Whitney out with pulled groin

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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:12 pm

Ben Klingston wrote:
edog wrote:do you honestly think Alfredsson & Heatley (or even Comrie for that matter) would have run rampant deep in our zone last spring with Gill out there.....


No. Instead of playing down low and in front of the net, like they did, they would have skated around Hal's large inept ass and scored off the rush.

Hal would get mad, would clear the crease (taking some dumb penalties in the process), and may dish out a few big hits. But it's the playoffs and guys will take a hit to score a goal... even Comrie or Orange Sherbert. If they were excited to be able to play down low against Whitney, they sure as hell would have loved to back Hal in from his own blue line.

If this was 1998 and we either 1) had Jags, or 2) were playing against Jags, I'd take Hal. Now? Blech.


Stanley Cups are won & lost in front of the net....the wings have to support on the outside....down low, we got beat....subsequently we lost big in the playoffs....
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Postby Draftnik on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:13 pm

Jesse wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:Draftnik:

don't bother with the stats. The Whitney hate club is too irrational to
be bothered with mathematical data.

All hail the savior KL. He will obviously lead us to the promised land.



I forgot that stats were the end all/be all of the NHL.

Now we're going to crucify Letang for not putting up points as a rookie.


Whit had 38 points in 68 games as a rookie. Letang won't come close to that.

Letang has been brutal in the last 10 games. No points and -5. He isn't held to the same standard as Whit because he hits. Letang was graded very gently by the subjective TO stat guy today. He is making terrible decisions with the puck.

I'm not saying you have said it but the notion that he or Gogo could replace Whit is nonsensical.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:16 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Jesse wrote:
bill from turtle creek wrote:Draftnik:

don't bother with the stats. The Whitney hate club is too irrational to
be bothered with mathematical data.

All hail the savior KL. He will obviously lead us to the promised land.



I forgot that stats were the end all/be all of the NHL.

Now we're going to crucify Letang for not putting up points as a rookie.


Whit had 38 points in 68 games as a rookie. Letang won't come close to that.

Letang has been brutal in the last 10 games. No points and -5. He isn't held to the same standard as Whit because he hits. Letang was graded very gently by the subjective TO stat guy today. He is making terrible decisions with the puck.

I'm not saying you have said it but the notion that he or Gogo could replace Whit is nonsensical.


yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....
edog
 

Postby Draftnik on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:16 pm

edog wrote:Stanley Cups are won & lost in front of the net....the wings have to support on the outside....down low, we got beat....subsequently we lost big in the playoffs....


Hal Gill sucks. In his nearly 10 NHL seasons he hasn't won a Cup. He has only won 1 playoff series. He won't help the Pens win the Cup.

Just because Gill is large and hits doesn't mean he is a competent NHL defender.
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Postby Draftnik on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:18 pm

edog wrote:yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....


Make excuses. Games are decided by goals for and goals against, not subjective agendas.
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Postby Ben Klingston on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:18 pm

edog wrote:
Ben Klingston wrote:
edog wrote:do you honestly think Alfredsson & Heatley (or even Comrie for that matter) would have run rampant deep in our zone last spring with Gill out there.....


No. Instead of playing down low and in front of the net, like they did, they would have skated around Hal's large inept ass and scored off the rush.

Hal would get mad, would clear the crease (taking some dumb penalties in the process), and may dish out a few big hits. But it's the playoffs and guys will take a hit to score a goal... even Comrie or Orange Sherbert. If they were excited to be able to play down low against Whitney, they sure as hell would have loved to back Hal in from his own blue line.

If this was 1998 and we either 1) had Jags, or 2) were playing against Jags, I'd take Hal. Now? Blech.


Stanley Cups are won & lost in front of the net....the wings have to support on the outside....down low, we got beat....subsequently we lost big in the playoffs....


I not disputing that play in front of the net is huge, and that it played a big part in last year's loss. But just because Hal Gill *may* improve play in front of our net doesn't mean his other weaknesses don't offer the opposition just as many good chances... and I'm not talking shots from the point... I'm talking scoring off the rush or out-skating him off the boards from down low.
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Postby cs6687 on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:21 pm

Anyone who thinks Whitney is less valuable to this team or worse than Letang needs to a) quit smoking whatever stuff they have, b) quit drinking so much, and c) quit taking so many blows to the head.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:22 pm

Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:Stanley Cups are won & lost in front of the net....the wings have to support on the outside....down low, we got beat....subsequently we lost big in the playoffs....


Hal Gill sucks. In his nearly 10 NHL seasons he hasn't won a Cup. He has only won 1 playoff series. He won't help the Pens win the Cup.

Just because Gill is large and hits doesn't mean he is a competent NHL defender.


Ryan Whitney will never lead this team to a Cup with his play.....
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Postby cs6687 on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:23 pm

Ryan Whitney will never have to be in a position to lead this team to a Cup. Please, stop with the Whitney bashing.
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Postby Sarcastic on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:24 pm

The two of you need to meet up somewhere and duke it out.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:25 pm

Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....


Make excuses. Games are decided by goals for and goals against, not subjective agendas.


you were the one making excuses for NT's play earlier this season & especially last season by using the "inexperience" card..... :roll:

I don't care if a young guy makes mistakes, but when he leeches off of others for his production & does nothing to improve on shortcomings, I have a huge problem with that player.....
Last edited by edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:26 pm

cs6687 wrote:Ryan Whitney will never have to be in a position to lead this team to a Cup. Please, stop with the Whitney bashing.


he is one of the perceived leaders on this club.....
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Postby Kovy27 on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:28 pm

edog wrote:
cs6687 wrote:Ryan Whitney will never have to be in a position to lead this team to a Cup. Please, stop with the Whitney bashing.


he is one of the perceived leaders on this club.....


I don't see an "A" on his chest....how can he be a leader? That's what Gonchar is.

Why am I even arguing with you?
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Postby Sarcastic on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:28 pm

Whitney:
Talent 4 (out of 5)
Effort 2

Gill:
Talent 2
Effort 4
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Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:29 pm

Kovy27 wrote:
edog wrote:
cs6687 wrote:Ryan Whitney will never have to be in a position to lead this team to a Cup. Please, stop with the Whitney bashing.


he is one of the perceived leaders on this club.....


I don't see an "A" on his chest....how can he be a leader? That's what Gonchar is.

Why am I even arguing with you?


Malkin doesn't have an A on his chest, are you arguing that he hasn't been the leader of this team for the past month and a half?

To clarify i'm not weighing in on the rest of the argument, just this last comment.
Last edited by Idoit40fans on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Draftnik on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:29 pm

edog wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....


Make excuses. Games are decided by goals for and goals against, not subjective agendas.


you were the one making excuses for NT's play earlier this season & especially last season by using the "inexperience" card..... :roll:

I don't care if a young guy makes mistakes, but when he leeches off of others for his production & does nothing to improve on shortcomings, I have a huge problem with that player.....


Excuses? I'm not even going to look it up. Show me a 0 point, 10 game stretch in Whit's career. It doesn't exist.

Letang looked so bad on the PP point today that MT took him off and put Gogo on the top unit. Did you even watch the game?
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:44 pm

Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....


Make excuses. Games are decided by goals for and goals against, not subjective agendas.


you were the one making excuses for NT's play earlier this season & especially last season by using the "inexperience" card..... :roll:

I don't care if a young guy makes mistakes, but when he leeches off of others for his production & does nothing to improve on shortcomings, I have a huge problem with that player.....


Excuses? I'm not even going to look it up. Show me a 0 point, 10 game stretch in Whit's career. It doesn't exist.

Letang looked so bad on the PP point today that MT took him off and put Gogo on the top unit. Did you even watch the game?


Yes I watched the game....& you used the inexperience card with Whitney earlier this season....I'm not going to go back & look it up either but you used quite liberally when it suited your man-crush on NT....

I didn't have a problem with him putting Goligowski on the PP unit since Letang struggled, but I also don't crucify a rookie who at least gives you an honest effort each game & works on shortcomings in his game....

When MT blasted NT after the Devils game, the cowards response was he had to stick check better.....not take the guy out, not angle him into the boards & not use his size....but stick check.....any reason why I can't stand him....he's a punk here just like he was at BU.....
edog
 

Postby Kovy27 on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:44 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
Kovy27 wrote:
edog wrote:
cs6687 wrote:Ryan Whitney will never have to be in a position to lead this team to a Cup. Please, stop with the Whitney bashing.


he is one of the perceived leaders on this club.....


I don't see an "A" on his chest....how can he be a leader? That's what Gonchar is.

Why am I even arguing with you?


Malkin doesn't have an A on his chest, are you arguing that he hasn't been the leader of this team for the past month and a half?

To clarify i'm not weighing in on the rest of the argument, just this last comment.


Malkin's a superstar...he should be a leader every night...with or without the A.
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Postby Rocco on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:46 pm

Sarcastic wrote:Whitney:
Talent 4 (out of 5)
Effort 2

Gill:
Talent 2
Effort 4


What exactly are you basing the effort measurement on?
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Postby Ben Klingston on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:55 pm

Rocco wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:Whitney:
Talent 4 (out of 5)
Effort 2

Gill:
Talent 2
Effort 4


What exactly are you basing the effort measurement on?


https://secure.mvapmed.com/mvap/AMAZING/itemdesc.asp?ic=0570&eq=&Tp=

An effort sensor, of course. It's just science, man.
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Postby Rocco on Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:57 pm

Ben Klingston wrote:
Rocco wrote:
Sarcastic wrote:Whitney:
Talent 4 (out of 5)
Effort 2

Gill:
Talent 2
Effort 4


What exactly are you basing the effort measurement on?


https://secure.mvapmed.com/mvap/AMAZING/itemdesc.asp?ic=0570&eq=&Tp=

An effort sensor, of course. It's just science, man.


Science? I'm a lawyer. Do you know how few science classes I took in college?
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Postby Draftnik on Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:06 pm

edog wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....


Make excuses. Games are decided by goals for and goals against, not subjective agendas.


you were the one making excuses for NT's play earlier this season & especially last season by using the "inexperience" card..... :roll:

I don't care if a young guy makes mistakes, but when he leeches off of others for his production & does nothing to improve on shortcomings, I have a huge problem with that player.....


Excuses? I'm not even going to look it up. Show me a 0 point, 10 game stretch in Whit's career. It doesn't exist.

Letang looked so bad on the PP point today that MT took him off and put Gogo on the top unit. Did you even watch the game?


Yes I watched the game....& you used the inexperience card with Whitney earlier this season....I'm not going to go back & look it up either but you used quite liberally when it suited your man-crush on NT....

I didn't have a problem with him putting Goligowski on the PP unit since Letang struggled, but I also don't crucify a rookie who at least gives you an honest effort each game & works on shortcomings in his game....

When MT blasted NT after the Devils game, the cowards response was he had to stick check better.....not take the guy out, not angle him into the boards & not use his size....but stick check.....any reason why I can't stand him....he's a punk here just like he was at BU.....


Whit's response was 2 goals and 1 assist if I remember correctly. Gogo was even out there for the last shift of the game with Gonch when Conks was pulled. I doubt the Pens had 3 Dmen on so MT obviously thought Letang had a brutal game. He's been brutal for quite a few games actually.

Whit will never be a physical force. I have no idea why you think it is possible but it will never happen. Whit needs to generate more offense to offset his lack of physicality. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting him to be something he is not is waiting for something that will never happen. I've posted numerous clips of Whit going into the corner to get the puck. He is willing to take a hit to make a play. He isn't going to look for hits, just take them. Letang pulled up today to avoid being hit by Donevan. It was a Gonchar-esque display of cowardice regardless of how many hits he initiated today.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:27 pm

Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
edog wrote:yet he is 4 years younger than NT & is piling up game minutes....I'd say he is playing way above where he should be & underscores how useless Whitney is to this club....


Make excuses. Games are decided by goals for and goals against, not subjective agendas.


you were the one making excuses for NT's play earlier this season & especially last season by using the "inexperience" card..... :roll:

I don't care if a young guy makes mistakes, but when he leeches off of others for his production & does nothing to improve on shortcomings, I have a huge problem with that player.....


Excuses? I'm not even going to look it up. Show me a 0 point, 10 game stretch in Whit's career. It doesn't exist.

Letang looked so bad on the PP point today that MT took him off and put Gogo on the top unit. Did you even watch the game?


Yes I watched the game....& you used the inexperience card with Whitney earlier this season....I'm not going to go back & look it up either but you used quite liberally when it suited your man-crush on NT....

I didn't have a problem with him putting Goligowski on the PP unit since Letang struggled, but I also don't crucify a rookie who at least gives you an honest effort each game & works on shortcomings in his game....

When MT blasted NT after the Devils game, the cowards response was he had to stick check better.....not take the guy out, not angle him into the boards & not use his size....but stick check.....any reason why I can't stand him....he's a punk here just like he was at BU.....


Whit's response was 2 goals and 1 assist if I remember correctly. Gogo was even out there for the last shift of the game with Gonch when Conks was pulled. I doubt the Pens had 3 Dmen on so MT obviously thought Letang had a brutal game. He's been brutal for quite a few games actually.

Whit will never be a physical force. I have no idea why you think it is possible but it will never happen. Whit needs to generate more offense to offset his lack of physicality. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting him to be something he is not is waiting for something that will never happen. I've posted numerous clips of Whit going into the corner to get the puck. He is willing to take a hit to make a play. He isn't going to look for hits, just take them. Letang pulled up today to avoid being hit by Donevan. It was a Gonchar-esque display of cowardice regardless of how many hits he initiated today.


we picked him 6th overall, so to say he can't evolve suggests we wasted a pick....if you can't or won't evolve your game in this league, then why play in it....

Norris Trophy is one of the worst offenders of guys who are not willing to take a hit to make a play....especially behind our net.....& guess what, he isn't producing offensively either.....
edog
 

Postby farnham16 on Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:58 pm

So edog, looks like you have a new favorite whipping boy in Whitney.

I just hope you are as wrong about him as you were about Malkin.
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Postby DontToewsMeBro on Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:04 pm

Whatever you want to say about Whitney, he is clutch. He makes some bad mistakes, but he is who you want on the ice with a minute left, down by one. He reads the plays better than all of our defensemen, and can compliment our star offensive players rather than hamper them.
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