Whitney = melted butter

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Postby KG on Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:15 am

If Whitney was still on his rookie contract I don't think I would have as much of a problem with his game...However he is eating up $4MM of our now expanding budget....

I would definitely explore the trade market this off season to see what type of package we could get for him and use the money for more pressing needs.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:23 am

KG wrote:If Whitney was still on his rookie contract I don't think I would have as much of a problem with his game...However he is eating up $4MM of our now expanding budget....

I would definitely explore the trade market this off season to see what type of package we could get for him and use the money for more pressing needs.


The problem with that is that he isn't playing up to his contract... who's going take on that contract when they can get the same production or better for less $$
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Postby KG on Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:41 am

ExPatriatePen wrote:
KG wrote:If Whitney was still on his rookie contract I don't think I would have as much of a problem with his game...However he is eating up $4MM of our now expanding budget....

I would definitely explore the trade market this off season to see what type of package we could get for him and use the money for more pressing needs.


The problem with that is that he isn't playing up to his contract... who's going take on that contract when they can get the same production or better for less $$


I bet his value is still very high around the league. Teams don't watch him every game like we all do and exploit his weaknesses. If we put Whitney up for discussion, I bet we could net a nice return....I'm not saying that I want to trade him, but I would explore it...
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:56 am

KG wrote:
ExPatriatePen wrote:
KG wrote:If Whitney was still on his rookie contract I don't think I would have as much of a problem with his game...However he is eating up $4MM of our now expanding budget....

I would definitely explore the trade market this off season to see what type of package we could get for him and use the money for more pressing needs.


The problem with that is that he isn't playing up to his contract... who's going take on that contract when they can get the same production or better for less $$


I bet his value is still very high around the league. Teams don't watch him every game like we all do and exploit his weaknesses. If we put Whitney up for discussion, I bet we could net a nice return....I'm not saying that I want to trade him, but I would explore it...


In investment circles, that's called the "Greater Fool" theory.
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Postby pfim on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:02 am

I bet his value is still very high around the league. Teams don't watch him every game like we all do and exploit his weaknesses. If we put Whitney up for discussion, I bet we could net a nice return....I'm not saying that I want to trade him, but I would explore it...


Everyone knows about Whitney, I think it's a bit naive to think that a fan sees more than a professional scout/gm.
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Postby Lumberjack on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:06 am

Big, extremely offensively gifted, young first round pick... teams would love to take him off of our hands. If you don't think every other team in the league would want Whitney you're out of your mind.

He's never going to be physical. Stop asking him to be, you're wasting your breath. No one gets on Letang or Gonchar for not being Ulf. I know, I know "but he's so big blah blah blah." It doesn't matter. He is what he is and what he is is an extremely valuable component to this team that happens to be having a bad season.

Plus, does anyone notice that the Pens seem to have a really difficult time developing defensemen. I mean good god. It's not like we don't have talent. That minor league system needs overhauled.
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Postby Pitts on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:11 am

pfim wrote:
I bet his value is still very high around the league. Teams don't watch him every game like we all do and exploit his weaknesses. If we put Whitney up for discussion, I bet we could net a nice return....I'm not saying that I want to trade him, but I would explore it...


Everyone knows about Whitney, I think it's a bit naive to think that a fan sees more than a professional scout/gm.

I still say nearly 29 other teams in the league would have very high interest in such a high scoring defenseman.

People around here love to believe that the player(s) they hate have absolutely no value around the league.
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Postby pfim on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:16 am

Pitts wrote:
pfim wrote:
I bet his value is still very high around the league. Teams don't watch him every game like we all do and exploit his weaknesses. If we put Whitney up for discussion, I bet we could net a nice return....I'm not saying that I want to trade him, but I would explore it...


Everyone knows about Whitney, I think it's a bit naive to think that a fan sees more than a professional scout/gm.

I still say nearly 29 other teams in the league would have very high interest in such a high scoring defenseman.

People around here love to believe that the player(s) they hate have absolutely no value around the league.


He would be in demand, imo. But that doesn't mean 29 other teams are blind to his faults.
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Postby Pitts on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:23 am

pfim wrote:
Pitts wrote:
pfim wrote:
I bet his value is still very high around the league. Teams don't watch him every game like we all do and exploit his weaknesses. If we put Whitney up for discussion, I bet we could net a nice return....I'm not saying that I want to trade him, but I would explore it...


Everyone knows about Whitney, I think it's a bit naive to think that a fan sees more than a professional scout/gm.

I still say nearly 29 other teams in the league would have very high interest in such a high scoring defenseman.

People around here love to believe that the player(s) they hate have absolutely no value around the league.


He would be in demand, imo. But that doesn't mean 29 other teams are blind to his faults.

So, what you're saying is they would want to take a chance, show some patience, and let him develop more before writing him off completely?
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Postby Steve on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:29 am

I think I saw Dave Parker throwing radio batteries at Ryan Whitney from the upper deck.
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Postby King Sid the Great 87 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:31 am

As bad as the entire team was, even I wouldn't start a thread singling out Whitney.
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Postby ExPatriatePen on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:55 am

Pitts wrote:
People around here love to believe that the player(s) they hate have absolutely no value around the league.


Who said he has "NO VALUE?"

What people are missing is that if other teams think his value is less than the cost of his contract... they won't be interested.

That != NO VALUE
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Postby magnum on Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 pm

Lumberjack wrote:
He's never going to be physical. Stop asking him to be, you're wasting your breath. No one gets on Letang or Gonchar for not being Ulf.


Gonchar definitely receives his fair share. Put Letang in Gonchar's body and he would probably be the closest thing to Ulf physically as we have seen. He's a little guy but what he does is give effort and plays as physical as he can with his size, Whitney doesn't even try to show any muscle, grit or physicality.
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Postby pfim on Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:09 pm

So, what you're saying is they would want to take a chance, show some patience, and let him develop more before writing him off completely?


Yes, just as the Pens should.
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Postby shane613 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:15 pm

ryan whitney is a flowering cactoid.
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Postby meow on Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:28 pm

55 wrote:The problem is not Whitney. Whitney needs to be paired with a steady partner that is physical. The Penguins D in general is not physical and picking out Whit, who is a top 20 d-man in the entire league is unfounded. (Blast statement if you will but, if the GM's in the league compiled a list of the top 20 d-man, his name would be on it) Whit is tied for 7th in D Goals with 12, 5 behind leader. Whit is tied for 27 in the lead for d assists, and Whit is 21st in the league for d scoring, despite being the number 2 point man on the Pens power play. Whit's (-1) rating ranks 12th out of the top 21 defenseman in scoring. Whit has flaws, and if you spend the entire game searching for them they are easy to find, but you miss all the positives that he brings. Whit is a bargain at 4 million and in the next few years you will come to see that as other d-man will sign for much more. Whitney does have room to improve, but he will never be a Dion Phaneuf type player. PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THAT


The "Pair him with a physical guy" is a very weak arugment IMO. My problem with him is his total lack of heart and desire in the Dzone. He either throws a stick check or holds the oppposing forwards pocket infront of the net. With the size of his frame, he should be able to knock someone around, but I've never seen it. Pittsburgh sports fans gravitate toward the tough and rough guys, and I think Whitney's soft game is hard for some people to accept.
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Postby element1286 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:16 pm

meow wrote:
55 wrote:The problem is not Whitney. Whitney needs to be paired with a steady partner that is physical. The Penguins D in general is not physical and picking out Whit, who is a top 20 d-man in the entire league is unfounded. (Blast statement if you will but, if the GM's in the league compiled a list of the top 20 d-man, his name would be on it) Whit is tied for 7th in D Goals with 12, 5 behind leader. Whit is tied for 27 in the lead for d assists, and Whit is 21st in the league for d scoring, despite being the number 2 point man on the Pens power play. Whit's (-1) rating ranks 12th out of the top 21 defenseman in scoring. Whit has flaws, and if you spend the entire game searching for them they are easy to find, but you miss all the positives that he brings. Whit is a bargain at 4 million and in the next few years you will come to see that as other d-man will sign for much more. Whitney does have room to improve, but he will never be a Dion Phaneuf type player. PEOPLE NEED TO REALIZE THAT


The "Pair him with a physical guy" is a very weak arugment IMO. My problem with him is his total lack of heart and desire in the Dzone. He either throws a stick check or holds the oppposing forwards pocket infront of the net. With the size of his frame, he should be able to knock someone around, but I've never seen it. Pittsburgh sports fans gravitate toward the tough and rough guys, and I think Whitney's soft game is hard for some people to accept.


Just because he doesn't play physical doesn't mean he is not trying. He has never been physical it is not his job. If he was a gifted offensive and defensive d man he would be making a lot more than 4 million a year.

Everyone can agree that he needs to play better, but how often do you see guys sign big deals and have a poor year the next, a lot. He is probably trying too hard to justify his deal, it looks like he is thinking out there, and he should just be playing.
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Postby shane613 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:32 pm

ryan whitney would rather touch than love.
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Postby joopen on Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:35 pm

whitney threads =
Image
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Postby Marty Midnight on Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:32 pm

Whitney is what Malone was, a hit or miss "will he show up tonight?" player. To be fair Gonchar is keeping him out of his natural position on yhe PP, and he is young and still seasoning. If MT keeps kicking his arse I have faith he will live up to his potential eventually., and will at least not fail to 'try' in the playoffs.

It's not fair to compare him to Letang... Letang has triple the natural hockey sense that Whinney does.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:16 pm

jmcst35 wrote:
bhaw wrote:
jmcst35 wrote:Look.. Whitney definitely is an amazing offensive d-man on our team. We all know that. I just can't believe that his 1 on 1 or corner work is so bad. That's honestly hockey 101 for d-men.

You have a good enough offense.. you now need team defense. Coach needs to switch our 1 on 1 down low (d-zone) to something else. We also need team back checking if this will work in the playoffs.


If we played a 1-2-2 or a 2-3 or even a simple trap or a left/right wing lock we can give our d-men some consistency to step up earlier. The cycle is killing out nuetral zone play because all 3 guys seemed to get trapped a LOT easier.

There are a lot of ways to make up for a bad 1 on 1 d-man and coach needs to implement a structure or else we'll be ousted in the playoffs.


Weren't we playng a 1-2-2 last night vs TB? I could have sworn we were at least for a good chunk of the game. Espo even specifically pointed it out on the radio saying the TB was totally baffled on how to handle it because there were no Pens pressuring them out of their zone.

PS - For all the MT haters... he was matching lines tonight (again, at least for part of the game)


you can't play a 1-2-2 w/ a cycle... almost all of hockey is transition hockey. If u have 3 trapped then you have NO nuetral zone play at all.

It's hockey 101. In fact when I was 4 years old learning. The cycle was the first thing we were taught. Lol. Sad.

Focus on this.. we dump the puck in.. if we are playing a 1-2-2 then ONE GUY goes after... 2 play top of the circles and DONT LEAN IN and the dman stay nuetral on the blue line .

THEN if they get past our first guy.. we back up and cause them to stall and then we attack.



You can't do that w/ 2 guys chasing for a cycle. Since hockey is mostly transition... you need to play a system that counters from d-zone to nuetral zone to offensive zone.

You can't play three seperate styles. You can't play the cycle then say "Oh we're going to trap as well" It doesn't work. If you dump the puck in (like the pens do..) 1 guy chases 2 guys stay higher. If we get the puck in the corner we need to come out w/ it or keep a guy w/ D-SIDE POSITIONING in the cycle. If 2 guys get trapped then we simply have a break down in the system.

I believe the Pens play the best when they get rid of the cycle... play high in the offensive zone and play GOOD defense and create turnovers and odd man situations. That cycle almost generates NO offense. It's so stupid for laraque to skate around.. hold the puck then throw it wildly to no one. Even if he connects on a pass... he can't open up for a shot.. ORR even cover a d-man because he is to slow.

It's pointless


a 1-2-2 is a more agressive forecheck.....& you can certainly cycle on it after you gain possession of the puck.....remember, guys are at the top of the circles on a 1-2-2, not on the blue line as they would be on a 1-4, which is a more classic trap....
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:26 pm

imnosortoffabric wrote:
cs6687 wrote:He did play bad tonight. However, Letang has a worse plus/minus than Whitney, and was non-existant for most of February. However, nobody called him out. That's just a bit of a double-standard, don't you think?


letang is a rookie who looked pretty damn good tonight by the way.....whitney is in his third season in the nhl. if letang is as bad as whitney in his third year then i will complain.


The difference between Norris Trophy & Letang is that Letang doesn't leech off of others for his production.....
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Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:29 pm

edog wrote:
imnosortoffabric wrote:
cs6687 wrote:He did play bad tonight. However, Letang has a worse plus/minus than Whitney, and was non-existant for most of February. However, nobody called him out. That's just a bit of a double-standard, don't you think?


letang is a rookie who looked pretty damn good tonight by the way.....whitney is in his third season in the nhl. if letang is as bad as whitney in his third year then i will complain.


The difference between Norris Trophy & Letang is that Letang doesn't leech off of others for his production.....


If what Whitney does is leech off of others for production then Crosby must be the biggest Leech in the NHL.
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Postby edog on Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:31 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:
edog wrote:
imnosortoffabric wrote:
cs6687 wrote:He did play bad tonight. However, Letang has a worse plus/minus than Whitney, and was non-existant for most of February. However, nobody called him out. That's just a bit of a double-standard, don't you think?


letang is a rookie who looked pretty damn good tonight by the way.....whitney is in his third season in the nhl. if letang is as bad as whitney in his third year then i will complain.


The difference between Norris Trophy & Letang is that Letang doesn't leech off of others for his production.....


If what Whitney does is leech off of others for production then Crosby must be the biggest Leech in the NHL.


:roll: Crosby creates opportunities down low, Norris Trophy requires a back door pass instead of a shot from the point.....I rest my case....
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Postby Idoit40fans on Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:33 pm

How does he require that? Just because that play works with him does not mean he needs that play to score. He creates plenty of offense moving the puck.
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