NHL Live Rumor...

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Pitts on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:42 am

Toronto was a team that crossed my mind, and with Ferguson on the way out, maybe he pulls it off before he leaves. But, really, where does everyone see #1 center in Staal? I don't get it. If a team wants to throw a ton of cash at him hoping he develops into a number one center, let them have him. We could use the picks and the freed-up roster space. 3rd line centers can be found just about anywhere. I'd like to keep him around, but not if its going to cost the team $5 mil per season. He isn't worth it right now and may not be worth it for years.

EDIT: everyone likes to cite his 29 goal rookie season (as an 18 year old!!!), That was nearly 2 seasons ago. Can someone tell me what he has does since then to seriously warrant a $5mil per contract? Wow, he's a good penalty killer. So is Pascal Dupuis.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,683
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby fourtKNOX on Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:49 am

i have been thinking a lot about what I would do with Staal... we all know that we lost a lot of picks over the past couple years in dealing to make the run we did last year.

Anybody think that Shero is betting on him getting an offer sheet so the Pens gain some picks back. Its probably slim to none, but it has potential. Even if we do go out and get somebody this year, I wouldnt be shocked if Staal was not in the deal for this reason alone!
fourtKNOX
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,731
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:57 am
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Bob McKenzie on Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:11 pm

fourtKNOX wrote:i have been thinking a lot about what I would do with Staal... we all know that we lost a lot of picks over the past couple years in dealing to make the run we did last year.

Anybody think that Shero is betting on him getting an offer sheet so the Pens gain some picks back. Its probably slim to none, but it has potential. Even if we do go out and get somebody this year, I wouldnt be shocked if Staal was not in the deal for this reason alone!


No.
Bob McKenzie
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,975
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:07 am
Location: "I swear I will sign the contract, Mario." *fingers crossed*

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:08 am

EDIT: everyone likes to cite his 29 goal rookie season (as an 18 year old!!!), That was nearly 2 seasons ago. Can someone tell me what he has does since then to seriously warrant a $5mil per contract? Wow, he's a good penalty killer. So is Pascal Dupuis.


I don't disagree with your overall point but I hate these comparisons. When Dupuis was 20, he wasn't even part of an NHL organization. Staal's in his third season at that age. I know I'm stretching what you said a bit, but I don't think it can be said enough how young Staal is. He's nothing close to a finished product but he's treated as one. Whatever money he gets in his new contract will be based on that potential and the hope that he'll improve.

I agree the Pens can't pay him that much. That's why they should look into moving him if they can find a worthwhile deal, e.g. to Atlanta for Kovalchuk. If Staal has another season like last year it's probably the worst case scenario for this team because that's not enough improvement to feel totally great about investing in him long-term. Staal's worth whatever a team is able to pay him. To the Pens, that's not $5 million. I don't think it's that crazy to think that a team short on young talent and long on cap space would offer him something dumb like five years, $5 million. Vancouver's another team. They threw offer sheets out there this summer and offered Sundin $10 million. They're clearly willing to be unconventional to bring talent into their organization. The NHL has changed. Unfortunately, teams can't be as patient with young players as they should be and they have to take on risk to retain them (look at Whitney's contract).
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Pitts on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:16 am

Hank, I agree completely with you. I am just starting to think that his 29 goal rookie season was an aberration and not what we should expect from him.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,683
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby KG on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:18 am

Noise wrote:If he gets offered 5.5 next year I'll eat my hat.

And Shero will have a bunch of nice draft picks, and some free money to sign some scoring talent.


The main reason Staal is mentioned in rumors is because of his pending free agency. I don't think that anyone wants to move Staal but all it takes is one team to go in there with a strong offer that he accepts...

So Shero has to decide. Would he rather take the picks, move him, or hope he signs with them before free agency begins...
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,979
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby DocEmrick on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:23 am

My problem with Staal, and I think it's been mentioned here before, is that it's going to take him 4/5 years to mature. We don't have 4/5 years to sit around and wait. This team is built for a championship or 2, or 3, and we need to make the necessary moves to fill in around the core talent we have. Staal's future may be a bright one, it's ridiculous to sacrifice our opportunity to capture the cup a few times in the next few years.
DocEmrick
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,375
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:33 pm
Location: SETEC Astronomy

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby czwalga on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:24 am

KG wrote:
Noise wrote:If he gets offered 5.5 next year I'll eat my hat.

And Shero will have a bunch of nice draft picks, and some free money to sign some scoring talent.


The main reason Staal is mentioned in rumors is because of his pending free agency. I don't think that anyone wants to move Staal but all it takes is one team to go in there with a strong offer that he accepts...

So Shero has to decide. Would he rather take the picks, move him, or hope he signs with them before free agency begins...




I want to move staal badly. I've been saying this for about a year.
czwalga
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,476
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:36 pm

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:26 am

I always thought the 29 goal season was a bit fluky. He had seven shorties and had a stretch of something like ten goals in nine games in February. It wasn't as if he was consistently doing it all year. In that sense it's unfortunate because that season raised expectations to a level that were too high for him too soon. I still like his potential. Every so often you still see from him a guy that can dominate. He needs experience, he needs to be stronger, he needs to be more confident. The learning curve for a big guy like that is always longer. I'd imagine it takes some time to get a big body like that coordinated and to build up the confidence to be more assertive and physically dominant.

It really is still too early. Maybe he gets things going now and this is all a moot point. But the further we go into the season, if it's looking a lot like last year, they have to decide what the acceptable return for him would be if it comes to that. Getting a player that will help now or settling for the draft picks if they can't sign him. For a team in this position, I'd rather see them go for a Kovalchuk because they haven't won it yet and they're trying to win now. Draft picks will be helpful in sustaining this long-term but it'll be a major disappointment if this is just a good team for a while that never wins the Cup. I like the idea of getting Kovalchuk because you're getting an elite offensive player at a bargain price through next season and that gives this team two prime opportunities to win it all, and then beyond that you're looking at the young core of this team finally hitting its prime all at once.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby SolidSnake on Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:39 am

Henry Hank wrote:I always thought the 29 goal season was a bit fluky. He had seven shorties and had a stretch of something like ten goals in nine games in February. It wasn't as if he was consistently doing it all year. In that sense it's unfortunate because that season raised expectations to a level that were too high for him too soon. I still like his potential. Every so often you still see from him a guy that can dominate. He needs experience, he needs to be stronger, he needs to be more confident. The learning curve for a big guy like that is always longer. I'd imagine it takes some time to get a big body like that coordinated and to build up the confidence to be more assertive and physically dominant.

It really is still too early. Maybe he gets things going now and this is all a moot point. But the further we go into the season, if it's looking a lot like last year, they have to decide what the acceptable return for him would be if it comes to that. Getting a player that will help now or settling for the draft picks if they can't sign him. For a team in this position, I'd rather see them go for a Kovalchuk because they haven't won it yet and they're trying to win now. Draft picks will be helpful in sustaining this long-term but it'll be a major disappointment if this is just a good team for a while that never wins the Cup. I like the idea of getting Kovalchuk because you're getting an elite offensive player at a bargain price through next season and that gives this team two prime opportunities to win it all, and then beyond that you're looking at the young core of this team finally hitting its prime all at once.



This.
SolidSnake
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 19,127
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:41 pm
Location: Winners don't use drugs.- William S. Sessions.

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Pitts on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm

Henry Hank wrote:I like the idea of getting Kovalchuk because you're getting an elite offensive player at a bargain price through next season and that gives this team two prime opportunities to win it all, and then beyond that you're looking at the young core of this team finally hitting its prime all at once.

Agree! This is the best case scenario. As I stated before, with our young, and very good core locked up for at least 4-6 seasons, 1st and 2nd round picks really are not "that" valuable to the Pens. They do not need 1st rounders to come in and light it up as a rookies anymore. They need pieces to win the Cup with. We can afford to move another 1st rounder or two.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 18,683
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby Henry Hank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:43 pm

Well, in principal I'm not too big on continually dealing draft picks away. While I want this team to win championships in the very near future, I also want them to sustain success. I want them to be like Detroit and Dallas and New Jersey, consistently an elite team.

That said, the Pens seemingly have been doing pretty well in drafting after the first round in recent years. Goligoski, Letang, and Kennedy were all drafted after the first round. Guys like Caputi and Pierro-Zabotel and Grant and Moon were later picks and are looking like solid prospects. As long as they have guys like Crosby and Malkin, those are the types of prospects they need, they don't need a constant stream of blue chippers. And especially given their success, a first round pick isn't quite a first round pick anyway. The one they traded to Atlanta last year was practically an early second rounder.

I'd be willing to do something like Staal, a first, and a mid-level prospect for a Kovalchuk. I definitely don't like the idea of putting a Letang or Goligoski in that deal. That's too much talent to send away. If you're resigned to losing Staal one way or another, I think you have to trade him. Like in my example, let's say Toronto or Vancouver sends him a five years, $25 million deal. That's far too rich for the Pens and as far as I can tell, the compensation is only a first, second, and third rounder. That's not adequate compensation for a team that has an opportunity to win now.
Henry Hank
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 12,480
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby penny lane on Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:09 pm

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/529055

leafs think they get first dibs on every star. :) Ilya to Montreal; interesting.
penny lane
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 28,622
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:29 pm
Location: Have fun, kick butt!

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby HomerPenguin on Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:46 pm

I don't want to rehash things that are already dead here, but did somebody in this thread seriously try to compare Daniel Carcillo to Rick Tocchet?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
HomerPenguin
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:50 pm
Location: ...

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby shane613 on Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:31 pm

TRADE STAAL HE'S AN UGNAUGHT
shane613
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,056
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: New Kensington

Re: NHL Live Rumor...

Postby bhaw on Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:44 pm

HomerPenguin wrote:I don't want to rehash things that are already dead here, but did somebody in this thread seriously try to compare Daniel Carcillo to Rick Tocchet?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



It hurts to figure out what about him reminds someone of Tocchet. Carcillo hasn't even put up penalty minutes this year, which is all he's good for.

Did you notice in the game vs the Pens that Gretzky refused to put him on the ice starting about 10 min left in the third period (after he got the penalty for blind siding Sykora)? It's not a good thing when your coach doesn't trust you to play on your regular line when you are winning.
bhaw
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 27,003
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:00 pm
Location: From Hockey Siberia to Hockey Hell

Previous

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cde1024, Great58, jcgopens, Realist, sdadowski, shootinthepuck, skullman80, slipshod and 24 guests


e-mail