blame him for that. What Ray was able to get in return for him concidering he had no real leverage to work with. He could of traded him to another team but that would of been for one year or held onto him to play out that year but that just delayed his arrival in Carolina.

All in all Sutter has been what he has been advertised. A solid 2-way 3rdline center who in a good season can net you 20 goals. If we still had Cooke and Kennedy as our 3rd liners I would feel better going into the playoffs. His cap hit shouldn't break the bank when he lands a new deal and that is welcome on a team who needs to use that open room wisely.

As for the other 2 parts of the deal.. 1st round - 8th overall pick, that in its own would of been enough to close the deal and make you feel like you won. Adding in Dumoulin, "whom I liked even before we got him" made the deal really worth it.

Jordans stats only scratch the surface of what he does in Carolina. He is doing more for his team that his stats tell. He is a quality center for that team but in the end for any team I think he makes to much $. Especially if that $ was being paid by the Penguins it wouldn't of worked out well cap wise for us.
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby darkstar57 on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:09 pm

I would also say the trade now involves maata, if we don't do that trade and get the 8th, we probably take poiliot with the 22nd if he is still there
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Re: Staal vs Sutter 2 years after

Postby no name on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:52 pm

darkstar57 wrote:I would also say the trade now involves maata, if we don't do that trade and get the 8th, we probably take poiliot with the 22nd if he is still there



that is up in the air as who knows if Poiliot would still be available at the 22nd spot if we didn't take him. Oddly enough in that draft Maatta was projected in most mock drafts to go 10-15 (he lasted 22nd) and Poiliot was projected to go 15-20 (was taken 8th).
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