what exactly is missing from the defense?

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what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:35 pm

Besides the obvious with gonchar and whitney being out, why is it that the penguins seems to be giving away A LOT of good chances, especially lately. Is it just me who notices? I feel like the opposing teams are getting a lot of odd man breaks where a penguin has to scramble back for or the goalie has to make a big save. For some reason to me it just seems that the defensive system isnt as tight as it was last year. Is it the forwards, is it the young Dmen? Why do you guys think that opposing teams seem to be able to break through our defense so easily. Its hard to win games when you give up so many shots and so many chances.

I know a lot of people dont want to discuss this right now, especially after a big win, but I bring it up because Id like to see progress. The offense seems like its finally getting it together: satan and crosby are seeming to get it together and should only get better, malkin has been fantastic, staal looks to be picking it up a little, we are consistently getting scoring from other guys like TK, Ziggo, etc. Id like to see Sykora get back to form but otherwise i think the O game looks good.

I just wonder what it is about the D that is keeping this team from being unstoppable.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby FlyersLoL on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:54 pm

Relax. It is still early. There has only been one game in which they gave up a ridiculous amount of shots. We still are pretty high on blocked shots, which is a testament to how well they play defense in our own zone. Turning the puck over lately is mostly due to inexperienced blue-liners in my opinion, but still it hasn't been that big of deal either. Could they be playing better defensively? Sure they could, but we also aren't a boring defense-first team.

The real problem (which has always been the Penguins problem for eons) is they never shoot the puck. They have been shooting more lately, so I hope they continue doing it.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby meecrofilm on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:02 pm

The wings are probably the most offensively talented team the Pens have faced thus far. If you're not on top of your d-game against them, they'll make you pay.

Plus, having probably their best defensive D-man in Scuderi out for most of the game probably didn't help. Tough to roll 5-D against Detroit (Although they've done that before :lol: )
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rocco on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:03 pm

The Answer. That's what's missing.

Seriously, I think you pretty much said what's missing- Whitney and Gonchar. It's messed up a lot of the pairings and guys are playing more minutes and in spots they weren't last year.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby penny lane on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:04 pm

I don't have the X and O answer that others will have, but it seems that with the 2 young and new guys,
they are managing much better than I thought they would. Judgement of when to jump up, skate back.
Forwards and defense trying to get into units of five skaters but with injuries and potpurri line changes, no cohesion in early October. Tres' improvement.
Plus, only with the sharks & detroit did they look a bit over matched.

Penguin defense; I always want them to do well since they tend to get overlooked with the forwards/goalie.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Henry Hank on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:05 pm

Playing without Gonchar and Whitney can't be understated. Not only their loss, but also the increased responsibility it gives the other guys, who usually are lower on the totem pole. Defense doesn't just involve defensemen - there are a lot of new forwards still getting used to the system and playing D (Satan). In general, there's been sloppy play throughout the team, but that's not entirely hard to imagine... it's November. They'll tighten up for the playoffs.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby wallflower on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:19 pm

Are we seriously going to start worrying/complaining about the defense again?

The defense, as a whole, has been good. Better than I expected without Gonchar & Whitney and having Letang & Goligoski in bigger roles than they would've [should've] been in otherwise.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:25 pm

wallflower wrote:Are we seriously going to start worrying/complaining about the defense again?

The defense, as a whole, has been good. Better than I expected without Gonchar & Whitney and having Letang & Goligoski in bigger roles than they would've [should've] been in otherwise.



i dont think the defense has been very good. i have seen a lot of turnovers, oddman breaks, hesitancy, failure to clear the zone, lack of hustle, etc. i wanted input from people to see wherein the deficit lies: young dmen? forwards forgoing responsibilty? new players not knowing the system? etc
Last edited by Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Bathgate on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:26 pm

Is it just me or does it seem that nearly every game the opposition gets a great chance from a guy leaving the penalty box behind our defense? It has cost us goals. Should we not make sure to move a defenseman back with about 5 or 10 seconds left in a power play to prevent that, unless we are behind and have to gamble?
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:27 pm

Rohit wrote:
wallflower wrote:Are we seriously going to start worrying/complaining about the defense again?

The defense, as a whole, has been good. Better than I expected without Gonchar & Whitney and having Letang & Goligoski in bigger roles than they would've [should've] been in otherwise.



did i express worry or complaint?

this is what i hate about ppl on lgp, they assume DISCUSSION of shortcomings is equivalent to worrying or whining

i dont think the defense has been very good. i have seen a lot of turnovers, oddman breaks, hesitancy, failure to clear the zone, lack of hustle, etc. i wanted input from people to see wherein the deficit lies: young dmen? forwards forgoing responsibilty? new players not knowing the system? etc

so yes, i will DISCUSS the defense again


Fine, then to answer your question, nothing is missing from the defense.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby wallflower on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:27 pm

Rohit wrote:
wallflower wrote:Are we seriously going to start worrying/complaining about the defense again?

The defense, as a whole, has been good. Better than I expected without Gonchar & Whitney and having Letang & Goligoski in bigger roles than they would've [should've] been in otherwise.



did i express worry or complaint?

this is what i hate about ppl on lgp, they assume DISCUSSION of shortcomings is equivalent to worrying or whining

i dont think the defense has been very good. i have seen a lot of turnovers, oddman breaks, hesitancy, failure to clear the zone, lack of hustle, etc. i wanted input from people to see wherein the deficit lies: young dmen? forwards forgoing responsibilty? new players not knowing the system? etc

so yes, i will DISCUSS the defense again

I was making a general statement - if I had been responding to you in particular, I would've quoted your post.

Funny that you go on a rant about people jumping all over others for assuming things when it was you who was guilty of doing it. Chill out.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:28 pm

Bathgate wrote:Is it just me or does it seem that nearly every game the opposition gets a great chance from a guy leaving the penalty box behind our defense? It has cost us goals. Should we not make sure to move a defenseman back with about 5 or 10 seconds left in a power play to prevent that, unless we are behind and have to gamble?



i think malkin is still getting used to the point position, you can see sometimes he fumbles a bit, but luckily he has the skating ability to make up for it if the opposing team gets a jump on him
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:29 pm

wallflower wrote:
Rohit wrote:
wallflower wrote:Are we seriously going to start worrying/complaining about the defense again?

The defense, as a whole, has been good. Better than I expected without Gonchar & Whitney and having Letang & Goligoski in bigger roles than they would've [should've] been in otherwise.



did i express worry or complaint?

this is what i hate about ppl on lgp, they assume DISCUSSION of shortcomings is equivalent to worrying or whining

i dont think the defense has been very good. i have seen a lot of turnovers, oddman breaks, hesitancy, failure to clear the zone, lack of hustle, etc. i wanted input from people to see wherein the deficit lies: young dmen? forwards forgoing responsibilty? new players not knowing the system? etc

so yes, i will DISCUSS the defense again

I was making a general statement - if I had been responding to you in particular, I would've quoted your post.

Funny that you go on a rant about people jumping all over others for assuming things when it was you who was guilty of doing it. Chill out.



i just dont understand why stuff like that cant just be left out. its not hard to just say "the defense has actually been better than i expected"
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby wallflower on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:31 pm

My deepest & most sincere apologies. I'll keep my opinion to myself in the future.

:roll:
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Gage18 on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:32 pm

You need to remember gogo is still a rookie, we are without our 2 top defenseman, and Scuds was out...obviously we are doing well thus far in the season...


Any word on Scuds?
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby farnham16 on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:34 pm

The only things missing from the defense is Gonchar and Whitney. Once they come back, this will be the best defense in the East.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:34 pm

wallflower wrote:My deepest & most sincere apologies. I'll keep my opinion to myself in the future.

:roll:


ok
Last edited by Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:37 pm

farnham16 wrote:The only things missing from the defense is Gonchar and Whitney. Once they come back, this will be the best defense in the East.



is it that simple? i mean gonchar was great on D last year but whitney was prone to a lot of mistakes.

although it may be something as simple as greater puck position with those two back that will cut down on defensive blunders
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby LeopardLetang on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:37 pm

Rohit wrote:
wallflower wrote:My deepest & most sincere apologies. I'll keep my opinion to myself in the future.

:roll:


thanks


i don't think those apologies were really deep and sincere. i wouldn't have accepted
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Idoit40fans on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:39 pm

Rohit wrote:
farnham16 wrote:The only things missing from the defense is Gonchar and Whitney. Once they come back, this will be the best defense in the East.



is it that simple? i mean gonchar was great on D last year but whitney was prone to a lot of mistakes.

although it may be something as simple as greater puck position with those two back that will cut down on defensive blunders


Yes, it is that simple. Even at 80% or whatever they're gonna be capable of when they get back, they solve the only significant problem the defense has: transition.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby TheHammer24 on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:39 pm

I still maintain that all of this team's problems can be pinned on the defense's inability to move the puck effectively. This disrupts the flow of our transition game, and without a transition game are forward talents is going to be severely weakened.

and yes, Gonch and Whit will fix this, but until then....
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby Rohit on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:41 pm

LeopardLetang wrote:
Rohit wrote:
wallflower wrote:My deepest & most sincere apologies. I'll keep my opinion to myself in the future.

:roll:


thanks


i don't think those apologies were really deep and sincere. i wouldn't have accepted


yeah i was just amusing myself so i was editing away all the fluff in my other post. i made my point so it doesnt need to explode into more uselessness

thanks, though
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby LeopardLetang on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:47 pm

TheHammer24 wrote:I still maintain that all of this team's problems can be pinned on the defense's inability to move the puck effectively. This disrupts the flow of our transition game, and without a transition game are forward talents is going to be severely weakened.

and yes, Gonch and Whit will fix this, but until then....


it's true. you hate having to dump and chase so much with guys like crosby and malkin on the ice. gonch and whit will help this. i think most of the chances given up though are a result of frustration from the poor transition game. meaning, an overaggressive forecheck at times
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby CKA24 on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:52 pm

Honestly, I think that the oddman breaks should be attributed to an 'addition' not something being missing. I've noticed this year that the D-men are more aggressive in the offensive zone, pinching to keep the play alive. Letang has become more confident, Sydor has always had the presence to do so, GoGo does it, and I even see guys like Orpik, Scuderi, and Eaton following suit.

It's no secret that pinching will give the other team a chance for an odd-man break here and there, but I'll take the risk if it helps us in the offensive zone.

Also, as has been said before, the lack of Whits/Gonch and the green-ness of Letang, GoGo. I've seen GoGo make some awful giveaways... surprising he doesn't get torched like Whits did... Albeit, in Alex's defense, I've been impressed and love how he's played this season.
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Re: what exactly is missing from the defense?

Postby littlemoonboot on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:54 pm

Detroit's fans were howling about their defensive game last night and as of late. I don't know what their excuse is given they don't have a lot of injuries and a lot of solid veterans. The old Cup hangover, maybe. Not that I'M complaining. :)
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