USA Today's Kevin Allen ranks Pens 3rd in preseason rankings

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USA Today's Kevin Allen ranks Pens 3rd in preseason rankings

Postby cs6687 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:05 am

Allen's top five: Detroit, Montreal, Penguins, San Jose, Dallas

http://www.usatoday.com/community/profi ... pAscending
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Postby DelPen on Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:00 am

Montreal benefited from being in an aweful division last year. Thye aren't as good as their record indicated. Dallas is also ebtter than they were at the end of last season. I'd rate my top 5 as:

1. Detroit
2. Pittsburgh
3. Dallas
4. San Jose
5. Montreal
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Postby DrBoni on Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:15 am

The Kevin Allen jinx.

Take that, Detroit!
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Postby André on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:43 am

I think I agree with that top five.

Somehow I like Calgary too though. I always call them contenders but this year perhaps they'll be that for real =)
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Postby Three Stars on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:57 am

What an idiot! How dare he rank the Penguins so low! He doesn't know anythi---

Oh, wait. Sorry. Force of habit.
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Postby Troy Loney on Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:35 am

DelPen wrote:Montreal benefited from being in an aweful division last year. Thye aren't as good as their record indicated. Dallas is also ebtter than they were at the end of last season. I'd rate my top 5 as:

1. Detroit
2. Pittsburgh
3. Dallas
4. San Jose
5. Montreal



I'd put Philly above montreal.....and why on earth is that link so long?
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Postby penny lane on Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:47 am

Thank-you Kevin Allen for giving hockey fans something meaningful to discuss today. :)

"trained chimpanzee on their wing" don't know that I would like this tag skating with Evgeni or Sidney, but we've seen people collect the points and elevate their games quickly.
Personally I'll miss Ryan Malone more than Hossa. We'll see how wrong or right during the season.

Carey Price has miles to go for the canadians. Plus, you never know which Kovalev will show up for you.

San Jose; don't get why people continue year after year after year to pick them.

If Hossa reads this colunmn he'll know he picked the right team. :P
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Postby maudineormsby on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:23 am

I agree that Malone is in may ways a bigger presence to replace than Hossa - think many people forget how good this team was before Hossa, especially since Fleury, Crosby, and Hossa all got healthy around the same time. Malone added a lot of size that will be missed, especially on the PP. I think that Fedotenko can pick up some of the slack, but Malone has 30 pounds on Fedotenko, easy. I'd like to see Cooke pick up some of the slack too (has everyone forgotten him?) because he plays way bigger than he is at 5'11" and 205 lbs.

Still, we don't have "the big guy" on the team anymore. We do have "the scoring guy(s)", so I think Hossa's role can be replaced by Fedotenko and Satan, and hopefully Pesonen, although I'm skeptical he'll even make the Pens this year.

So I'm not sure I put the Pens at 2nd or 3rd; Montreal might be better on paper, and at this point (preseason) that is what we can meaningfully talk about.

No question Detroit stays #1. They're just...wow. Win the cup, lock everyone up, and add the top scoring winger in the game. Geez.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to reinforce my point on Cooke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupS-R5r ... re=related

The Defense Rests.
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Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:53 am

I thought OV + Theadore = Cup.....at least that's what the talk is here amongst Caps fans...
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Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:55 am

maudineormsby wrote:I agree that Malone is in may ways a bigger presence to replace than Hossa - think many people forget how good this team was before Hossa, especially since Fleury, Crosby, and Hossa all got healthy around the same time. Malone added a lot of size that will be missed, especially on the PP. I think that Fedotenko can pick up some of the slack, but Malone has 30 pounds on Fedotenko, easy. I'd like to see Cooke pick up some of the slack too (has everyone forgotten him?) because he plays way bigger than he is at 5'11" and 205 lbs.

Still, we don't have "the big guy" on the team anymore. We do have "the scoring guy(s)", so I think Hossa's role can be replaced by Fedotenko and Satan, and hopefully Pesonen, although I'm skeptical he'll even make the Pens this year.

So I'm not sure I put the Pens at 2nd or 3rd; Montreal might be better on paper, and at this point (preseason) that is what we can meaningfully talk about.

No question Detroit stays #1. They're just...wow. Win the cup, lock everyone up, and add the top scoring winger in the game. Geez.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to reinforce my point on Cooke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupS-R5r ... re=related

The Defense Rests.


I think Cooke is 2x the player that Ruutu is.....but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EyJDXnZrYU

I think this trumps a spin-o-rama during practice
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Postby beerman on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:58 am

But I thought we were gonna struggle to make the playoffs this year, especially after that devastating Ryan Whitney knee injury :roll:
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Postby Defence21 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:15 am

PensFanInDC wrote:
maudineormsby wrote:I agree that Malone is in may ways a bigger presence to replace than Hossa - think many people forget how good this team was before Hossa, especially since Fleury, Crosby, and Hossa all got healthy around the same time. Malone added a lot of size that will be missed, especially on the PP. I think that Fedotenko can pick up some of the slack, but Malone has 30 pounds on Fedotenko, easy. I'd like to see Cooke pick up some of the slack too (has everyone forgotten him?) because he plays way bigger than he is at 5'11" and 205 lbs.

Still, we don't have "the big guy" on the team anymore. We do have "the scoring guy(s)", so I think Hossa's role can be replaced by Fedotenko and Satan, and hopefully Pesonen, although I'm skeptical he'll even make the Pens this year.

So I'm not sure I put the Pens at 2nd or 3rd; Montreal might be better on paper, and at this point (preseason) that is what we can meaningfully talk about.

No question Detroit stays #1. They're just...wow. Win the cup, lock everyone up, and add the top scoring winger in the game. Geez.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to reinforce my point on Cooke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupS-R5r ... re=related

The Defense Rests.


I think Cooke is 2x the player that Ruutu is.....but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EyJDXnZrYU

I think this trumps a spin-o-rama during practice

I honestly wonder if Cooke might be in the competition for top-two line winger? He has some skill, plays a ballsy game, and is defensively responsible. He would seem to be a better fit than Pascal Dupuis, who is more of an energy/defensive presence more suited to the third line. Now, I don't necessarily expect Cooke to fill a first line winger role, but if Dupuis was given such an opportunity, one would think Cooke may also have a similar opportunity.

I really think that in a few weeks, we might very well see a few surprises -- Caputi? Cooke? Pesonen?

There are a lot of open spots for players to earn...it could get exciting.
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Postby bhaw on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:17 am

PensFanInDC wrote:I thought OV + Theadore = Cup.....at least that's what the talk is here amongst Caps fans...


I think that's cancelled out by the fact that Caps will never = Cup.
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Postby ShaPe on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:19 am

Defence21 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
maudineormsby wrote:I agree that Malone is in may ways a bigger presence to replace than Hossa - think many people forget how good this team was before Hossa, especially since Fleury, Crosby, and Hossa all got healthy around the same time. Malone added a lot of size that will be missed, especially on the PP. I think that Fedotenko can pick up some of the slack, but Malone has 30 pounds on Fedotenko, easy. I'd like to see Cooke pick up some of the slack too (has everyone forgotten him?) because he plays way bigger than he is at 5'11" and 205 lbs.

Still, we don't have "the big guy" on the team anymore. We do have "the scoring guy(s)", so I think Hossa's role can be replaced by Fedotenko and Satan, and hopefully Pesonen, although I'm skeptical he'll even make the Pens this year.

So I'm not sure I put the Pens at 2nd or 3rd; Montreal might be better on paper, and at this point (preseason) that is what we can meaningfully talk about.

No question Detroit stays #1. They're just...wow. Win the cup, lock everyone up, and add the top scoring winger in the game. Geez.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to reinforce my point on Cooke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupS-R5r ... re=related

The Defense Rests.


I think Cooke is 2x the player that Ruutu is.....but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EyJDXnZrYU

I think this trumps a spin-o-rama during practice

I honestly wonder if Cooke might be in the competition for top-two line winger? He has some skill, plays a ballsy game, and is defensively responsible. He would seem to be a better fit than Pascal Dupuis, who is more of an energy/defensive presence more suited to the third line. Now, I don't necessarily expect Cooke to fill a first line winger role, but if Dupuis was given such an opportunity, one would think Cooke may also have a similar opportunity.

I really think that in a few weeks, we might very well see a few surprises -- Caputi? Cooke? Pesonen?

There are a lot of open spots for players to earn...it could get exciting.


Cook will play from 1st line to 4th line. Thats just how Therrien works :D This is no Therrien bash or anything, but Cook will be given a chance some point during the season when someone else on the top 2 lines struggle.
The question is, when Cook plays on the top line, will he look good in such a role?
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Postby bhaw on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:23 am

Defence21 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
maudineormsby wrote:I agree that Malone is in may ways a bigger presence to replace than Hossa - think many people forget how good this team was before Hossa, especially since Fleury, Crosby, and Hossa all got healthy around the same time. Malone added a lot of size that will be missed, especially on the PP. I think that Fedotenko can pick up some of the slack, but Malone has 30 pounds on Fedotenko, easy. I'd like to see Cooke pick up some of the slack too (has everyone forgotten him?) because he plays way bigger than he is at 5'11" and 205 lbs.

Still, we don't have "the big guy" on the team anymore. We do have "the scoring guy(s)", so I think Hossa's role can be replaced by Fedotenko and Satan, and hopefully Pesonen, although I'm skeptical he'll even make the Pens this year.

So I'm not sure I put the Pens at 2nd or 3rd; Montreal might be better on paper, and at this point (preseason) that is what we can meaningfully talk about.

No question Detroit stays #1. They're just...wow. Win the cup, lock everyone up, and add the top scoring winger in the game. Geez.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to reinforce my point on Cooke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupS-R5r ... re=related

The Defense Rests.


I think Cooke is 2x the player that Ruutu is.....but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EyJDXnZrYU

I think this trumps a spin-o-rama during practice

I honestly wonder if Cooke might be in the competition for top-two line winger? He has some skill, plays a ballsy game, and is defensively responsible. He would seem to be a better fit than Pascal Dupuis, who is more of an energy/defensive presence more suited to the third line. Now, I don't necessarily expect Cooke to fill a first line winger role, but if Dupuis was given such an opportunity, one would think Cooke may also have a similar opportunity.

I really think that in a few weeks, we might very well see a few surprises -- Caputi? Cooke? Pesonen?

There are a lot of open spots for players to earn...it could get exciting.


I see what you are saying with Cooke, but he is supposed to be an agitator. If he plays top 6, he can't fill that role (agitator) too well because he would be in the box too much. Obviously if he's the best option as far as being able to score goes, he should be there. But 18+ min per game for someone like him can lead to a lot of PKs unless he calms down (which would make him not very Cooke like).

The good thing about MT is that only 2 guys have their spots penciled into the linup... Sid and Malkin. It allows for the earning of positions as you mentioned, so we could easily see some surprises.
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Postby Defence21 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:27 am

ShaPe wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
PensFanInDC wrote:
maudineormsby wrote:I agree that Malone is in may ways a bigger presence to replace than Hossa - think many people forget how good this team was before Hossa, especially since Fleury, Crosby, and Hossa all got healthy around the same time. Malone added a lot of size that will be missed, especially on the PP. I think that Fedotenko can pick up some of the slack, but Malone has 30 pounds on Fedotenko, easy. I'd like to see Cooke pick up some of the slack too (has everyone forgotten him?) because he plays way bigger than he is at 5'11" and 205 lbs.

Still, we don't have "the big guy" on the team anymore. We do have "the scoring guy(s)", so I think Hossa's role can be replaced by Fedotenko and Satan, and hopefully Pesonen, although I'm skeptical he'll even make the Pens this year.

So I'm not sure I put the Pens at 2nd or 3rd; Montreal might be better on paper, and at this point (preseason) that is what we can meaningfully talk about.

No question Detroit stays #1. They're just...wow. Win the cup, lock everyone up, and add the top scoring winger in the game. Geez.

----------------------------------------------------------------

And to reinforce my point on Cooke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EupS-R5r ... re=related

The Defense Rests.


I think Cooke is 2x the player that Ruutu is.....but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EyJDXnZrYU

I think this trumps a spin-o-rama during practice

I honestly wonder if Cooke might be in the competition for top-two line winger? He has some skill, plays a ballsy game, and is defensively responsible. He would seem to be a better fit than Pascal Dupuis, who is more of an energy/defensive presence more suited to the third line. Now, I don't necessarily expect Cooke to fill a first line winger role, but if Dupuis was given such an opportunity, one would think Cooke may also have a similar opportunity.

I really think that in a few weeks, we might very well see a few surprises -- Caputi? Cooke? Pesonen?

There are a lot of open spots for players to earn...it could get exciting.


Cook will play from 1st line to 4th line. Thats just how Therrien works :D This is no Therrien bash or anything, but Cook will be given a chance some point during the season when someone else on the top 2 lines struggle.
The question is, when Cook plays on the top line, will he look good in such a role?

I Guess that's kind of what I was getting at -- we may actually see Cooke earn a spot on the top lines, since everything is open right now. I mean, really, four forwards are locked in: Crosby and Satan on the top line, with Malkin and Sykora on the "second" line. The other eight roster (plus one bench) spots will be competed for amongst Staal, Fedotenko, Pesonen, Dupuis, Kenedy, Talbot, Cooke, Godard, Caputi, Taffe, Beech, Thomas, Stone, etc, etc.
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Postby farnham16 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:32 am

Pretty good list except the Habs.

They are one of the most overrated hockey teams in the NHL and are not a good playoff team. As last playoffs proved.
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Postby Troy Loney on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 am

farnham16 wrote:Pretty good list except the Habs.

They are one of the most overrated hockey teams in the NHL and are not a good playoff team. As last playoffs proved.


Well they did bring in a great playoff warrior in Alex Tanguay :roll:
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Postby Henry Hank on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:38 am

I don't buy Montreal as being better than the Pens. They lost Streit and added Tanguay. From a production standpoint that's probably a wash. Maybe Streit is addition by subtraction on D. You can make the argument that they're a young team that will be better with their experience, and I wouldn't disagree with that... but why does the media never make that argument for the Pens? It's always that they lost Hossa and Malone - who somehow became key components to the team making the playoffs - and how can they possibly be as good as they were? Nobody ever makes the point that Crosby is 21, Malkin is 22, Staal still isn't 20, Fleury is 23, Letang is 21, etc. and that these guys will be getting better and better too. We haven't seen the best of any of them yet. THAT is the scary part about this team... as good as they looked this spring, the realty is that the key players in the team still haven't even hit their prime.
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Postby André on Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:23 am

bhaw wrote:The good thing about MT is that only 2 guys have their spots penciled into the linup... Sid and Malkin. It allows for the earning of positions as you mentioned, so we could easily see some surprises.


And even that is not exactly true since Shero said there could be times when Malkin plays on Sid's wing. With the current forward situation I don't want that but I'm sure it'll happen from time to time.
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Postby Kraftster on Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:37 am

Henry Hank wrote:I don't buy Montreal as being better than the Pens. They lost Streit and added Tanguay. From a production standpoint that's probably a wash. Maybe Streit is addition by subtraction on D. You can make the argument that they're a young team that will be better with their experience, and I wouldn't disagree with that... but why does the media never make that argument for the Pens? It's always that they lost Hossa and Malone - who somehow became key components to the team making the playoffs - and how can they possibly be as good as they were? Nobody ever makes the point that Crosby is 21, Malkin is 22, Staal still isn't 20, Fleury is 23, Letang is 21, etc. and that these guys will be getting better and better too. We haven't seen the best of any of them yet. THAT is the scary part about this team... as good as they looked this spring, the realty is that the key players in the team still haven't even hit their prime.


Yeah, this is right on.
Montreal is a very good team in a weaker division. If someone is projecting finishes in the East, I would even say Montreal is probably the safest bet to be #1, but, if you are ranking teams, the Pens and Flyers both have the edge. Montreal is going to need Higgins to get off the plateau that he's stuck on, Sergei Kostitsyn to develop like they expect and Andrei to not have what would basically be a sophomore slump. The team still also lacks a real #1 center -- both Koivu and Plekanec are solid #2 guys. And, I don't really care what pre-NHL accomplishments Carey Price had, he has no edge over MAF. Somehow he was #29 on Scott Cullen's "highest trade value" list. This list took into account contracts, and, somehow, even with his new deal, Fleury was not on that list.
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Postby cojac on Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:05 pm

My top 10
1. Detroit
2. Pittsburgh
3. Dallas
4. San Jose
5. Vancouver

Wild Cards
Washington
Boston
Edmonton
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Postby PensFanInDC on Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:09 pm

cojac wrote:My top 10
1. Detroit
2. Pittsburgh
3. Dallas
4. San Jose
5. Vancouver

Wild Cards
Washington
Boston
Edmonton


Top 10? lol

We know what you meant...
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Postby bhaw on Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:32 pm

cojac wrote:My top 10
1. Detroit
2. Pittsburgh
3. Dallas
4. San Jose
5. Vancouver

Wild Cards
Washington
Boston
Edmonton


Vancouver? :shock: Will Luongo be scoring for them as well. :lol:

I would put Montreal at 5 or possibly Philly.
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Postby cojac on Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:53 pm

PensFanInDC wrote:
cojac wrote:My top 10
1. Detroit
2. Pittsburgh
3. Dallas
4. San Jose
5. Vancouver

Wild Cards
Washington
Boston
Edmonton


Top 10? lol



We know what you meant...

Hey, I'm still learning :oops: but I forgot to change the header.
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