NHL Live Rumor...

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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:43 am

This team has some problems. Kovalchuk would be nice but we have NO grit on the top two lines. Somebody reincarnate Rick Tocchet circa 1992 for Sid's line.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby netwolf on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:49 am

Bob McKenzie wrote:This team has some problems. Kovalchuk would be nice but we have NO grit on the top two lines. Somebody reincarnate Rick Tocchet circa 1992 for Sid's line.


There aren't players like that anymore. Maybe Brendan Morrow is the closest. Milan Lucic might develop into that.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby dave1328 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:54 am

Luca Caputi eventually may be that gritty top six winger....but thats a ways away
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby farnham16 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:02 pm

Do whatever it takes to bring in Kovalchuk at this point.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:14 pm

I honestly think that Staal will be traded by the deadline. It will be tough to match an offer sheet he is going to receive for a big, young center who is a shut down defender and has the pedigree to develop into a great two way player. With that being said, he had a great rookie campaign, but since then he has been lacking. He has had AMPLE opportunity to show that he deserves to be a top 6 forward, but has not produced. Losing Staal will hurt defensively but I feel that in two years or so Caputi will be just as good as Staal. So ship him off. Also, throw in Satan for the deal. Bring Pesonen up. He played well in the preseason with the big boys so give him a shot. Can't be any worse than Satan. Throw him into the deal. Pens are loaded with young, offensively minded defensemen. I would rather part with Goligoski than Letang because Tanger is a righty and a shootout specialist which is helpful and is showing great strides defensively (he played great last night against the Coyotes IMO). I have doubts about Goligoski on D, but we shall see. The only thing I don't like about the deal is giving up ANOTHER first round pick. Two straight years without a 1st rounder doesn't sound good to me. But Staal Satan and Goligoski for Ilya looks pretty good to me, but what do I know?

PS Kris Letang is the Truth.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Soon5one4 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:48 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:I honestly think that Staal will be traded by the deadline. It will be tough to match an offer sheet he is going to receive for a big, young center who is a shut down defender and has the pedigree to develop into a great two way player. With that being said, he had a great rookie campaign, but since then he has been lacking. He has had AMPLE opportunity to show that he deserves to be a top 6 forward, but has not produced. Losing Staal will hurt defensively but I feel that in two years or so Caputi will be just as good as Staal. So ship him off. Also, throw in Satan for the deal. Bring Pesonen up. He played well in the preseason with the big boys so give him a shot. Can't be any worse than Satan. Throw him into the deal. Pens are loaded with young, offensively minded defensemen. I would rather part with Goligoski than Letang because Tanger is a righty and a shootout specialist which is helpful and is showing great strides defensively (he played great last night against the Coyotes IMO). I have doubts about Goligoski on D, but we shall see. The only thing I don't like about the deal is giving up ANOTHER first round pick. Two straight years without a 1st rounder doesn't sound good to me. But Staal Satan and Goligoski for Ilya looks pretty good to me, but what do I know?

PS Kris Letang is the Truth.


While I'm in the camp that you either need to decide where Staal fits on this team, or look to use him to get what you need more. However , while I can't wait for the Luca Caputi era to begin, he will not be as good as Stall and he's a completely different type of player. Hopefully the type that this team needs right now. A big guy with a scoring touch that isn't afraid to get dirty, but he's not the playmaker nor the complete player Staal is and will become. Also, "can't be any worse than Satan."? Are you watching the same games? Satan isn't Hossa or Kovalchuk and isn't going to put up the same numbers, but he finds the soft spots and is patient with the puck, exactly what we were expecting when we signed him. Oh, and he's leading a team lacking a scoring touch right now in goals and PPP. Pesonen isn't replacing Satan anytime soon.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:13 pm

I understand Satan is leading the team in goal scoring, but 4 of his 5 goals are on the powerplay and he could not find the net while he was on Sid's line. His goal production on the PP is like Ryan Malone last year and look how he is doing so far this year. I just haven't been impressed with Satan even strength and he just seems like a weird dude too

PS Kris Letang is the Truth
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Nizzy on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:25 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:This team has some problems. Kovalchuk would be nice but we have NO grit on the top two lines. Somebody reincarnate Rick Tocchet circa 1992 for Sid's line.


Your Rick Tocchet got traded a year ago. Daniel Carcillo. For Laraque the biggest jobber ever.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Eismann on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:27 pm

Nizzy wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:This team has some problems. Kovalchuk would be nice but we have NO grit on the top two lines. Somebody reincarnate Rick Tocchet circa 1992 for Sid's line.


Your Rick Tocchet got traded a year ago. Daniel Carcillo. For Laraque the biggest jobber ever.


Carcillo == Tocchet?


lolwut?
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Three Stars on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:36 pm

Whatever happened to all those "Staal will outscore Malkin" people?

Ah, nostalgia.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby matto514 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:44 pm

I'm also in the camp that can't wait for Caputi. The potential is obviously there. On the other hand, Caputi gives you some perspective into just how far along Staal is in his development. Caputi is also 20 yrs old, and from all accounts not yet close to ready for the big time. Staal suffers from the fact that we are exposed to his growing pains on a daily basis, whereas guys like Caputi can toil and improve in a kind of anonymity in WBS.

That's not to say that I agree with the fact that these growing pains will eventually produce "Jordan Staal the dominant offensive force."

If management believes that the Stanley Cup window won't be open as long as we'd all like, then of course you have to deal either a young center, pucking moving D, or both...whether that be Staal, Goligoski, Letang, or one of the prospects (Veilleux, Moon, Sneep, etc.), as those are the organizational depth positions.

All that said, I don't know that Kovalchuk is the answer, as he plays like Ovechkin in that he likes to play with the puck, and shoot a ton. While I like the latter part of that equation, do you really want to take the puck out of the hands of Sid and Geno at all?
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Sarcastic on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:48 pm

Soon5one4 wrote:While I'm in the camp that you either need to decide where Staal fits on this team, or look to use him to get what you need more. However , while I can't wait for the Luca Caputi era to begin, he will not be as good as Stall and he's a completely different type of player. Hopefully the type that this team needs right now. A big guy with a scoring touch that isn't afraid to get dirty, but he's not the playmaker nor the complete player Staal is and will become.


I'm totally confused by that. We're talking Jordan Staal, right? The guy has zero offense. None. Especially in the playmaking department. He may also have the slowest shot release in the entire league. He's not a hitter, which is surprising considering how big he is (I guess that's his "nice guy" personality - might be good for his girlfriend, but not for our hockey team). Only thing he has going for him is that he seems to be pretty good defensively, but some people question even that.

I'm not going to speculate how he's going to look when he's 27, but right now he's playing like a mid 3rd round pick - exactly as he did last season. And he's being quickly eclipsed by other players his age. Even Milan Lucic, was who picked #50 in the same draft. That guy already has 8 points in 11 games AND provides some of the biggest hits in the game. And fights. We are talking about the #2 overall pick here. So far, he's been a complete bust. He's a glorified penalty killer.

Good news is that he wants to get paid. I don't know for what exactly, but he does. Crosby and Malkin are our big centers, which means our #3 and #4 will have to be less. That means Staal has to be traded.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:57 pm

Sarcastic wrote:
Soon5one4 wrote:While I'm in the camp that you either need to decide where Staal fits on this team, or look to use him to get what you need more. However , while I can't wait for the Luca Caputi era to begin, he will not be as good as Stall and he's a completely different type of player. Hopefully the type that this team needs right now. A big guy with a scoring touch that isn't afraid to get dirty, but he's not the playmaker nor the complete player Staal is and will become.


I'm totally confused by that. We're talking Jordan Staal, right? The guy has zero offense. None. Especially in the playmaking department. He may also have the slowest shot release in the entire league. He's not a hitter, which is surprising considering how big he is (I guess that's his "nice guy" personality - might be good for his girlfriend, but not for our hockey team). Only thing he has going for him is that he seems to be pretty good defensively, but some people question even that.

I'm not going to speculate how he's going to look when he's 27, but right now he's playing like a mid 3rd round pick - exactly as he did last season. And he's being quickly eclipsed by other players his age. Even Milan Lucic, was who picked #50 in the same draft. That guy already has 8 points in 11 games AND provides some of the biggest hits in the game. And fights. We are talking about the #2 overall pick here. So far, he's been a complete bust. He's a glorified penalty killer.

Good news is that he wants to get paid. I don't know for what exactly, but he does. Crosby and Malkin are our big centers, which means our #3 and #4 will have to be less. That means Staal has to be traded.


beautiful. pure beauty.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby netwolf on Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:15 pm

Nizzy wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:This team has some problems. Kovalchuk would be nice but we have NO grit on the top two lines. Somebody reincarnate Rick Tocchet circa 1992 for Sid's line.


Your Rick Tocchet got traded a year ago. Daniel Carcillo. For Laraque the biggest jobber ever.


I'm fairly confident that Daniel Carcillo's career will end up having more in common with the Ryan Hollwegs of the world than a guy like Rick Tocchet. Maybe if things break the right way he ends up having one good fluke year and ends up living off that for a while like Chris Simon did.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby PenguinMan on Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:54 pm

I hope that trade will never happen, it's like trading $10 for a 100, and we'd be the ones getting the 10.
Our defense is already depleted, what good this trade would accomplish?
It's way too early to pull something like this
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby farnham16 on Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:08 pm

PenguinMan wrote:I hope that trade will never happen, it's like trading $10 for a 100, and we'd be the ones getting the 10.
Our defense is already depleted, what good this trade would accomplish?
It's way too early to pull something like this


It would accomplish getting one the of best offensive players in the game and would most certainly help us score goals.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby knives of ice on Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:08 pm

Atlanta will definitely be dumping Kovy, its only a matter of time. there is no way in hell he will resign there. if getting him for Staal is a possibility the pens have to do it, the amount of top flight wingers to work with crosby is very limited and kovy is no doubt one of the best in the world
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Pitts on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:15 pm

Letang Is The Truth wrote:It will be tough to match an offer sheet he is going to receive for a big, young center who is a shut down defender and has the pedigree to develop into a great two way player.

This line continually cracks me up! What on earth leads everyone to believe that Staal is some insanely sought after rfa? Offer sheets are few and far between unless the GM's name is Kevin Lowe. I'd really like to know what will compel all the GM's of the NHL to throw tons of cash at a forward who can't hit the broad side of a barn.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby KG on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:18 pm

netwolf wrote:
Nizzy wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:This team has some problems. Kovalchuk would be nice but we have NO grit on the top two lines. Somebody reincarnate Rick Tocchet circa 1992 for Sid's line.


Your Rick Tocchet got traded a year ago. Daniel Carcillo. For Laraque the biggest jobber ever.


I'm fairly confident that Daniel Carcillo's career will end up having more in common with the Ryan Hollwegs of the world than a guy like Rick Tocchet. Maybe if things break the right way he ends up having one good fluke year and ends up living off that for a while like Chris Simon did.


I had no problem with the BGL trade. Carcillo is a punk. He is not a heavyweight in any way, which is what the pens needed at that time...
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Bob McKenzie on Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:05 pm

Carcillo couldn't hold Tocchet's jock strap.

The guy that's most like Tocchet in this league is Brenden Morrow.

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUoYSeweXBQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTIUBVIM1fs&NR=1 (Remember when Tocchet played with his broken jaw? How about fighting on one skate?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOvwXnu4gdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u754Ltxx6tU
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Letang Is The Truth on Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:51 am

Pitts wrote:
Letang Is The Truth wrote:It will be tough to match an offer sheet he is going to receive for a big, young center who is a shut down defender and has the pedigree to develop into a great two way player.

This line continually cracks me up! What on earth leads everyone to believe that Staal is some insanely sought after rfa? Offer sheets are few and far between unless the GM's name is Kevin Lowe. I'd really like to know what will compel all the GM's of the NHL to throw tons of cash at a forward who can't hit the broad side of a barn.


Allow me to explain myself. They may not throw a huge offer sheet at Staal; however, I imagine there would be a few teams to give ATLEAST Ryan Malone money (4.5 mill) and probably more in the neighborhood of 5-5.5 mill at a 20 year old center who scored 30 goals as an 18 year old who has size and a name that is known in hockey currently. There could be teams that would be looking for a young center with a large upside and is responsible in his own end and very solid on the kill that could stay there for a long time and anchor a team. 5.5 million is too much for the penguins to be spending on a third line center.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Noise on Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:12 am

If he gets offered 5.5 next year I'll eat my hat.

And Shero will have a bunch of nice draft picks, and some free money to sign some scoring talent.
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Guinness on Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:40 am

Staal still can't legally have a drink, and he's a very fine two-way center with a 29 goal season under his belt. He's TWO years + 10 games into his career, and he's not 21 yet. Not a lot of names around the league with that sort of resume. Man, fans are an impatient bunch!

That being said, I'd think it worth it to pick up Kovachoo!
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Pitts on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:06 am

Letang Is The Truth wrote:
Pitts wrote:
Letang Is The Truth wrote:It will be tough to match an offer sheet he is going to receive for a big, young center who is a shut down defender and has the pedigree to develop into a great two way player.

This line continually cracks me up! What on earth leads everyone to believe that Staal is some insanely sought after rfa? Offer sheets are few and far between unless the GM's name is Kevin Lowe. I'd really like to know what will compel all the GM's of the NHL to throw tons of cash at a forward who can't hit the broad side of a barn.


Allow me to explain myself. They may not throw a huge offer sheet at Staal; however, I imagine there would be a few teams to give ATLEAST Ryan Malone money (4.5 mill) and probably more in the neighborhood of 5-5.5 mill at a 20 year old center who scored 30 goals as an 18 year old who has size and a name that is known in hockey currently. There could be teams that would be looking for a young center with a large upside and is responsible in his own end and very solid on the kill that could stay there for a long time and anchor a team. 5.5 million is too much for the penguins to be spending on a third line center.

I still stand by my opinion that offer sheets are used very little. The GM who makes an offer sheet simply opens himself up to attack at a later date. It really isn't smart business practice to grab other team's assets in such a manner. Look at all the crap Lowe took over the Penner and Vanek offer sheets. I really, REALLY do not think Staal is worth all that to any GM out there. Staal really, REALLY isn't that good right now (at least for a big offer sheet and up to 5 draft picks).
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Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby pens#1 on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:14 am

all it take is 1 GM that is willing to gamble -with that said i really believe that if Staal doesnt sign or get traded he will recieve an offer sheet for a long tern deal worth a lot of money. Toronto jumps out as a team with cap space for it
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