Reality of Staal

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Reality of Staal

Postby icecats30 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:28 pm

people that are all about staal now still need to look at the facts, so this is how i see it..

1. Staal still isnt any good at wing, and he is way to talented to be a 3rd liner for half his career.

2. He has 7 goals, but 2 are empty netters, and 3 came in 1 game... how about we get a bigger sample size before everyone deems him "back"..don't forget.. his 29 goals before included 7 shorthanded goals.

3. IF he continues his pace, and plays like we know he can over the rest of the season.. there is no way he will sign below 4.5 million/year, and IMO that is simply WAY to much for a 3rd line center, on any level.

I much rather see him have a monster year again, let someone pay him the 5 or 5.5 million he'd probably get, and collect all the draft picks for compensation.

All in all, id like to see him have a huge year, help us win the cup.. and then go to a team where he can develop into the 1st or 2nd line center he was born to be.
icecats30
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:05 pm

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby KG on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:33 pm

I hear what you're saying. But I still think that Staal wants to sign here long term. He is young and is comfortable with this group.

5/20...that's the deal = )
KG
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,979
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:53 am
Location: NY

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:44 pm

I'm not the biggest staal fan, but i've always stuck up for him in regards to the criticism he gets. Regardless of how he is playing, he is 20 years old. Hardly any guys even make it by then. He is in year 3. That's why no one should have given up on him the way many people have.

Then suddenly he gets on a hot streak and it's like everyone is back on his bandwagon.

The fact of the matter is he is going to be a very good center in this league within the next couple of years. It's a shame the way contracts go now, because it would be a lot easier for us to keep him around if the first contract after the rookie contract wasn't gigantic. Unfortunately, these guys are getting huge money on their first contract (penner, vanek, etc.) and that's really screwing teams over. Ideally, we'd sign him to something similar to what filppula got and then, after he proves himself as a top-notch forward, either give him his big contract or allow him to walk.

It would be a terrible idea to give him his extension now, after a hot streak. Gotta let this season play out and see how he establishes himself, then determine how much we are willing to expend on him. If the amount he wants is way above that, then we're gonna have to deal him or take the picks.
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,837
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Three Stars on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:45 pm

icecats30 wrote:people that are all about staal now still need to look at the facts, so this is how i see it..


That's called "opinion".

1. Staal still isnt any good at wing, and he is way to talented to be a 3rd liner for half his career.


Why does the concept of a talented 3rd liner offend people? If the Pens are to have a 3rd line center, I'd rather he be a darn good one who can pot some goals. Taking scoring burden off of the top two lines is a Good Thing.

2. He has 7 goals, but 2 are empty netters, and 3 came in 1 game... how about we get a bigger sample size before everyone deems him "back"..don't forget.. his 29 goals before included 7 shorthanded goals.


Ok.

3. IF he continues his pace, and plays like we know he can over the rest of the season.. there is no way he will sign below 4.5 million/year, and IMO that is simply WAY to much for a 3rd line center, on any level.


How much is an elite 3rd line worth, IF he develops to that level? I'd like to be able to comfortably shut down other teams' scoring lines while scoring timely goals. Get that on a consistent basis, and I'd say he's worth the money.

I much rather see him have a monster year again, let someone pay him the 5 or 5.5 million he'd probably get, and collect all the draft picks for compensation.


Those hypothetical other teams have to decide on a salary level that they're willing to pay, and correlate it with the number of draft picks they're willing to give up. As he's being deemed overrated at this point, how many first rounders is Staal really worth?

All in all, id like to see him have a huge year, help us win the cup.. and then go to a team where he can develop into the 1st or 2nd line center he was born to be.


I'd rather have him as the Penguins' elite third line center for the foreseeable future. Barring that, sign him for as reasonable a deal as possible, and use him as a trading chip. It's a better rate of return (as opposed to draft picks).
Last edited by Three Stars on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Three Stars
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,577
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:14 pm
Location: And now for something completely different.

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Why So Serious? on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:46 pm

KG wrote:I hear what you're saying. But I still think that Staal wants to sign here long term. He is young and is comfortable with this group.

5/20...that's the deal = )


Perfect. Didn't somebody post in another Staal thread recently that Staal wants to resign with the Pens and he wants to do it soon? Sounds like he wants to be a Pen for a very long time.

And in my opinion, Jordan is going to be a great player as long as all the limelight isn't on him. I think he would want nothing more than to share the limelight with Crosby and Malkin. I just don't know if he would be as effective if he is "the guy" on another team. I'm not saying he would wilt and just be terrible being the number 1 or number 2 guy elsewhere, I just think that he has the potential to be a great player if he doesn't have all that pressure on him. And if he is playing on the same team as Sidney and Evgeni, he won't have to put up 40-50 goals/season. He can just play his game, which he has been doing the last 6 games.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Mr. Colby on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:46 pm

agree with everything 3*s said
Mr. Colby
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,837
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:33 pm
Location: Born and Raised in Kent Manderville

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Why So Serious? on Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:48 pm

icecats30 wrote:people that are all about staal now still need to look at the facts, so this is how i see it..

1. Staal still isnt any good at wing, and he is way to talented to be a 3rd liner for half his career.

2. He has 7 goals, but 2 are empty netters, and 3 came in 1 game... how about we get a bigger sample size before everyone deems him "back"..don't forget.. his 29 goals before included 7 shorthanded goals.

3. IF he continues his pace, and plays like we know he can over the rest of the season.. there is no way he will sign below 4.5 million/year, and IMO that is simply WAY to much for a 3rd line center, on any level.

I much rather see him have a monster year again, let someone pay him the 5 or 5.5 million he'd probably get, and collect all the draft picks for compensation.

All in all, id like to see him have a huge year, help us win the cup.. and then go to a team where he can develop into the 1st or 2nd line center he was born to be.



Sounds like you would much rather have Jordan Staal play for another team.
Why So Serious?
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,610
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: This aggression will not stand, man

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby PenguinSteve-o on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:00 pm

if we can sign a great winger for crosby and our powerplay and its long term then id drop staal.
but of course we want to keep Staal, and of course we wanted to keep Malone. But it might not be the best choice in the end. we shall see.
PenguinSteve-o
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,902
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:39 pm
Location: 6burgh

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Noise on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:04 pm

icecats30 wrote:people that are all about staal now still need to look at the facts, so this is how i see it..

1. Staal still isnt any good at wing, and he is way to talented to be a 3rd liner for half his career.

2. He has 7 goals, but 2 are empty netters, and 3 came in 1 game... how about we get a bigger sample size before everyone deems him "back"..don't forget.. his 29 goals before included 7 shorthanded goals.

3. IF he continues his pace, and plays like we know he can over the rest of the season.. there is no way he will sign below 4.5 million/year, and IMO that is simply WAY to much for a 3rd line center, on any level.

I much rather see him have a monster year again, let someone pay him the 5 or 5.5 million he'd probably get, and collect all the draft picks for compensation.

All in all, id like to see him have a huge year, help us win the cup.. and then go to a team where he can develop into the 1st or 2nd line center he was born to be.



How about you watch the way he is playing and not actually just look at the stats?

His play of late has been much better and it has resulted in goals. 5-5.5 a year? Good-bye. Nice knowing you Staalsy. But I think you're completely overestimating.

I think it will be more like 4 million, and 4 Million a year isn't bad if it can help the Pens maintain that great depth down the center and have 3 lines that are threats to score like they do now, as well as provide a shutdown defensive presence.
Noise
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 5,439
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 am

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Va Beach Pens Fan on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:41 pm

4 million if he stays a Penguin, he'll get much more on the market, if it ever comes to that...
Va Beach Pens Fan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 793
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:47 pm

I don't care where he plays a little better, if he actually starts showing the capacity to score consistently, they're gonna need to make him a scoring line winger. People think its great to have a great 3rd line center, well think about this: If you pay Staal ~$4M a year, you get rid of that Sykora or Satan type player on one of the top two lines. How does Talbot - Crosby - Dupuis sound to you? How about Fedotenko - Malkin - Cooke? I don't care if you plug the best available role player they have, if Staal continues to score goals, even if its just at a ~20-25 a year pace, he has to play wing in the future.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,547
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby darkstar57 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:52 pm

i am tired of this he is a Third Liner center so lets drop him for a scoring winger debate.

YES, he does center the third line, but he is also one of the top PKer's on the team, and as he learns to play in front of the net on the power play he will get more time there. He is also out there at the end of the games to perserve leads. Next time we are up 1 or 2 at the end of the game, look who is on the ice, its Staal. When Malkin moves up to Crosby's line to try to get a tying goal, who moves up to 2nd line center? Staal, why because it still gives us the ability to roll two lines at the end of the game and be deadly. Staal is more then a third line center and the MT and the team treat him like he is more, they wanted to make him a winger but everyone realizes that for him to be good he has to be a center. its hard to get depth down the center like we have,
darkstar57
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,025
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Mongoose87 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:06 pm

Idoit40fans wrote:I don't care where he plays a little better, if he actually starts showing the capacity to score consistently, they're gonna need to make him a scoring line winger. People think its great to have a great 3rd line center, well think about this: If you pay Staal ~$4M a year, you get rid of that Sykora or Satan type player on one of the top two lines. How does Talbot - Crosby - Dupuis sound to you? How about Fedotenko - Malkin - Cooke? I don't care if you plug the best available role player they have, if Staal continues to score goals, even if its just at a ~20-25 a year pace, he has to play wing in the future.


He might never be that winger, but, you know what? If he plays well, he'll bring that winger here from a team that has a sport for a good center. Any number of teams in the league would love to have Staal play 2nd line center, now, and 1st line center when he's more experienced.
Mongoose87
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,908
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 pm
Location: The breakfast table of TRIUMPH!

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Fast B on Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:49 pm

I also like that Staal's scoring 7 shorthanded goals as a rookie is somehow a bad thing.
Fast B
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,879
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:36 pm
Location: San Mateo, CA

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Idoit40fans on Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:51 pm

Fast B wrote:I also like that Staal's scoring 7 shorthanded goals as a rookie is somehow a bad thing.


I was having trouble figuring that out too.
Idoit40fans
NHL Third Liner
NHL Third Liner
 
Posts: 53,547
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: I'm sorry you feel that way

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby pens#1 on Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:59 pm

Crosby should be Staal's winger
pens#1
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 13,885
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: allentown

Re: Reality of Staal

Postby Kicksave on Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:04 pm

Mr. Colby wrote:agree with everything 3*s said



Who is 3 asterisks?
Kicksave
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,572
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:53 am
Location: Feeling like I want to rage...right now.


Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Luckybreak, RisslingsMissingTeeth and 9 guests


e-mail