2018 Summer Game Plan

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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby drewcpappas on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:37 pm

FLPensFan wrote:According to Jason Mackey's chat with Rutherford today, the Penguins plan to try Brassard at wing in the top 6. Nothing set in stone that he will definitely be playing there when the season starts or all season, but it is Rutherford/Sullivan's idea to test Brassard at wing in training camp/preseason:

--“That is one option that the coaching staff has talked about,” Rutherford said of Brassard in a top-six role.

--“He’s got the skill level to do it,” Rutherford said of Brassard. “That’s one side of it. The other side of it, he’s never played the wing.

--“When you try something, it doesn’t mean you have to stick with it. You try it. It may work. It may not.”

--“If I had a chance to sign another center who could play wing, I’d do that,” Rutherford said. “It just gives you more depth and more options for the coach.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2018/07/12/Penguins-top-six-wing-Derick-Brassard-Jim-Rutherford/stories/201807120216

If Brassard is going to be a top 6 winger, I'd rather just move him for an actual winger who has played actual wing before. Skinner actually plays all 3 forward positions (though he doesn't play much center anymore).....Charlie Coyle plays more wing now, but he started as a center in the NHL. There are probably several more wing/center guys out there available. If Brassard plays likely looking at something like this:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong/Simon
Brassard-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Sheahan-Kessel
ZAR-Cullen-Rust
xHayes

I'm also starting to think the Simon/Sprong thing too might be the best option. Give Sprong 1st shot, sit him when he goes cold or needs to work on things. A platoon between he and Simon wouldn't be the worst thing.....unless Simon gets really hot and keeps Sprong out longer term.


How happy do you think Kessel will be with Sheahan? I think at least if he is with Brassard he may be ok for the time being.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Jim wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Jim wrote:
longtimefan wrote:So if they stick with what they have, they've got $745K in cap space if Hayes makes the team, $1.395 if they send him down and they only carry 22 players.


Short of injured players, they can only have 22 players on the roster.


The maximum roster size (minus injuries ) is 23.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377


That's what I said...

:slug:


No it's not what you said. You do not have to have an injured player to carry 23. If you have injured players, you can carry more by placing them on IR.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377


23-man Roster
There may be a maximum of 23 players on each Club's playing roster at any one time from the commencement of the NHL regular season through the trade deadline. Prior to the start of the season, each Club must submit to the NHL its "Opening Day Playing Roster" which shall be comprised of not more than 23 players. Each Club must have a roster of at least 20 players, composed of 18 skaters and two goaltenders. Players on Injured Reserve do not count in the 23-man limit.
Last edited by longtimefan on Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve on Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:41 pm

Rowney was versatile in that he could play wing, and fill in at center for an injured player.

Cullen was signed to replace Rowney, and it's a very nice upgrade. Cullen scored 11 goals last year, that's 2X what Rowney has scored in his total NHL career.

I don't believe Cullen was signed to bump Brass out of center, but they can now at least experiment with it. (I think they should just leave him at center IMO but it's not a big deal to try it I guess)
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Steve wrote:Rowney was versatile in that he could play wing, and fill in at center for an injured player.

Cullen was signed to replace Rowney, and it's a very nice upgrade. Cullen scored 11 goals last year, that's 2X what Rowney has scored in his total NHL career.

I don't believe Cullen was signed to bump Brass out of center, but they can now at least experiment with it. (I think they should just leave him at center IMO but it's not a big deal to try it I guess)


I don't think they've got any plans to make Brassard a full time LW. They just want to see if he's versatile enough to do so. Most centers can. Cullen was signed as depth. Where he adds a lot of value, especially for league minimum. He pushes Simon, ZAR, and Sprong for a spot in the lineup. The initial plan seems for him to play LW on the 4th line with Sheahan. Where he can act as the 2nd PK center as well. Plus, both he and Sheahan can move up to wing on a higher line if need be. Sheahan got a lot of time late in the season playing LW in defensive situations with Sid and Geno. Cullen allows you an extra center in those cases. If Brassard can move up, it allows them another top 6 caliber offensive forward when you need it. So he can move up next to Geno. It just gives you more options to strategize.

The other thing Cullen adds is leadership, which still matters. The young guys look up to Sid and Geno, but they can't really aspire to be them. However they all can aspire to be like a 42 year old non-superstar with over twenty years in the league. He was good for the kids in his first go around. If he helps bring Simon, ZAR, and Sprong along, he doesn't even have to play.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby nastystang05 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:21 pm

longtimefan wrote:
Steve wrote:Rowney was versatile in that he could play wing, and fill in at center for an injured player.

Cullen was signed to replace Rowney, and it's a very nice upgrade. Cullen scored 11 goals last year, that's 2X what Rowney has scored in his total NHL career.

I don't believe Cullen was signed to bump Brass out of center, but they can now at least experiment with it. (I think they should just leave him at center IMO but it's not a big deal to try it I guess)


I don't think they've got any plans to make Brassard a full time LW. They just want to see if he's versatile enough to do so. Most centers can. Cullen was signed as depth. Where he adds a lot of value, especially for league minimum. He pushes Simon, ZAR, and Sprong for a spot in the lineup. The initial plan seems for him to play LW on the 4th line with Sheahan. Where he can act as the 2nd PK center as well. Plus, both he and Sheahan can move up to wing on a higher line if need be. Sheahan got a lot of time late in the season playing LW in defensive situations with Sid and Geno. Cullen allows you an extra center in those cases. If Brassard can move up, it allows them another top 6 caliber offensive forward when you need it. So he can move up next to Geno. It just gives you more options to strategize.

The other thing Cullen adds is leadership, which still matters. The young guys look up to Sid and Geno, but they can't really aspire to be them. However they all can aspire to be like a 42 year old non-superstar with over twenty years in the league. He was good for the kids in his first go around. If he helps bring Simon, ZAR, and Sprong along, he doesn't even have to play.

Nice post!!! Well stated and packed with common sense.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pens4Life on Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:40 am

Oleksiak re-signed 2.1M per season.. very solid deal
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby DelPen on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:11 am

Pens4Life wrote:Oleksiak re-signed 2.1M per season.. very solid deal

Almost identical to the deal Cole got 3 years ago. No glaring holes to fill going into camp unless you are really hung up on Rust not playing LW in the top 9 but there is some solid competition that a strong camp from say Blueger could push Simon to WBS and Brassard to top 6 wing and Sheahan 3C.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Jim on Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:32 pm

longtimefan wrote:
Jim wrote:
pens_CT wrote:
Jim wrote:
longtimefan wrote:So if they stick with what they have, they've got $745K in cap space if Hayes makes the team, $1.395 if they send him down and they only carry 22 players.


Short of injured players, they can only have 22 players on the roster.


The maximum roster size (minus injuries ) is 23.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377


That's what I said...

:slug:


No it's not what you said. You do not have to have an injured player to carry 23. If you have injured players, you can carry more by placing them on IR.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377


23-man Roster
There may be a maximum of 23 players on each Club's playing roster at any one time from the commencement of the NHL regular season through the trade deadline. Prior to the start of the season, each Club must submit to the NHL its "Opening Day Playing Roster" which shall be comprised of not more than 23 players. Each Club must have a roster of at least 20 players, composed of 18 skaters and two goaltenders. Players on Injured Reserve do not count in the 23-man limit.


:face:
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:49 pm

Teddy Bleuger will be interesting to follow. There's no way he makes the team out of camp. He's 6th on the depth chart and has options. Plus, they want him to play. On the other hand, he hasn't taken a shift in the NHL yet. You wouldn't think that's a big deal for #6 on the depth chart, but #3, #4, and #5 are all scheduled to be UFA's next summer. JR says he's NHL ready, and he'll no doubt get some time up here. How much though with 5 guys ahead of him? Somehow, they need to evaluate where he can slot in next season. It will dictate other moves as the Pens will again be faced with filling in the blanks behind Sid and Geno.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Steve on Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:52 pm

longtimefan wrote:Teddy Bleuger will be interesting to follow. There's no way he makes the team out of camp. He's 6th on the depth chart and has options. Plus, they want him to play. On the other hand, he hasn't taken a shift in the NHL yet. You wouldn't think that's a big deal for #6 on the depth chart, but #3, #4, and #5 are all scheduled to be UFA's next summer. JR says he's NHL ready, and he'll no doubt get some time up here. How much though with 5 guys ahead of him? Somehow, they need to evaluate where he can slot in next season. It will dictate other moves as the Pens will again be faced with filling in the blanks behind Sid and Geno.


Blueger is playing in "Da Beauty league" this summer in Minnesota - Guentzel is playing also. I'll be in Minnesota then so looking forward to seeing both of them play.

https://www.dabeautyleague.com/player-list
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby sjnhiils on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:41 pm

Steve wrote:
longtimefan wrote:Teddy Bleuger will be interesting to follow. There's no way he makes the team out of camp. He's 6th on the depth chart and has options. Plus, they want him to play. On the other hand, he hasn't taken a shift in the NHL yet. You wouldn't think that's a big deal for #6 on the depth chart, but #3, #4, and #5 are all scheduled to be UFA's next summer. JR says he's NHL ready, and he'll no doubt get some time up here. How much though with 5 guys ahead of him? Somehow, they need to evaluate where he can slot in next season. It will dictate other moves as the Pens will again be faced with filling in the blanks behind Sid and Geno.


Blueger is playing in "Da Beauty league" this summer in Minnesota - Guentzel is playing also. I'll be in Minnesota then so looking forward to seeing both of them play.

https://www.dabeautyleague.com/player-list

Keep an eye on Clayton Phillips (3rd rd 2017) also. He looked really good at prospect camp although the competition will be much tougher here.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby longtimefan on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:51 pm

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/penguin ... y-blueger/

Pens sign Blueger, DePauli, and Prow to tw o way deals
Last edited by longtimefan on Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Pens4Life on Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:16 am

longtimefan wrote:http://pittsburghhockey.net/penguins/uniforms-overview/all-time-uniform-numbers

Pens sign Blueger, DePauli, and Prow to tw o way deals

wrong link buddy
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby lemieuxReturns on Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:30 pm

Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:08 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

Hope all ya want, but I think he's done this summer, and anything additional happens at the deadline.

Better hope/wish would be for this team to work well, and for little to no major pieces need added at the deadline. Maybe a rental defenseman for depth and a veteran depth winger in case of injury.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:44 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

This was a pretty darned good team that gave the eventual cup champion a run for their money that has lost very little in the offseason. How much change did you want?

Unless the bottom drops out, which I find highly unlikely, all we'll see at the deadline is a few tweaks.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:02 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

This was a pretty darned good team that gave the eventual cup champion a run for their money that has lost very little in the offseason. How much change did you want?

Unless the bottom drops out, which I find highly unlikely, all we'll see at the deadline is a few tweaks.


Just because they gave the Caps a run for their money and didn't change doesn't mean other teams didn't improve. Teams are getting younger and faster and the Pens just need to keep up.

I think a full year of Brassard along adding ZAR from the start of the season, Sprong, and Guentzel's improvement ought to be enough at this point. Unless they can find a clear way to improve the team.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby LimerickPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:05 pm

Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

This was a pretty darned good team that gave the eventual cup champion a run for their money that has lost very little in the offseason. How much change did you want?

Unless the bottom drops out, which I find highly unlikely, all we'll see at the deadline is a few tweaks.


Just because they gave the Caps a run for their money and didn't change doesn't mean other teams didn't improve. Teams are getting younger and faster and the Pens just need to keep up.

I think a full year of Brassard along adding ZAR from the start of the season, Sprong, and Guentzel's improvement ought to be enough at this point. Unless they can find a clear way to improve the team.

Teams are still trying to catch up to the Pens. You don't make significant changes to a championship-level team. Younger/Faster is only good if you are getting better. I'll bet you you can fill the team with younger/faster, and you'll end up missing the playoffs, because they are missing the "good" part.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:45 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

This was a pretty darned good team that gave the eventual cup champion a run for their money that has lost very little in the offseason. How much change did you want?

Unless the bottom drops out, which I find highly unlikely, all we'll see at the deadline is a few tweaks.


Just because they gave the Caps a run for their money and didn't change doesn't mean other teams didn't improve. Teams are getting younger and faster and the Pens just need to keep up.

I think a full year of Brassard along adding ZAR from the start of the season, Sprong, and Guentzel's improvement ought to be enough at this point. Unless they can find a clear way to improve the team.

Teams are still trying to catch up to the Pens. You don't make significant changes to a championship-level team. Younger/Faster is only good if you are getting better. I'll bet you you can fill the team with younger/faster, and you'll end up missing the playoffs, because they are missing the "good" part.


Of course getting younger and faster should make the team better, they can certainly do that.

BTW, saying the Pens need to keep up doesn't mean they need to get to the other teams level. It means they need to continue to keep the gap what it has been in recent years. As teams are getting younger and faster, the Pens also need to match them so they don't catch up. I'd say replacing Kuhnhackl and Rowney with ZAR and Sprong accomplishes that for now.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:38 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

Hope all ya want, but I think he's done this summer, and anything additional happens at the deadline.

Better hope/wish would be for this team to work well, and for little to no major pieces need added at the deadline. Maybe a rental defenseman for depth and a veteran depth winger in case of injury.


Yes, let's give up more picks when depth guys like Duclair and DeMelo could have been had for nothing but contracts that cost peanuts.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Daniel on Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:41 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:
lemieuxReturns wrote:Here is hoping that JR makes his moves this summer and leaves the team alone at the deadline this year.

Hope all ya want, but I think he's done this summer, and anything additional happens at the deadline.

Better hope/wish would be for this team to work well, and for little to no major pieces need added at the deadline. Maybe a rental defenseman for depth and a veteran depth winger in case of injury.


Yes, let's give up more picks when depth guys like Duclair and DeMelo could have been had for nothing but contracts that cost peanuts.


I don't necessarily mind giving up draft picks, but I do not want to revisit the Ray Shero era of draft picks for rental depth players. Brassard, Kessel, Schultz, no big deal. Goc, Murray, Winnick are just dime a dozen players the Pens can find at WBS.

If you're trading picks for depth at the trade deadline, I think you wasted the previous summer.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:16 pm

Daniel wrote:If you're trading picks for depth at the trade deadline, I think you wasted the previous summer.


That's how I feel and I fear we are going to be doing it again come this deadline.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby Henry Hank on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:19 pm

It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby thehockeyguru on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:37 pm

Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.
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Re: 2018 Summer Game Plan

Postby FLPensFan on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:55 pm

thehockeyguru wrote:
Henry Hank wrote:It's impossible to predict what needs you're going to have at the deadline. Often times, injuries or unexpected down performances dictate what deadline needs are. You have 23 NHL spots max. There's only so much you can depth proof your lineup going into the season.

Draft picks are the trade deadline currency. You're at a disadvantage relative to the entire rest of the league if you're not willing to spend them to fill needs at the deadline.


When injuries occur it would nice to be able to have young talent in WBS to come up and fill the void. The Pens won two cups with that injection of hungry young players. I'd much rather keep our picks and go that route than a 2 month rental who may not work out.

You are never going to get all the depth you need over the summer. Roster space, cap space, etc prevents that from happening. When you can pickup a 4M player for added depth for only 1M at the deadline.....you don't have that ability in the summer.

As for the youth, yes, you are correct you would like to youth available to come up and fill in the void, however, with a team like Pittsburgh that has a window that is closer to closing than the beginning, you aren't going to have that youth in high level players. The Penguins prefer to go with more aged veterans than counting on guys like Sprong or a Kapanen to develop over several years. So while the Penguins have had youth over the past few years, it isn't high end youth. Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, and Guentzel has been that youth. Rust, Kuhnhackl, and Wilson were/are all best suited for bottom 6 work than top 6 work, and were closer to being out of the organizattion than NHL mainstays.

While trading away the picks isn't great, especially the 1st rounders, the Penguins have done a good job of restocking through trades. Kessel, Brassard, Sheahan, Oleksiak and Cole were all former 1st round picks. While you'd like to see them a little younger, when you are giving up your 1st round picks for guys that have 1st round talent without waiting X years for them to develop, it helps.

You know my stance....I'd rather see the team get a little younger and still be very strong contenders, by making the right types of moves. But I've kind of resigned to the fact that it isn't going to happen while Crosby and Malkin are still elite level players.
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