Gonchar +6!!

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Gonchar +6!!

Postby OldMan on Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:54 pm

One game does not a season make, for sure, but let's give credit where's it due. Great game for "Nonchalontchar"!!
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Postby saveourpens on Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:58 pm

Too bad we're going to trade him when he actually starts earning his money.
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Postby OldMan on Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:59 pm

How are we going to trade this guy? Forget for the moment whether we should.
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Postby saveourpens on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:05 pm

OldMan wrote:How are we going to trade this guy? Forget for the moment whether we should.

He is coming around. If he consistently starts to play like the $5 million man that he should be, then we can trade him. The long contract could hurt trade talks but who wouldn't want one of the premier offensive defenceman in the NHL?
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Postby Shinoix on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:07 pm

Uh Gonchar was NOT +6!!

Geez, give me a break...he was +2, but yes it was nice to see him actually show up tonight. He's gradually getting better and starting to actually TRY to create something in the offensive zone!

Kudos to him, Koltsov, LeClair, Recchi, and Malone for all starting to find their games....a bit late, but I'll take it!!
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Postby OldMan on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:09 pm

Which I guess brings us right to the question of whether we shd. The quandary is that if he is premier OD then we want him. If not, we screwed. That's why I have said many times we need to not give up on him
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He wasnt +6

Postby OldMan on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:11 pm

Sorry,and thanks for correcting me--it wd have been more accurate to say he was on the ice for all 6 goals, and none of the Caps
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Postby DelPen on Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:16 pm

The way I see it is that you need to spend a certain figure to get revenue sharing. The Pens will be paying no one but Gonchar. They have to spend money on someone so it might as well be him. Also, the cap WILL go up every year. After 2 more seasons Gonchar could be a huge bargain at "only" $5 million when the going rate for a guy with his pedigree could be $8 million. That's when you move him to get the best return.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:54 am

I wouldnt be so fast to give up gonchar, especially when bonehead CP will trade him for someone like Cory Cross. I say keep him.

At least you know he is CAPABLE of being a great player, as far as these other bums, they will never be anything special.
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Postby Scott on Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:18 pm

saveourpens wrote:Too bad we're going to trade him when he actually starts earning his money.


No way should this team trade him. Gonchar has been used poorly this season.

He is not the complete d-man this team tried to make him out to be. Gonchar needs to roam and have fun. That is his game. He is a forward that can skate backwards. Nothing more.

He needs paired right, and he needs favorable matchups when out on defense.

We have started to finally figure that out. Rob Blake he is not...definition of offensive d-man , he is. !
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Postby netwolf on Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:34 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:I wouldnt be so fast to give up gonchar, especially when bonehead CP will trade him for someone like Cory Cross. I say keep him.


A little off-topic, but the only reason Cross was part of the Tarnstrom trade was to even up the salaries. It wasn't like the Pens targeted him or anything.
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Postby Vanbiesbrouck on Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:54 pm

If nothing else, Gonchar has kept working, hasn't made excuses, may be playing through an injury, and hasn't been brought up as being a problem in the locker room, all despite being booed at many recent home games. He's started producing more and isn't making obvious defensive blunders as often.

Sure I'm disappointed compared to what I saw out of him in Washington, but dumping him now instead of giving him a shot at what can only be an improved team next year would be silly.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:54 pm

netwolf wrote:
FallenHero96 wrote:I wouldnt be so fast to give up gonchar, especially when bonehead CP will trade him for someone like Cory Cross. I say keep him.


A little off-topic, but the only reason Cross was part of the Tarnstrom trade was to even up the salaries. It wasn't like the Pens targeted him or anything.


I am aware of that, but it doesnt change my point. We haven't gotten the better end of a trade in 6 years. Trading Gonchar will be another salary dump, and we will get 1 or 2 no name players that will never amount to anything and you guys will all be raving thank god we got rid of Gonchar.

While he is busy having his most productive season ever next year.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:08 pm

FallenHero96 wrote:I am aware of that, but it doesnt change my point. We haven't gotten the better end of a trade in 6 years. Trading Gonchar will be another salary dump, and we will get 1 or 2 no name players that will never amount to anything and you guys will all be raving thank god we got rid of Gonchar.

While he is busy having his most productive season ever next year.


Well, part of that 6 years was the Pens' self-imposed, self-described "survival mode" which basically translates to "fire sale." I get your point though; even if you are making finanically drive trades all the time, it would still be nice to grab some useful players here and there, if not actually winning a trade once in a while.

And for the record, I am not in the Trade Gonchar camp. Earlier, that was because it just wasn't possible. Over the past month, his play has drastically improved and I have been one of the few people defending him around her.
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Postby Goalie on Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:19 pm

The Penguins lack of depth at forward has led a lot of teams to use their number one line against the Crosby line in order to control the puck and play defense on Crosby by basically keeping the puck away from him.

Considering that the defensive pairing with the Crosby line is usually Gonchar and Orpik it places Gonchar in a situation you really do not want him in playing defense against the teams top line.

I would like to see more of Whitney paired with Orpik playing with the Crosby line and against the other teams top line and have Gonchar paired with Scuderi which still gives Gonchar the stay at home partner he needs and now his defensive responsibilities are lessened a little bit.

The problem with this is that until the other night Whitney had been playing average at best and was not giving the Penguins staff any reason to increase his playing time even with Gonchar giving them all kinds of reasons to reduce his.

I would still use Gonchar on the first PP, he has been playing a lot better there as of late and he showed that last night. I think Whitney can do the same things as Gonchar but until he gets the confidence back to unleash his shot like he was when he first came up he does not need to be on the point with the first PP.
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Postby netwolf on Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:13 pm

Goalie wrote:I would like to see more of Whitney paired with Orpik playing with the Crosby line and against the other teams top line and have Gonchar paired with Scuderi which still gives Gonchar the stay at home partner he needs and now his defensive responsibilities are lessened a little bit.


You may be onto something there. Whitney obviously has offensive skills, but Orpik is underrated in that regard. Now, that's not to say he's an offensive defenseman by any means, but I have seen him create offense on more than one occaision this year, mostly with his skating. More often than not, Corsby has been involved. Look at Orpik's goal from the home opener for one example. There was another one (I think against Philly) where Orpik dumped in a puck so everyone could change, then he chased it down and hit a fresh Crosby for a goal.

I think it's something the definitely merits a look...
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defense shooting more...

Postby penny lane on Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:59 pm

one & only one good point did Bob Errey make during last night's game;
Tink :wink: Whitney should shoot more. Especially on the PP.
I too think Brooks Orpik can contribute with points; he really has been skating smoothly.

If the defense is moving and holding onto the puck other team will not score. How's that for stating the very obvious? duh. Just basking in the
2 game win streak with no chance of losing on the horizen.

As for S Gonchar, Mother Russia will need his stellar play.
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PP

Postby FuturePens on Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:12 pm

All these powerplays we had, no wonder he was able to be a plus 2, not plus 6. He had over 10 shots and spend half of his time on the PP. 10.13 minutes. That's not fair, I want to see Ryan spend some time at the Center on the PP for 10 minutes and he will be just as productive, no doubt.
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Re: PP

Postby FallenHero96 on Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:37 pm

FuturePens wrote:All these powerplays we had, no wonder he was able to be a plus 2, not plus 6. He had over 10 shots and spend half of his time on the PP. 10.13 minutes. That's not fair, I want to see Ryan spend some time at the Center on the PP for 10 minutes and he will be just as productive, no doubt.


No doubt? Plenty of room for doubt there.
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Re: PP

Postby netwolf on Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:37 pm

FuturePens wrote:I want to see Ryan spend some time at the Center on the PP for 10 minutes and he will be just as productive, no doubt.


Depends on which Ryan Whitney you are talking about. If you are talking about the one that we saw over the past two games, then maybe you're right, though I'd still say it was far from certain.

If you get the Ryan Whitney that suited up for the 1-2 months prior, then that's laughable. Whitney was fanning on half his one timers. Then 75% of the ones he actually did get off went wide or were getting blocked. He was doing nothing that warranted him getting time on the second unit, let along top unit minutes.
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nope

Postby FuturePens on Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:01 pm

Whitney was fanning on the shots because he never had to play such a crutial role at the big level. For his lack of experience he's not missing many more than Gonchar. Lately Gonchar has increased his production and played better, but he still missed the net a ton. He can do much better, plus he has more bad days than good days. Not very consistent.

Next year, if Malkin comes, Gonchar is going to stay also. Them two played together in the Russian laegue. Malkin, Gonchar on the PP, will be a great 2nd PP line, Crosby and Whitney should be on the top PP line. That's why I hope that Whitney gets just as much time, so he can get used to Crosby's unexpected passes.
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Postby Draftnik on Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:30 pm

If the Pens can dump Gonchar now they should. There is no way a 1 dimensional dman should be getting 5 mil per season. His contract will be a bigger albatross when he is pulling down that $$$ at 36. A few weeks of production does not trump months of ineffectiveness. A comparable 1 way guy like Ozolinsh only pulls down $2.5 to $2.75 per season on a 2 year deal.

In the new NHL Cap space is as valuable or more valuable than players. When the Pens are ready to contend for a playoff berth in a few seasons they can reinvest that $$ in a more productive, less aged asset.
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Re: nope

Postby netwolf on Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:04 pm

FuturePens wrote:Whitney was fanning on the shots because he never had to play such a crutial role at the big level. For his lack of experience he's not missing many more than Gonchar. Lately Gonchar has increased his production and played better, but he still missed the net a ton. He can do much better, plus he has more bad days than good days. Not very consistent.


You said earlier that Whitney should play more minutes on the top PP, but then excuse his fanned shots because he's not used to playing a critical role. Those two ideas would seem to contradict each other.

Until the last two games, Whitney had been abysmal for a long time. That doesn't mean I think he's doomed to be a never-was; in fact I think he's still got a very bright future ahead of him. He was pretty bad for a long stretch though.
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Postby FallenHero96 on Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:45 am

I gotta agree about Whitney's upside. Maybe he had a little tough time to adjust, but I gotta think he will be a better than average defenseman for years to come. It took Orpik a little while to come into his own, also.
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