"Conservative think tank" has ideas for arena $$

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

"Conservative think tank" has ideas for arena $$

Postby NIN on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:41 am

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/06059/662209.stm

Just who is this "think tank"? Whoever it is im gald Onorato is interested in what they are looking into. The more options there are the more likely they will stay, especially options that don't include Penguin money. Because as we all know (Jagr/Kucera dump) they don't have any.
NIN
 

Postby skullman80 on Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:02 am

It's a nice idea, but I really don't think there is an real merit behind their proposal.
skullman80
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 20,071
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:55 am
Location: New Kensington, PA

Postby Mango Salsa on Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:53 am

I'm glad they're trying to come up with an alternative plan to IOC but I can't see the Penguins embracing this idea because of this...

Other revenues for financing the arena, which is expected to cost about $300 million, could be generated through the sale of seat licenses, luxury box rentals, concessions, in-arena advertising and event fees.


Those are alot of revenue streams that the Pens are counting on that will be used to pay for the areana.

Tom McMillan's response....

Penguins spokesman Tom McMillan said the team has met the challenge of privately funding a new arena through the Isle of Capri proposal. He said the Allegheny Institute should get behind it.

"The Isle of Capri plan will fully fund construction of a new multipurpose arena and therefore free any public money that may have been targeted for an arena to be used for other important projects in the city and county," he said.
Mango Salsa
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,485
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:43 pm
Location: Inside a Filet-o-Fish sandwich

Postby bill from turtle creek on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:06 am

The good news is that more proposals keep getting floated. I interpret this to mean that everyone pretty much acknowledges that this thing is going to get done; the question is how.
bill from turtle creek
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:15 pm
Location: Serenity Now, Serenity Now.

Postby Bowser on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:08 am

that is a HORRIBLE plan!!! How does the think tank, who has connections to the Harrah's group, think the Penguins are going to be able to pay for the expenses of running a competitive hockey organization if the majority of the revenue streams are being spent to pay for the arena.

What a blatant attempt to push away the IOC plan while criticizing the Penguins.

Pathetic.
Bowser
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,963
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:08 am

Postby NIN on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:14 am

Bowser wrote:that is a HORRIBLE plan!!! How does the think tank, who has connections to the Harrah's group, think the Penguins are going to be able to pay for the expenses of running a competitive hockey organization if the majority of the revenue streams are being spent to pay for the arena.

What a blatant attempt to push away the IOC plan while criticizing the Penguins.

Pathetic.


If they have Hurray connections then it cant be good. My guess was that an undisclosed member of the Penguins party was invovled due to the recent off the record meetings that took place. Of cousre that would jeopardise everything with Capri so what the hell was I thinking? :roll:

How do you know Hurray is involved anyways? Are you sleeping with the enemy? :shock:
NIN
 

Postby Bowser on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:47 am

People talk and connections are made between political organizations and business associates in the city. The President of Duquesne is already under pressure by some well-to-do alumni for his comments criticizing the IOC Plan and all but ignoring the obvious Station Square development easily accessible for students.
Bowser
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,963
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:08 am

Postby Bowser on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:55 am

A Joke of a Plan by Allegheny Institute

The conservative think tank released a 'plan' so horribly constructed, they must have entertained high schoolers to devise it. Another organization with loose ties to Station Square and Harrah's investors has come out to offer their "Plan B" rooted so deeply in fantasy, where can one begin.

"Here's a better plan: The Penguins or a developer should create an arena corporation or a partnership and sell shares or find investment partners. The group could then sell naming rights to a local corporation. The goal should be $100 million to $150 million. At that point the group could borrow against seat license sales, long-term luxury box rentals, concessions revenue, in-arena advertising, rental fees for events at the new arena, etc., to raise the rest of the needed money."

HELLO McFly, Lemieux has attempted to recruit investment partners since 1999 to help build a new arena and has been unable to attract the needed funding to this project, besides IOC. This is why he's asked for some public money, which was promised to him prior to owning the team. It is also that same public money, Lemieux was told by the Governor, past & present Mayor, and past & present Chief County Executive that was no longer available or an option.

The arena naming rights should net between $50-60 million over a 30-year agreement, this was part of the Isle of Capri plan. Old arena plans from the team did state they would invest $47 million into the project. I am almost certain that money would be a combination of revenues generated by the team and money fronted by the ownership's investors.

How does this "think tank" expect the Penguins to operate a competitive hockey operation, if the majority of its revenues generated at the arena are being used to payoff the arena? Where are the financial projections for the price of each stock, how many would need to be sold? How much revenue would the team need to generate to pay such a price tag? Where are the numbers?

I'd also like to hear how the Penguins will be able to generate enough competition for the required seat licensing sales. The Penguins do not have the same support as the Steelers and most NFL teams. Another non-starter based in fantasy offered by the 'think tank'.

"And what happens to the Isle of Capri's offer to turn over $290 million for a new arena? It simply can amend the proposal presented to the state. Instead of the money being designated for a new arena, the $290 million would be turned over to the Intergovernmental Cooperation Authority (the oversight board) to be held in escrow for city debt reduction and for no other purpose. "

Why should Isle of Capri involve itself in the politics of a region that has failed to do anything right in over 30 years? Yes, that includes both parties. The oversight board receives tax money itself to pay costs of such an organization, government should be eliminating agencies and taxes.

If the Allegheny Institute for Public Policy believes this plan is viable, back it up. Show the numbers and stand behind them. Instead, what the Penguins and many others observe is another attack by a conservative group of people refusing to adequately inform the public of the situation because of its agenda of supporting the Harrah's plan at Station Square.
Bowser
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,963
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:08 am

Postby NIN on Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:07 am

Yeah after having my coffee I can see the light, or should I say bullcrap. They left the "plan" vague and borrowed popular selling points from the Penguins plan to belittle their efforts and deflect criticism which is destroying Onoratos career around here.

They can keep printing this stuff if they like. The bottom line is if the Pens leave so goes my vote. If they try to tax me for a new arena and take a huge gamble on the NBA when the NHL is alive and well here already. Well, lets just say another community will receive my hard earned dollars.
NIN
 

Postby Nihar on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:33 am

Bowser wrote: think tank, who has connections to the Harrah's group...



Gee, a conservative group attempting to hold a community hostage through mudslinging, aggressivity, and cronyism.... Where have I heard of that before? :)
Nihar
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:09 am
Location: Providence, RI

Postby Bowser on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:36 am

Let me make this clear, cronyism and bribery is taking place on both sides of the party aisle. Republicans and Democrats are royally screwing things up in Pennsylvania. In PA, Republicans have a great shot to over-throw some key Democrat positions, yet they'll be unable to do it because they are deeply rooted in the same lobbyist money trail.
Bowser
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,963
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:08 am

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:37 am

Nihar wrote:
Bowser wrote: think tank, who has connections to the Harrah's group...



Gee, a conservative group attempting to hold a community hostage through mudslinging, aggressivity, and cronyism.... Where have I heard of that before? :)


Interesting take.

Up until now it's been liberal Democrats at all levels City, County, and State, who have cozyed up to Harrahs and F.C. to commandeer the license processes. Nice try to make the conservatives the bad guys though.

In all fairness, the conservatives don't have a corner on that market, has it been so long since the Clinton Administration that we've all forgotten already?
Last edited by ExPatriatePen on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Nihar on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:40 am

It was a joke about our current executive branch. Believe me, I don't trust government on either side of the aisle either.
Nihar
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:09 am
Location: Providence, RI

Postby ExPatriatePen on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:45 am

Bowser wrote:Let me make this clear, cronyism and bribery is taking place on both sides of the party aisle. Republicans and Democrats are royally screwing things up in Pennsylvania. In PA, Republicans have a great shot to over-throw some key Democrat positions, yet they'll be unable to do it because they are deeply rooted in the same lobbyist money trail.


You bet Bowser. I'd really like to see a third party develop at the local level in PA. It won't happen for another 20 years though. Most folks 50 and over (And I'm nearly in that category myself), wouldn't dream of changing party affiliation.
ExPatriatePen
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 22,691
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:57 pm
Location: Source, Destination, Protocol, Port, size, sequence number, check sum... Yep, that about covers it.

Postby Bowser on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:49 am

EPP - I agree. The gov't in PA is broken, it is too bad militias couldn't be used to overtake the corrupt commonwealth.
Bowser
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 7,963
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:08 am

Postby dboss on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:51 am

Bowser wrote:EPP - I agree. The gov't in PA is broken, it is too bad militias couldn't be used to overtake the corrupt commonwealth.


I call dibs on taking out Rendell!
dboss
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:33 am
Location: McCandless Twp, PA

Postby HomerPenguin on Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:05 pm

Bowser wrote:that is a HORRIBLE plan!!! How does the think tank, who has connections to the Harrah's group, think the Penguins are going to be able to pay for the expenses of running a competitive hockey organization if the majority of the revenue streams are being spent to pay for the arena.

What a blatant attempt to push away the IOC plan while criticizing the Penguins.

Pathetic.


It's Jerry Bowyer's "think"tank. I'm frankly surprised that their plan wasn't to pray real real hard until God makes a new arena fall out of the sky free of charge.

I think you're setting the bar a little too high for these folks.
HomerPenguin
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 10,884
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:50 am
Location: ...

Postby passmaster16 on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:30 pm

This "think tank" has had a track record of not supporting new sports facilities...period Check their webiste...It speaks for itself http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org So it's not a surprise that they spew out garbage like this. What I don't understand is, why do people act as though the money offered by IoC is simply public money for the taking? The money is nothing more than a bargaining chip for IoC to get a chance at the license. The Pens got a private investor...IoC who is going to build the arena in return for the right to the slots license. If the Pens were able to generate the funs via private investors, corporate sponsorship, etc, I do not believe that we would be sitting in this positing right now.

As already mentioned, talk is just that, talk. Anybody can come up with an idea that sounds good but when you put it into action, it wouldn't work.
passmaster16
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,578
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:42 pm
Location: West Mifflin, PA

Postby DayWalker on Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:45 pm

passmaster16 wrote:This "think tank" has had a track record of not supporting new sports facilities...period Check their webiste...It speaks for itself http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org So it's not a surprise that they spew out garbage like this. What I don't understand is, why do people act as though the money offered by IoC is simply public money for the taking? The money is nothing more than a bargaining chip for IoC to get a chance at the license. The Pens got a private investor...IoC who is going to build the arena in return for the right to the slots license. If the Pens were able to generate the funs via private investors, corporate sponsorship, etc, I do not believe that we would be sitting in this positing right now.

As already mentioned, talk is just that, talk. Anybody can come up with an idea that sounds good but when you put it into action, it wouldn't work.


Funny, but I seem to recall a "similar" plan offered by the Allegheny Institute in 2005.

And 2004.

And 2003.

And 2002.

And 2001.

And so on.

Someone should ask them why they believe a private entity would be willing to entertain an arena-financing deal that will deprive them of future revenues-naming rights revenue, luxury box revenue, advertising revenue, etc.-when they can obtain a much better deal with those revenue streams in hand elsewhere?

And it is sorta funny that a conservative/libertarian think tank-a group with whom I actually agree with on a number of other points-would suggest that IoC could use $290 million to help with the city's debt financing (IoC as an enabler? Fascinating Mr. Haulk.) Anyway, I am guessing that the IoC provides the $290 million for an arena, or it pockets it. Doesn't seem too hard to understand...

Either the Allegheny Institute is stupid or disingenuous. I am guessing the latter.
DayWalker
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,748
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Parts Unknown

Postby netwolf on Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:14 pm

From the article: "Other revenues for financing the arena, which is expected to cost about $300 million, could be generated through the sale of seat licenses, luxury box rentals, concessions, in-arena advertising and event fees."

No plan that is to be taken seriously should contain the word "could." That is code for "we haven't really figured that out yet."
netwolf
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 15,447
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:04 am

Postby NIN on Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:43 pm

netwolf wrote:From the article: "Other revenues for financing the arena, which is expected to cost about $300 million, could be generated through the sale of seat licenses, luxury box rentals, concessions, in-arena advertising and event fees."

No plan that is to be taken seriously should contain the word "could." That is code for "we haven't really figured that out yet."


That set off an alarm in my mind as well. If you take away the naming rights they are suggesting that the Penguins take out a loan for themselves with the loaner being....themselves :? ?

That is not very clever and it is in fact insulting. Funny how this little group was assembled years ago to "deal" with the issue but they have done nothing but deflect negative press from the politicians, which is exactly what they are trying to do now.

Funny how our tax dollars go into these confidential "think" tanks yet they are kept shrowded in secrecy. The Isle of Capri appear to be the closest thing to honesty in this commonwealth.
NIN
 


Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Beveridge, BurghThing, Inkio, JS©, lazydaze203, sj? and 37 guests


e-mail