Pierre saying Malkin to Kings for Kopitar, Dustin Brown

[Idoit40fans]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine. :)

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that. :lol:

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)! :D

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

[PenguinHockeyFanatic]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

That defense group needs more money put into it then the forwards do. Hossa is awesome which is why they can't afford to keep him.

[crzymike]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

That defense group needs more money put into it then the forwards do. Hossa is awesome which is why they can't afford to keep him.

I totally disagree, the way I see it they can't afford not to keep him. He's somewhat irreplaceable and undoubtly one of the best two way forwards in the game. Which is why you let another area of the team potentially suffer. In the long run in that scenario, we'll come out ahead. Scuderi is a capable defender at a minimal price, Gonch will be off the books or take a reduced price in a couple years. You make room for guys like Hossa and let the lesser guys sweat it out so to speak.

[PenguinHockeyFanatic]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

That defense group needs more money put into it then the forwards do. Hossa is awesome which is why they can't afford to keep him.

I totally disagree, the way I see it they can't afford not to keep him. He's somewhat irreplaceable and undoubtly one of the best two way forwards in the game. Which is why you let another area of the team potentially suffer. In the long run in that scenario, we'll come out ahead. Scuderi is a capable defender at a minimal price, Gonch will be off the books or take a reduced price in a couple years. You make room for guys like Hossa and let the lesser guys sweat it out so to speak.

Sure they will be fun to watch, but they wont win the Cup if they sign Hossa. And 3 years from now when you are wondering who will take his age 32 9 million a year salary for ANYTHING just so the Pens can sign new players to balance out the talent, just remember this thread.

It's a heartbreaking process, whihc is why I never allowed myself to think of him as anything more then a hired gun when they traded for him.

[crzymike]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

[crzymike]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

That defense group needs more money put into it then the forwards do. Hossa is awesome which is why they can't afford to keep him.

I totally disagree, the way I see it they can't afford not to keep him. He's somewhat irreplaceable and undoubtly one of the best two way forwards in the game. Which is why you let another area of the team potentially suffer. In the long run in that scenario, we'll come out ahead. Scuderi is a capable defender at a minimal price, Gonch will be off the books or take a reduced price in a couple years. You make room for guys like Hossa and let the lesser guys sweat it out so to speak.

Sure they will be fun to watch, but they wont win the Cup if they sign Hossa. And 3 years from now when you are wondering who will take his age 32 9 million a year salary for ANYTHING just so the Pens can sign new players to balance out the talent, just remember this thread.

It's a heartbreaking process, whihc is why I never allowed myself to think of him as anything more then a hired gun when they traded for him.

I think if they keep Hossa they have a far greater chance at winning the cup. He's not gonna get 9 million anyhow. Players like he enhance your chances. I dont see if we kept him that we wouldnt win the cup. When we win the cup next year with Hossa on Sid's flank, remember this thread.

[PenguinHockeyFanatic]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

You say "Gonch is off the books" like they wont need any defensive help to replace him. The D is not great WITH him, and you don't want them to spend anymore money to improve it? You don't win Cups by winning games 6-5, 5-4, you win them 3-2 and 2-1. And to do that you need a solid defensive core, not an over abundance of forwards.

[PenguinHockeyFanatic]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

That defense group needs more money put into it then the forwards do. Hossa is awesome which is why they can't afford to keep him.

I totally disagree, the way I see it they can't afford not to keep him. He's somewhat irreplaceable and undoubtly one of the best two way forwards in the game. Which is why you let another area of the team potentially suffer. In the long run in that scenario, we'll come out ahead. Scuderi is a capable defender at a minimal price, Gonch will be off the books or take a reduced price in a couple years. You make room for guys like Hossa and let the lesser guys sweat it out so to speak.

Sure they will be fun to watch, but they wont win the Cup if they sign Hossa. And 3 years from now when you are wondering who will take his age 32 9 million a year salary for ANYTHING just so the Pens can sign new players to balance out the talent, just remember this thread.

It's a heartbreaking process, whihc is why I never allowed myself to think of him as anything more then a hired gun when they traded for him.

I think if they keep Hossa they have a far greater chance at winning the cup. He's not gonna get 9 million anyhow. Players like he enhance your chances. I dont see if we kept him that we wouldnt win the cup. When we win the cup next year with Hossa on Sid's flank, remember this thread.

It could happen, and that's fine. But don't count on Malkin being around long after next season if they sign Hossa. And he will get at least 8 million.

[crzymike]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

You say "Gonch is off the books" like they wont need any defensive help to replace him. The D is not great WITH him, and you don't want them to spend anymore money to improve it? You don't win Cups by winning games 6-5, 5-4, you win them 3-2 and 2-1. And to do that you need a solid defensive core, not an over abundance of forwards.

Actually, how you win cups is having a good system. You dont need to be overly gifted on the blueline. Just as long as you have mobility, solid positioning and NHL speed and savy. We could have two scuderi type of players, letang and Goligoski, keep Whit and get an Eaton type in UFA.

The Pens won two cups with stanton and paek as depth defensemen. As I said, it can be done. It's more about the system and defensive scheme then it is the talent on the blueline. thats not to say you don't need skill. You need far more upfront however. Defense can be taught as long as you have a marginal NHL skillset. Players like Hossa well, they are FAR harder to come by.

[crzymike]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

That defense group needs more money put into it then the forwards do. Hossa is awesome which is why they can't afford to keep him.

I totally disagree, the way I see it they can't afford not to keep him. He's somewhat irreplaceable and undoubtly one of the best two way forwards in the game. Which is why you let another area of the team potentially suffer. In the long run in that scenario, we'll come out ahead. Scuderi is a capable defender at a minimal price, Gonch will be off the books or take a reduced price in a couple years. You make room for guys like Hossa and let the lesser guys sweat it out so to speak.

Sure they will be fun to watch, but they wont win the Cup if they sign Hossa. And 3 years from now when you are wondering who will take his age 32 9 million a year salary for ANYTHING just so the Pens can sign new players to balance out the talent, just remember this thread.

It's a heartbreaking process, whihc is why I never allowed myself to think of him as anything more then a hired gun when they traded for him.

I think if they keep Hossa they have a far greater chance at winning the cup. He's not gonna get 9 million anyhow. Players like he enhance your chances. I dont see if we kept him that we wouldnt win the cup. When we win the cup next year with Hossa on Sid's flank, remember this thread.

It could happen, and that's fine. But don't count on Malkin being around long after next season if they sign Hossa. And he will get at least 8 million.

I dont know if Hossa would get 8 million if he stays here (7.5) is my guess. If they signed the big three considering that the cap is very likely to go up, they would likely keep each of them for a good while. I dont understand why you believe it's impossible. It clearly isn't, it just means the management will have to make tough decisions on others.

[PenguinHockeyFanatic]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

You say "Gonch is off the books" like they wont need any defensive help to replace him. The D is not great WITH him, and you don't want them to spend anymore money to improve it? You don't win Cups by winning games 6-5, 5-4, you win them 3-2 and 2-1. And to do that you need a solid defensive core, not an over abundance of forwards.

Actually, how you win cups is having a good system. You dont need to be overly gifted on the blueline. Just as long as you have mobility, solid positioning and NHL speed and savy. We could have two scuderi type of players, letang and Goligoski, keep Whit and get an Eaton type in UFA.

The Pens won two cups with stanton and paek as depth defensemen. As I said, it can be done. It's more about the system and defensive scheme then it is the talent on the blueline. thats not to say you don't need skill. You need far more upfront however. Defense can be taught as long as you have a marginal NHL skillset. Players like Hossa well, they are FAR harder to come by.

I'm getting the impression that you think Hossa is pretty good, still don't think he wont settle for less than 9 million?

As for that defense, I think you are making it impossible for ANY goalie to win a Cup. How far in the playoffs has Lundqvuist got behind that very suspect defense in NY? Their system is solid, but their defense men's discipline and one on one talent is far from it and their goalie suffered for it. There is no way on God's Green Earth that Patrick Roy in his prime wins more than 1 round in the playoffs with 2 Scuderi's, Whitney, Letang, Goligoski (lol), and Eaton playing in front of him. I don't care if the refs allow them FOUR forwards on the ice and they play a 2-2-2 system.

Letang is no Rod Langway, he has great poise and a good stick but he is not going to ever be a dominating shut down defense man in the NHL. Whitney can be down right porous at times. Eaton is solid but guys that block as many shots as him are found on the DL quite often. And one Scuderi is more than enough for me, that guy is the most over rated defense man since Paul Stanton. He gets beat one on one while trying to fish the puck out of a pond more often then a teenager...... If I'm MAF, I'm requesting a trade ASAP. And who is going to throw a check!!? Pens don't make the playoffs with that defense even if they signed TWO Hossa's.

The Pens won Cups with Murphy anchoring them every step of the way. Gonchar is no Murphy, and Whitney is no Gonchar.

[Maagwa]

I disagree

[crzymike]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

You say "Gonch is off the books" like they wont need any defensive help to replace him. The D is not great WITH him, and you don't want them to spend anymore money to improve it? You don't win Cups by winning games 6-5, 5-4, you win them 3-2 and 2-1. And to do that you need a solid defensive core, not an over abundance of forwards.

Actually, how you win cups is having a good system. You dont need to be overly gifted on the blueline. Just as long as you have mobility, solid positioning and NHL speed and savy. We could have two scuderi type of players, letang and Goligoski, keep Whit and get an Eaton type in UFA.

The Pens won two cups with stanton and paek as depth defensemen. As I said, it can be done. It's more about the system and defensive scheme then it is the talent on the blueline. thats not to say you don't need skill. You need far more upfront however. Defense can be taught as long as you have a marginal NHL skillset. Players like Hossa well, they are FAR harder to come by.

I'm getting the impression that you think Hossa is pretty good, still don't think he wont settle for less than 9 million?

As for that defense, I think you are making it impossible for ANY goalie to win a Cup. How far in the playoffs has Lundqvuist got behind that very suspect defense in NY? Their system is solid, but their defense men's discipline and one on one talent is far from it and their goalie suffered for it. There is no way on God's Green Earth that Patrick Roy in his prime wins more than 1 round in the playoffs with 2 Scuderi's, Whitney, Letang, Goligoski (lol), and Eaton playing in front of him. I don't care if the refs allow them FOUR forwards on the ice and they play a 2-2-2 system.

Letang is no Rod Langway, he has great poise and a good stick but he is not going to ever be a dominating shut down defense man in the NHL. Whitney can be down right porous at times. Eaton is solid but guys that block as many shots as him are found on the DL quite often. And one Scuderi is more than enough for me, that guy is the most over rated defense man since Paul Stanton. He gets beat one on one while trying to fish the puck out of a pond more often then a teenager...... If I'm MAF, I'm requesting a trade ASAP. And who is going to throw a check!!? Pens don't make the playoffs with that defense even if they signed TWO Hossa's.

The Pens won Cups with Murphy anchoring them every step of the way. Gonchar is no Murphy, and Whitney is no Gonchar.

We can agree to disagree on this defense issue. Hossa as well because there is no way he's getting 9 million per, not here anyhow. Hossa if he signs here will be under 8 million per. I stand by my premise that a good system and solid positioning on the blueline can compensate for lack of talent. Offensively thats not the case. I agree that Gonch is no murphy but in this day and age with the systems they use more prevalently now, he doesnt have to be. I also think you undervalued scuderi as well. He's not great but he's steady and a very effective pk'er.

[bh]

I'm getting the impression that you think Hossa is pretty good, still don't think he wont settle for less than 9 million?

If Hossa signs with the Pens it will be for less than 8 million. If he wants more I can see Shero saying no thanks. IF Shero can sign Hossa without a NTC then whenever we need cap space it would be very easy to trade him for whatever we need. Every team could use a Hossa! I have a feeling though that if he takes a cut to stay in Pittsburgh he's going to want a NTC.

[joker10277]

Maybe this will calm everybody down and stop this thread from reaching 50 pages.............

Here's what Geno thinks about a new contract and all the trade stuff........

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_572532.html

[Maagwa]

Maybe this will calm everybody down and stop this thread from reaching 50 pages.............

Here's what Geno thinks about a new contract and all the trade stuff........

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_572532.html

thanks

[ru10tu10]

Geno no more than 9...Hossa for 7 or less...my prediction...

Hossa is playing with a team that can win and will take less than what people here think is market value...he does not have the capability or the desire to 'carry' a team. Sid takes on that role.

Malkin happy and sees no reason to leave...

These guys are all about winning, not about themselves...

[Idoit40fans]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine. :)

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that. :lol:

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)! :D

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

When Gonchar goes off the books, Letang gets a significant raise. Between now and then Scuderi gets a raise, and the rest of the top 4(assuming scuderi is in the top 4[doubtful]) consist of Whitney and 2 guys more expensive than Gill. aka the defense is actually more expensive than it is now. Thats with gogo getting a raise the following year, and since people are assuming he will be the third coming of JC, we can expect him to cost at a minimum 4m per year. So how exactly are they saving money?

[Noise]

As a follow up heres a great example. Colby vs Max. Both are good Pk'ers, both bring some positive energy and both are well regarded in the locker room. The difference, one is twice as expensive as the other. Personally I'd take Max even up anyhow. So basically you are getting the ''same type'' of player who can make similar contributions to the team but one at far less the price. These are the areas where by RS needs to be sharp. Signing players like Sydor for that salary is not the way to go, Sykora obviously was. If he makes good decisions along these lines we'll be fine like wine.

Better make that Mad Dog 20/20. There won't be any money left over for anything more expensive than that.

Those examples are the reason it can get done. Personally I'd rather have to sweat out if we can afford these players then say Geno or Sid. Lets not forget, though we may be a bit top heavy, our key guys will be on the ice the majority of the time. Id rather have to fill 5 or 6 minutes of ice time with inferior talent to fit in under the cap then 20 or 25 minutes a game with lesser talent. An if RS makes prudent decisions regarding depth players, we can have the best of both worlds(that's what SHE said)!

Well that's a powerful Van Hagar qoute you got there, but let
s just hope we aren't resigning Ouellet and Fata because that's the best of the affordable depth out there. Guts like Ruutu and Dupuis are not as common as you might think, you just don't plug anybody making league minimun in there and expect it to work. Not long ago the Pens tried that after the lockout and they ended up buying out the likes of Endicott. I would rather see that Hossa money spread out and the defnes eimproved upon. If they DO sign three super stars I want one of them to be a defense men like a Lidstrom, not all 3 fowards.

Hossa is easily a top 10 forward in this league and from what I saw of his playoff performance, he was as much as reason we got to the finals as anyone. No way would I want to lose him at all.

If you want a balance team like that it's fine, but I believe you win championships with elite talent and a solid system. Potentially this team has both. Dont forget the stars get the majority of the play so if we suffer on the third and fourth line so be it. That doesn't mean it's a foregone conclusion we will though.

I'm more worried about suffering on defense than on the bottom lines. in 2-3 years, the fourth line should be virtually nonexistent anyway, with the top 3 centers playing basically the entire game. They should all be playing 23-24 minutes and the overlap will largely account for special teams. Then the bottom line should never be making more than a total of 1.5 million dollars And staal's wingers should be making a total of about 2 million dollars.

Letang and Goligoski will be cheap for at least a couple years. There is 1/3 of your defense right there. Gonch is off the books in two years so where are all the big money concerns? If we got another serviceable scuderi type or two if Whit is still here we can pull it off.

When Gonchar goes off the books, Letang gets a significant raise. Between now and then Scuderi gets a raise, and the rest of the top 4(assuming scuderi is in the top 4[doubtful]) consist of Whitney and 2 guys more expensive than Gill. aka the defense is actually more expensive than it is now. Thats with gogo getting a raise the following year, and since people are assuming he will be the third coming of JC, we can expect him to cost at a minimum 4m per year. So how exactly are they saving money?

If Whitney and Letang are living up to their potential and Letang is making around 4 when Gogo needs a raise and he's looking to get 4 million, one of the 3 could be traded.

I highly doubt that Goligoski will be making 4 million though.

The chances of either Letang or Goligoski getting 4 million dollar contracts are pretty low. Not all defensemen have a great sophomore year like Whitney did and earn themselves a super big contract. I fully expect these guys to maybe hit a rut or take a step back in their development.

Also, they're not going to be putting up huge offensive numbers being behind Gonchar, Malkin, and Whitney on the point rotation on the PP.

[PenguinHockeyFanatic]

Geno no more than 9...Hossa for 7 or less...my prediction...

Hossa is playing with a team that can win and will take less than what people here think is market value...he does not have the capability or the desire to 'carry' a team. Sid takes on that role.

Malkin happy and sees no reason to leave...

These guys are all about winning, not about themselves...

Okay I can believe in Geno taking 9 million, but Hossa UNDER SEVEN!? Less than Vanek, Iginla, and Heatley? Personally, if Hossa takes less then 8/year at this point in his career, he is a fool. Sure winning is important, but so is 5+ million he would be pissing away over 5 years. Hossa didn't make the 8+ million these kids like Sid and Geno are getting already.

[brwi]

Geno no more than 9...Hossa for 7 or less...my prediction...

Hossa is playing with a team that can win and will take less than what people here think is market value...he does not have the capability or the desire to 'carry' a team. Sid takes on that role.

Malkin happy and sees no reason to leave...

These guys are all about winning, not about themselves...

Okay I can believe in Geno taking 9 million, but Hossa UNDER SEVEN!? Less than Vanek, Iginla, and Heatley? Personally, if Hossa takes less then 8/year at this point in his career, he is a fool. Sure winning is important, but so is 5+ million he would be pissing away over 5 years. Hossa didn't make the 8+ million these kids like Sid and Geno are getting already.

His last 3 years were 6,6, and 7mil, so I don't think he's pleading poverty. I also don't think he'll sign for less than 7mil a year either, though. He could have stayed a Thrashe and made reportedly 8mil/year and if people don't think that a few other teams would pay him 8(or more a year)) they are delusional. Hossa will take less than absoluet market value it appears, but taking a paycut? I don't think so

Brad

[Pens4Life]

I would love to see Kopy in our team,but not on cost of losing Geno.. Trade Malone,Whitney and Sydor for Kopitar and Brown..

[LexPenguin]

on NHL Radio today, he said the Pens were in talks with the Kings for Kopitar and Brown. Got it from the Pens board and 1250.

Well, if you throw in Jack Johnson, I'd consider it for a minute. Won't happen ... but the possibilities of Kopitar, Brown and now a first rounder supposedly makes it somewhat intriguing. That said ... I don't think there is a more bitter TV personality with regards to hockey than Pierre McGuire. His attitude towards the Pens this year, especially in the play-offs, was nothing more than awful. Always gave the opposition kudos for nicer plays, but when the Pens made them, it was awful play by the opponent, not good by Pittsburgh.

[bill from turtle creek]

Neither Goligoski nor Letang are going to make $4million/yr like Whitney. Goligoski is never going to be a stud player due to his size, and Letang is not going to put up the numbers of Whitney or Gonchar because he won't be on the first PP unit. They will both be affordable, at least thru their next contracts.

The only big salaries that the D will have in two years is Whitney's $4million. Gonchar will either be gone, or take a paycut. The D should be affordable. Hopefully guys that they have in the system now like Strait and Bortuzzo can come in and play well at low cost initially, as well.

[pens_CT]

I don't see how that helps the Pens. Malkin's the best player involved in that deal, and while Brown is signed to a nice bargain deal, Kopitar is going to be very expensive himself. I like Kopitar and Brown, but it still seems like a quantity over quality move that dilutes your talent and doesn't give you THAT much of a cap relief in the long run.

From the Pens perspective you would get a guy in Kopitar who would chip in 35 to 40 goals, and 90 to 100 points. In Brown you have another guy who could score 35 minimum and more than likely would be in the mid forties. You have increased your goal and point production for a relatively modest cap increase (You could probably signed Kopitar for around 7 mil max, and Brown is locked in at ~3.2). From the Kings point of view I don't know why they would make this trade. Malkin would be THE MAN in LA and so he would want to be paid as such, and could demand the max salary.