Pierre saying Malkin to Kings for Kopitar, Dustin Brown

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Postby Steve on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:52 pm

Isn't there a max amount that a player can make in one season, under the new CBA?

just curious.
Steve
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,664
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:56 am
Location: Maryland

Postby ulf on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:54 pm

gosh, I just logged on and saw 19 pages of this and thought Malkin actually got traded or something. phew...

on topic, I say do everything you can to keep Malkin, then entertain offers down the road if trouble lies ahead with the cap. Like one of the posters said, Malkin makes us a 2 line team, while if we give away Malkin to afford Hossa and others, I feel like we turn into the Tampa Bay Lightning.
ulf
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,523
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:41 pm

Postby newarenanow on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:55 pm

Steve wrote:Isn't there a max amount that a player can make in one season, under the new CBA?

just curious.


20% of the cap.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,172
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:55 pm

ulf wrote:gosh, I just logged on and saw 19 pages of this and thought Malkin actually got traded or something. phew...

on topic, I say do everything you can to keep Malkin, then entertain offers down the road if trouble lies ahead with the cap. Like one of the posters said, Malkin makes us a 2 line team, while if we give away Malkin to afford Hossa and others, I feel like we turn into the Tampa Bay Lightning.


The thing about the Lightning is Brad Richards completely fell off the face of the earth and kept them a one line team with Lecavalier and St. Louis.
TheHammer24
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 14,024
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:28 pm

Postby newarenanow on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:57 pm

ulf wrote:gosh, I just logged on and saw 19 pages of this and thought Malkin actually got traded or something. phew...

on topic, I say do everything you can to keep Malkin, then entertain offers down the road if trouble lies ahead with the cap. Like one of the posters said, Malkin makes us a 2 line team, while if we give away Malkin to afford Hossa and others, I feel like we turn into the Tampa Bay Lightning.


If we keep Malkin, Hossa, and Crosby, we will be like Tampa.

You can keep Hossa and get some great players for Malkin.

Staal is a very capable, yet different 2nd line center. He would do just fine. I think we would have two very, very good lines if you get the right deal.

If you keep Malkin, (if he is asking for the max), you may have two elite centers, but no one to play wing with them. I don't see that as two good lines.
newarenanow
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 41,172
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Postby shmenguin on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:58 pm

newarenanow wrote:
Steve wrote:Isn't there a max amount that a player can make in one season, under the new CBA?

just curious.


20% of the cap.


which would be like 11 mill next year i guess.

i really hope malkin doesn't want 11 mill. life would be so nice if he just took like an 8 year, $72 mill deal
shmenguin
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,356
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:34 pm

Postby Maagwa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:04 pm

ffs guys malkin got 106 pts and lacks motivation... I believe he is the best in the nhl potential wise and if he keeps playing for the pens he will be a legend but.... I just don't see another team offering him max because of his inconsistency
Maagwa
 

Postby André on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:06 pm

Jesse wrote:This is an "out of sight - out of mind" argument. People forgot what Crosby was capable of because he was missing for a good part of the year.

Sidney Crosby is one of the most dynamic and competitive hockey players I've ever seen. His fire is so great that he can be downright embarassing sometimes with his antics.

People forget that Crosby was roughly 10-12 points ahead in the scoring race when he got injured. It took Lecavalier nearly 4-5 games to surpass him after the HAS.

Malkin nearly won the scoring title this year and he still couldn't get close to the 120 big ones that Crosby put up last year.

Crosby has a sixth sense about the game and dynamic vision that Malkin will never have. It's innate. Malkin can bury the puck and charge through defenders, but Crosby can lift a team like no one I've ever seen. When the Penguins were down and out against the Red Wings and couldn't score a goal, he elevated his game to a level that I've never seen.

Sure, Malkin had a great regular season with Sid out, but even then, he never got to the level of intensity and gamesmanship that Crosby has.

The man is a born leader. Malkin doesn't posses that quality.


Jesse: I usually agree with mostly everything you post and appreciate your contributions on this board. This, however, is a weird post in my opinion.

"When the Penguins were down and out against the Red Wings and couldn't score a goal, he elevated his game to a level that I've never seen. "

Whaaat? The 06/07 Crosby was better than this year's versions. He dominated game after game. You saw a level you've never seen? VS Detroit? I don't get what it was you saw, I really can't agree with you. Crosby had some great moments in some of the games vs Detroit, but come on he's been significantly better. That last top level of intensity and creating of scoring chances that he's spoiled us with was not seen as consistently as last year, or maybe I should say before the injuries.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,303
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Postby André on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:08 pm

Maagwa wrote:ffs guys malkin got 106 pts and lacks motivation... I believe he is the best in the nhl potential wise and if he keeps playing for the pens he will be a legend but.... I just don't see another team offering him max because of his inconsistency


After "finding himself", when was he inconsistent? Only when he was sick.
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,303
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Postby André on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:11 pm

newarenanow wrote:
ulf wrote:gosh, I just logged on and saw 19 pages of this and thought Malkin actually got traded or something. phew...

on topic, I say do everything you can to keep Malkin, then entertain offers down the road if trouble lies ahead with the cap. Like one of the posters said, Malkin makes us a 2 line team, while if we give away Malkin to afford Hossa and others, I feel like we turn into the Tampa Bay Lightning.


If we keep Malkin, Hossa, and Crosby, we will be like Tampa.

You can keep Hossa and get some great players for Malkin.

Staal is a very capable, yet different 2nd line center. He would do just fine. I think we would have two very, very good lines if you get the right deal.

If you keep Malkin, (if he is asking for the max), you may have two elite centers, but no one to play wing with them. I don't see that as two good lines.


No, never. Tampa's timing sucked. The cap was set at 39 mil right after they had signed all of their big three. The cap is now expected at 56 mil...
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,303
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Postby Maagwa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:11 pm

André wrote:
Maagwa wrote:ffs guys malkin got 106 pts and lacks motivation... I believe he is the best in the nhl potential wise and if he keeps playing for the pens he will be a legend but.... I just don't see another team offering him max because of his inconsistency


After "finding himself", when was he inconsistent? Only when he was sick.
Thats what he and his agent want people to think
Maagwa
 

Postby pfim on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:13 pm

If Malkin hits free agency, he'll get the max or close to it. Sick, inconsistent, doesn't matter.
pfim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 16,789
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:35 am
Location: Sitting in front of my computer

Postby HeyNow71871929 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:13 pm

André wrote:
Maagwa wrote:ffs guys malkin got 106 pts and lacks motivation... I believe he is the best in the nhl potential wise and if he keeps playing for the pens he will be a legend but.... I just don't see another team offering him max because of his inconsistency


After "finding himself", when was he inconsistent? Only when he was sick.


Evgeni Malkin was the most consistent Penguin all season. I don't know where this inconsistency stuff comes from either.
HeyNow71871929
 

Postby Sarcastic on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:13 pm

newarenanow wrote:Staal is a very capable, yet different 2nd line center. He would do just fine.


Staal has to prove himself, because right now he's barely a 3rd line center (offensively). A second line center has to score. Staal didn't do any scoring this season. Looks like he may turn out as a very good, defense-oriented, 3rd line center, but there is nothing, nothing, so far to show me that he is capable of carrying the #2 line.
Sarcastic
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,283
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 pm

Postby André on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:15 pm

Maagwa wrote:
André wrote:
Maagwa wrote:ffs guys malkin got 106 pts and lacks motivation... I believe he is the best in the nhl potential wise and if he keeps playing for the pens he will be a legend but.... I just don't see another team offering him max because of his inconsistency


After "finding himself", when was he inconsistent? Only when he was sick.
Thats what he and his agent want people to think


Oh come on, that's ridiculous (spelling). After game 1 vs the Flyers he went from dominant to a slower turn over machine. It was as if someone found the off button. That extreme difference doesn't tell you something?
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,303
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Postby doublem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:17 pm

Everyone keeps talking about offer sheets but players have only been offered contracts about 5 times in nhl history and last year it happened twice by a moron that was trying to save his job. Sakic, Fedorov and welsey were the others. it doesnt happen that often and no one even knows if anyone would even offer malkin a offer sheet.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Postby HeyNow71871929 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:17 pm

André wrote:
Maagwa wrote:
André wrote:
Maagwa wrote:ffs guys malkin got 106 pts and lacks motivation... I believe he is the best in the nhl potential wise and if he keeps playing for the pens he will be a legend but.... I just don't see another team offering him max because of his inconsistency


After "finding himself", when was he inconsistent? Only when he was sick.
Thats what he and his agent want people to think


Oh come on, that's ridiculous (spelling). After game 1 vs the Flyers he went from dominant to a slower turn over machine. It was as if someone found the off button. That extreme difference doesn't tell you something?


Nobody goes from scoring 17 points in the first 10 playoff games to just scoring 5 in the next ten playoff games without a nagging injury.
HeyNow71871929
 

Postby bhaw on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:18 pm

André wrote:
newarenanow wrote:
ulf wrote:gosh, I just logged on and saw 19 pages of this and thought Malkin actually got traded or something. phew...

on topic, I say do everything you can to keep Malkin, then entertain offers down the road if trouble lies ahead with the cap. Like one of the posters said, Malkin makes us a 2 line team, while if we give away Malkin to afford Hossa and others, I feel like we turn into the Tampa Bay Lightning.


If we keep Malkin, Hossa, and Crosby, we will be like Tampa.

You can keep Hossa and get some great players for Malkin.

Staal is a very capable, yet different 2nd line center. He would do just fine. I think we would have two very, very good lines if you get the right deal.

If you keep Malkin, (if he is asking for the max), you may have two elite centers, but no one to play wing with them. I don't see that as two good lines.


No, never. Tampa's timing sucked. The cap was set at 39 mil right after they had signed all of their big three. The cap is now expected at 56 mil...


Other notable differences:

Pens are a contender in a hockey city. TB declined quickly in a non-hockey market. Not a good formula for attracting a supporting cast.

The cap was much tighter and they could not afford ANYONE else of consequence.

Pens already have a lot of supporting players. TB lost many of theirs after they won the Cup.

The Pens will probably always get a bargain player for a 1-2 year contract trying to up his value on the following contract.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 26,994
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Postby Pitts on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:21 pm

Kicksave wrote:To be completely honest, if we got Kopitar AND Brown in a deal for Malkin - from a pure business standpoint I'd have to consider it. Neither are Malkin-level players but it would be a damn good package. And if it allowed us to keep Hossa, it's all the better. You'd essentially be getting Hossa, Kopitar, Brown and picks for Malkin. Hossa on Crosby's wing is damn near Malkin-level.

You would also get Malone and possibly Orpik back too.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,405
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:30 pm

doublem wrote:Everyone keeps talking about offer sheets but players have only been offered contracts about 5 times in nhl history and last year it happened twice by a moron that was trying to save his job. Sakic, Fedorov and welsey were the others. it doesnt happen that often and no one even knows if anyone would even offer malkin a offer sheet.


Yeah thats because players like Malkin don't reach RFA status. If malkin became an RFA, teams would sign an offer sheet. A player of his caliber is easily worth potentially burning bridge.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 51,485
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: No Reading, No Research, Just Strong Opinions

Postby NJ5934 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:41 pm

HeyNow71871929 wrote:Bottomline is, if it come down to Hossa or Malkin, you let Hossa walk. Malkin is much more valuable right now and will be in the future. Gino makes us a 2 line team, Hossa makes us a one line team.


HeyNow,

I know we've gone round and round on this topic, but it does not come down to Hossa or Malkin....it comes down to Malkin or Hossa.......and a whole lot more. Hossa walks for nothing. Malkin doesn't.

Keeping Malkin doesn't ensure us two effective scoring lines because it wasn't the case until Hossa was brought in. After Crosby returned from injury, 90% of his production was on the PP. Until Hossa arrived, the first line was virtually non-existent at even strength.

This whole issue comes down to whether or not you believe; (1) the Pens will be able to keep Malkin and Crosby long term (i.e. Malkin wants to play in Crosby's shadow), (2) if the Pens would be wise to devote so much salary to two players and (3) will doing so prevent them from filling other keys roles, and in doing so ultimately hurt the franchise.

Like I've said before, to me, this league is now about depth and balance. I see Malkin as a guy who will want his own team to lead. I also think it will be in the Penguins best interest to move Malkin long before he forces them to. The benefit of considering a trade now is obviously not only to maximize the return, but also to keep Hossa, who may well be a crucial piece to the Pens in coming years. I'm not sure I see the sense of bringing in a guy like Kopitar though; I think the Pens would be wiser to look for players that could be signed long term for more reasonable contracts, i.e. Johnson and O'Sullivan. LA certainly is a logical partner, with the #2 pick and young guys like Dustin Brown and Jack Johnson, but for all we know McGuire is spreading this rumor after reading these boards.

Either way, it will be an interesting summer.
NJ5934
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,843
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:33 pm
Location: Toms River, NJ

Postby André on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:44 pm

NJ5934 wrote:
HeyNow71871929 wrote:Bottomline is, if it come down to Hossa or Malkin, you let Hossa walk. Malkin is much more valuable right now and will be in the future. Gino makes us a 2 line team, Hossa makes us a one line team.


HeyNow,

I know we've gone round and round on this topic, but it does not come down to Hossa or Malkin....it comes down to Malkin or Hossa.......and a whole lot more. Hossa walks for nothing. Malkin doesn't.

Keeping Malkin doesn't ensure us two effective scoring lines because it wasn't the case until Hossa was brought in. After Crosby returned from injury, 90% of his production was on the PP. Until Hossa arrived, the first line was virtually non-existent at even strength.

This whole issue comes down to whether or not you believe; (1) the Pens will be able to keep Malkin and Crosby long term (i.e. Malkin wants to play in Crosby's shadow), (2) if the Pens would be wise to devote so much salary to two players and (3) will doing so prevent them from filling other keys roles, and in doing so ultimately hurt the franchise.

Like I've said before, to me, this league is now about depth and balance. I see Malkin as a guy who will want his own team to lead. I also think it will be in the Penguins best interest to move Malkin long before he forces them to. The benefit of considering a trade now is obviously not only to maximize the return, but also to keep Hossa, who may well be a crucial piece to the Pens in coming years. I'm not sure I see the sense of bringing in a guy like Kopitar though; I think the Pens would be wiser to look for players that could be signed long term for more reasonable contracts, i.e. Johnson and O'Sullivan. LA certainly is a logical partner, with the #2 pick and young guys like Dustin Brown and Jack Johnson, but for all we know McGuire is spreading this rumor after reading these boards.

Either way, it will be an interesting summer.


Great post. And maybe we could all try and calm down a little :)
André
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,303
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:51 am
Location: Gävle, Sweden

Postby doublem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:44 pm

Yes, Hossa gave a big boost to the first line but you can find good players for crosby to play with in FA, sure they wont be as good but def. capable wingers. Rostlon, Stillman are guys that would good next to sid and a few other out there.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Postby crzymike on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:47 pm

wow 20 pages? :shock:
crzymike
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,912
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:41 pm
Location: monroeville

Postby doublem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:48 pm

And whose to say L.A. would even make that trade giving up Kopitar, Brown, Johnson and a pick would really hurt that team and they wouldnt have a second line either. Teams just dont make blockbuster trades anymore its just easier to fill holes in FA.
doublem
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,430
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:05 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dan H and 11 guests

e-mail