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Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

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Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:45 am

Pens win 5-1

- Murray was great again, this looks like the cup winning Murray. W's come way easier when your best players play to their ability.
- Love seeing the Pens stick up for themselves, but Pettersson fighting has to stop. Dude will get killed. He needs to read read the Orpik manual on fighting
- ZAR took care of business, but another fight related injury may be a sign its time to stop. Pens will need to find some grit elsewhere :?:
- Horny is "paying the piper" this year BIGtime. Not since Beau "oh no" Bennett has someone battled the injury bug this often.
- Sid's playing so well right now, the engine of the team. His line could of had a few other if they could have buried a few of the chances they should have buried
- PK is looking good out there, but he Powerplay IS like cats (quote from HCMS). They don't seem to care about anything until they strike (including playing D)
- Last night, Rust looked like he belonged with Sid & Jake. Keep the tape of this game, he needs to keep watching and repeating it. Rust never sleeps, he just dekes
- Is it too much to get an Andy Saucier jersey? He is absolute money on the offside review calls going back years now.
- If both guys are injured, I suspect we will see JSD & maybe Willy (serving AHL suspension, so maybe not him). Loved to see someone new or Blue....gar
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:06 am

I think the Murray we're seeing is better than the cup winning Murray.
PK has been looking good - except for the Chicago game. While they technically only gave up one power play, in reality, they gave up three.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:26 am

Live look at Teddy Blueger right now:

Image

ZAR to IR. Garrett "I produce nothing meaningful" Wilson has been recalled. :face: :face: :face: :face: :face: :face:
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:29 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:I think the Murray we're seeing is better than the cup winning Murray.
PK has been looking good - except for the Chicago game. While they technically only gave up one power play, in reality, they gave up three.


I agree regarding Matt Murray - very calm and secure. "It's his net!"
Fingers crossed for winning vibes as they head west.
Last edited by penny lane on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:30 am

FLPensFan wrote:Live look at Teddy Blueger right now:

Image

ZAR to IR. Garrett "I produce nothing meaningful" Wilson has been recalled. :face: :face: :face: :face: :face: :face:


Unreal. It's so hard to be a Sullivan fan.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Defence21 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:11 am

thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Live look at Teddy Blueger right now:

Image

ZAR to IR. Garrett "I produce nothing meaningful" Wilson has been recalled. :face: :face: :face: :face: :face: :face:


Unreal. It's so hard to be a Sullivan fan.

I get that people want to see Bleuger, but man, he's not exactly a high end prospect. Sullivan, meanwhile, has coached this team to two Cups and has this team clicking on all cylinders right now. And, around the league, he's considered among the best, if not the best, coaches in the NHL.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby thehockeyguru on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:19 am

Defence21 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Live look at Teddy Blueger right now:

Image

ZAR to IR. Garrett "I produce nothing meaningful" Wilson has been recalled. :face: :face: :face: :face: :face: :face:


Unreal. It's so hard to be a Sullivan fan.

I get that people want to see Bleuger, but man, he's not exactly a high end prospect. Sullivan, meanwhile, has coached this team to two Cups and has this team clicking on all cylinders right now. And, around the league, he's considered among the best, if not the best, coaches in the NHL.


Bleuger was a 2nd round pick 52nd overall. He leads WBS in goals and points. Why not give him a shot?

This organization doesn't exactly have a sterling reputation for the way its handled their young prospects.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:32 am

Defence21 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Live look at Teddy Blueger right now:

Image

ZAR to IR. Garrett "I produce nothing meaningful" Wilson has been recalled. :face: :face: :face: :face: :face: :face:


Unreal. It's so hard to be a Sullivan fan.

I get that people want to see Bleuger, but man, he's not exactly a high end prospect. Sullivan, meanwhile, has coached this team to two Cups and has this team clicking on all cylinders right now. And, around the league, he's considered among the best, if not the best, coaches in the NHL.

It's not "wanting to see Blueger." He is probably the most NHL ready forward prospect the Penguins have now. Rutherford talked him up repeatedly over the summer., saying he was NHL ready...then when out and signed Cullen and Grant.

I think it was Taylor Haase of DK Sports that had an article a month or so ago on WBS Penguins, and it talked about how Blueger was frustrated. He thinks he's ready, thought he had a good camp. He really thought he was in the same boat as ZAR.....just not enough spots, go to WBS, play well, and your recall will be coming. Instead, he's watched journeyman Wilson and waived and reclaimed Dea get recalls ahead of him.

You have to be willing to give your young guys a chance, otherwise, just trade away all your picks. Seriously. The Penguins have a horrible habit of doing this. Their drafting is poor to begin with, and then their refusal to play these young guys is just mind boggling. "Hey we have this guy Blueger in WBS tearing it up. Nah, lets recall this 27 year old journeyman with a whopping 2 assists in 48 games."

Blueger leads WBS in goals with 16, and points with 29. He's supposedly good on faceoffs, and good defensively. He has no waiver exemption next year. He'll either be on the NHL club next year, or on another team. If I'm Blueger and I don't get a recall this year, I'm asking the Penguins not to qualify me this summer so he can go to another organization. Even if the Penguins sign him......they try to waive him, someone will claim him.

I think Ethan Prow is in a similar, but slightly different boat. He's the best Penguins defenseman in WBS. Signed here as a college UFA. Struggled a bit at first, but he has finally rounded into form, is an AHL all-star this year, but never got a shot at the NHL. Now, his situation is a bit different in that, he doesn't have waiver exemption this year, so he'd likely be claimed if sent back down. But if you are Prow and his agent, you look and see 9 defenseman ahead of you, two of which, Riikola and Pettersson, are young guys the team just went out and got. Prow is an RFA this summer. What incentive does he have to want to try and remain in this organization? Ruhwedel will likely be gone, and he could be the 7th d-man because he is a righty. But are you banking your NHL career on that.

To summarize, the Penguins suck at giving their prospects a chance to prove themselves.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby toby91_ca on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:52 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Defence21 wrote:
thehockeyguru wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:Live look at Teddy Blueger right now:

Image

ZAR to IR. Garrett "I produce nothing meaningful" Wilson has been recalled. :face: :face: :face: :face: :face: :face:


Unreal. It's so hard to be a Sullivan fan.

I get that people want to see Bleuger, but man, he's not exactly a high end prospect. Sullivan, meanwhile, has coached this team to two Cups and has this team clicking on all cylinders right now. And, around the league, he's considered among the best, if not the best, coaches in the NHL.

It's not "wanting to see Blueger." He is probably the most NHL ready forward prospect the Penguins have now. Rutherford talked him up repeatedly over the summer., saying he was NHL ready...then when out and signed Cullen and Grant.

I think it was Taylor Haase of DK Sports that had an article a month or so ago on WBS Penguins, and it talked about how Blueger was frustrated. He thinks he's ready, thought he had a good camp. He really thought he was in the same boat as ZAR.....just not enough spots, go to WBS, play well, and your recall will be coming. Instead, he's watched journeyman Wilson and waived and reclaimed Dea get recalls ahead of him.

You have to be willing to give your young guys a chance, otherwise, just trade away all your picks. Seriously. The Penguins have a horrible habit of doing this. Their drafting is poor to begin with, and then their refusal to play these young guys is just mind boggling. "Hey we have this guy Blueger in WBS tearing it up. Nah, lets recall this 27 year old journeyman with a whopping 2 assists in 48 games."

Blueger leads WBS in goals with 16, and points with 29. He's supposedly good on faceoffs, and good defensively. He has no waiver exemption next year. He'll either be on the NHL club next year, or on another team. If I'm Blueger and I don't get a recall this year, I'm asking the Penguins not to qualify me this summer so he can go to another organization. Even if the Penguins sign him......they try to waive him, someone will claim him.

I think Ethan Prow is in a similar, but slightly different boat. He's the best Penguins defenseman in WBS. Signed here as a college UFA. Struggled a bit at first, but he has finally rounded into form, is an AHL all-star this year, but never got a shot at the NHL. Now, his situation is a bit different in that, he doesn't have waiver exemption this year, so he'd likely be claimed if sent back down. But if you are Prow and his agent, you look and see 9 defenseman ahead of you, two of which, Riikola and Pettersson, are young guys the team just went out and got. Prow is an RFA this summer. What incentive does he have to want to try and remain in this organization? Ruhwedel will likely be gone, and he could be the 7th d-man because he is a righty. But are you banking your NHL career on that.

To summarize, the Penguins suck at giving their prospects a chance to prove themselves.


Recalls often come down to contract situations as well....not sure one-way vs. two-way for all these guys, but that could be telling. I've seen it quite a bit with some friends of mine. That said, the players you mention being recalled ahead of Blueger all have better numbers in the AHL than Blueger, so it's not that crazy to pick them first.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jim on Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:58 am

Bluger has 29 points, its not like he is tearing up the AHL. (Points leader has 42)
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Jim on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:06 pm

toby91_ca wrote:Recalls often come down to contract situations as well....not sure one-way vs. two-way for all these guys, but that could be telling. I've seen it quite a bit with some friends of mine. That said, the players you mention being recalled ahead of Blueger all have better numbers in the AHL than Blueger, so it's not that crazy to pick them first.


One-way and two-way contracts don't come into it. That has no relation to waiver eligibility. It probably has more to do with what role the call-ups will play, or possibility the attitude of the player.

People pissed and whined about Sprong getting 4th line time while not being a 4th line type. People then piss and whine when they call up 4th line types to play 4th line instead of non-4th line types.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby toby91_ca on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:21 pm

Jim wrote:Bluger has 29 points, its not like he is tearing up the AHL. (Points leader has 42)

Exactly, not sure how you can look at 29 pts in 38 games as tearing it up...it places him 6th on the team in terms of points per game.

Difference between league leader at 42pts vs. Blueger at 29pts is big enough, but it's even a larger difference when you consider the league leader has 42pts in 29 games vs. the 38 games Blueger has played for his 29pts. Using the leader's ppg stat, he'd have 55pts. Kind of stupid to do this, but just illustrating the point that Blueger is not tearing is up.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:23 pm

Jim wrote:
toby91_ca wrote:Recalls often come down to contract situations as well....not sure one-way vs. two-way for all these guys, but that could be telling. I've seen it quite a bit with some friends of mine. That said, the players you mention being recalled ahead of Blueger all have better numbers in the AHL than Blueger, so it's not that crazy to pick them first.


One-way and two-way contracts don't come into it. That has no relation to waiver eligibility. It probably has more to do with what role the call-ups will play, or possibility the attitude of the player.

People pissed and whined about Sprong getting 4th line time while not being a 4th line type. People then piss and whine when they call up 4th line types to play 4th line instead of non-4th line types.

No, some people just don't blindly follow the team and think everything they do is awesome, and that Rutherford and Sullivan can do no wrong. But Cups.....they won....they can't make mistakes. :roll:

Where do you think Blueger slots in, Jim? Because, he's a 3rd line at best. That's his role.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby toby91_ca on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:31 pm

Jim wrote:
toby91_ca wrote:Recalls often come down to contract situations as well....not sure one-way vs. two-way for all these guys, but that could be telling. I've seen it quite a bit with some friends of mine. That said, the players you mention being recalled ahead of Blueger all have better numbers in the AHL than Blueger, so it's not that crazy to pick them first.


One-way and two-way contracts don't come into it. That has no relation to waiver eligibility. It probably has more to do with what role the call-ups will play, or possibility the attitude of the player.

People pissed and whined about Sprong getting 4th line time while not being a 4th line type. People then piss and whine when they call up 4th line types to play 4th line instead of non-4th line types.

My reference to one-way vs. two-way was more to do with the one-way contract guy being picked for NHL time over the two-way guy.

But you make a very good point as well, a friend of mine was a pure scorer, made the NHL squad at 19 and 1/3 into that season he got hurt and never really got back as a regular, had a few games here and there. He's lead the NHL in scoring once (during pre-season play) and lead the AHL in scoring a couple years I thing, one an MVP, etc. I used to complain all the time when the NHL team would call up someone else instead of him....but you're right, why would they call up someone like him to play on the 4th line? The other consider here is that you really need to pay attention to the players, not just looking at stats. The biggest difference between AHL and NHL is speed....this includes both speed and skating ability and general speed of play (passing, etc.). Much less time and space in NHL. Certain guys can tear it up in the AHL, but just not be of NHL caliber when it comes to skating. I'll admit to knowing almost nothing about Blueger, so not sure the scouting report on skating.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:43 pm

There's also the thought that Bleuger is a center while Wilson is a winger and the injuries happened to wingers. It could also be that they felt they needed to have some grit for the west coast swing.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:51 pm

toby91_ca wrote:
Jim wrote:
toby91_ca wrote:Recalls often come down to contract situations as well....not sure one-way vs. two-way for all these guys, but that could be telling. I've seen it quite a bit with some friends of mine. That said, the players you mention being recalled ahead of Blueger all have better numbers in the AHL than Blueger, so it's not that crazy to pick them first.


One-way and two-way contracts don't come into it. That has no relation to waiver eligibility. It probably has more to do with what role the call-ups will play, or possibility the attitude of the player.

People pissed and whined about Sprong getting 4th line time while not being a 4th line type. People then piss and whine when they call up 4th line types to play 4th line instead of non-4th line types.

My reference to one-way vs. two-way was more to do with the one-way contract guy being picked for NHL time over the two-way guy.

But you make a very good point as well, a friend of mine was a pure scorer, made the NHL squad at 19 and 1/3 into that season he got hurt and never really got back as a regular, had a few games here and there. He's lead the NHL in scoring once (during pre-season play) and lead the AHL in scoring a couple years I thing, one an MVP, etc. I used to complain all the time when the NHL team would call up someone else instead of him....but you're right, why would they call up someone like him to play on the 4th line? The other consider here is that you really need to pay attention to the players, not just looking at stats. The biggest difference between AHL and NHL is speed....this includes both speed and skating ability and general speed of play (passing, etc.). Much less time and space in NHL. Certain guys can tear it up in the AHL, but just not be of NHL caliber when it comes to skating. I'll admit to knowing almost nothing about Blueger, so not sure the scouting report on skating.

It's not like I'm sitting here saying "I like player X, so I think he should be recalled." Blueger is a bottom 6 player. If he's lucky, he could end up being a decent 3rd line player. There would be no issue with Blueger playing 4th line, because that is likely where he is going to be as an NHL player. It fits his skillset. It would likely be an extreme stretch for him to be a solid top 6 contributor.

This is a guy Rutherford and WBS coach Clark Donatelli have said on several occassions in 2018 have stated is NHL ready, and talked up a bunch. He's a bottom 6 forward. Moreso, he's 24 years old. He's been in the system awhile. At 24, you aren't much of a prospect if you haven't been given a shot. If you have run out of waiver exemption and still haven't played in the NHL, that's a pretty telling sign in your career. Blueger had some early injury issues in his career, but, he has rebounded nicely. This is why it would be good to give the guy a chance, over a 27 year old journeyman to go with the other odd collection of misfits Rutherford brought in, like Cullen and Grant.

Donatelli on Blueger

Trib/Blueger

Item #18
Last edited by FLPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:52 pm

LimerickPensFan wrote:There's also the thought that Bleuger is a center while Wilson is a winger and the injuries happened to wingers. It could also be that they felt they needed to have some grit for the west coast swing.

It's more than likely the grit thing #1, losing ZAR and possibly Hornqvist, and #2, Sully loves Wilson.

At this point, it's like 27 different things have to happen in the exact order for Blueger to actually get recalled AND dress for a game.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:28 pm

Another win, mostly negative nit picking...things must be going good if biggest argument is about calling up Wilson vs Blueger!
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby mayday56 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:32 pm

If something were to happen to Brassard I think we would finally see Blueger
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:36 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:Another win, mostly negative nit picking...things must be going good if biggest argument is about calling up Wilson vs Blueger!

:fist:
All the noise about Blueger is music to my ears. With the injuries to Patric and ZAR, a delicate balance to the team.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:52 pm

mayday56 wrote:If something were to happen to Brassard I think we would finally see Blueger

Or Sid or Geno. Brassard would need to move up to #2.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Southern Fan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:56 pm

Murray with a solid game. A shutout if he isn't bumped on that goal. Covering side to side well, which tells me his injury really messed him up. Rising rapidly toward the league leaders on save percentage. 16th from 44th.

I want Brassard to succeed but he's just an insurance policy if Malkin or Crosby gets hurt. You know Malkin or Crosby get hurt six seconds after they trade Brassard.

Dumoulin and Letang might be one of the best first pairings in the league right now.

Anaheim on an eight game losing streak play Ottawa tonight with an eight game losing streak. If the Ducks lose, we face them with their last win being against the Pens. If so, bet the farm on the Ducks.

Pens may have lost that game last night with DeSmith in goal. Things have changed in 4 weeks.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Puck-Lurker on Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:17 pm

FLPensFan wrote:
LimerickPensFan wrote:There's also the thought that Bleuger is a center while Wilson is a winger and the injuries happened to wingers. It could also be that they felt they needed to have some grit for the west coast swing.

It's more than likely the grit thing #1, losing ZAR and possibly Hornqvist, and #2, Sully loves Wilson.

At this point, it's like 27 different things have to happen in the exact order for Blueger to actually get recalled AND dress for a game.


Heard this song before..

Does Anaheim have any guys we can trade him for?
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby longtimefan on Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:18 pm

There's a lot of right here on both sides. Wilson was called up to skate on the 4th line with Cullen and Sheahan. Regardless of his production, it's what he's suited for. Hornqvist was not put on IR, which means he may not miss any time, or maybe just the weekend games. So Wilson just slots in to that 4th line RW spot. More of a grit game.

On the other side of it, I'm getting a little frustrated we haven't seen Blueger yet. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I didn't know until recently that Blueger has never played wing at WBS. Strictly a center. The problem is, the team got burnt with center depth last season. So they signed a bunch. Criticism of the Cullen signing is unfounded in my opinion. He's pretty much the same player he was his last time here, and is a positive overall. He's on pace for 9 goals and 25 points, and is a key cog on the PK. That's a very reasonable 4th liner. I don't believe Grant has added anything, but it makes more sense to have him sit in the press box rather than Blueger. The issue is all the centers are healthy.

I badly want to see Blueger get an audition. I have a slightly higher opinion of him. I think he could be a competent third line center. I've heard his skating is okay, but not a strength, and Sully mentioned when he was sent down last year that he needed to get stronger. He's seemed to have developed a goal scoring touch over the last season and a half, which gives him a better chance to be a 3rd line center. He's always been known for his faceoffs, and has always been considered a good playmaker. He's had to become more of the scorer since the talent level is down in WBS this season, and he's responding in a big way. It's also possible that they don't really like him, but talk him up in order to deal him. Remember when Oscar Sudqvist was penciled in as the 3rd line center? I don't think that's the case though. How do you get him up here? I'm not gung ho, nor do I think it would be fair to him, on having him play wing for his first time as a professional in his NHL debut.

When I heard about the injuries, I even wondered if maybe Sheahan and Cullen could flank him. That's not necessarily best for the team though. The other factor is you've only got five games in the next twenty days. It's very possible Wilson ends up just sitting in the press box if they opt to play Grant. Which isn't where you want Blueger. Personally, I don't equate calling up Wilson as a slap at Blueger. Why they chose Dea back in early December, I can't answer. I also don't know how Blueger was performing at the time.

This is a big road trip coming up. It's also not conducive to getting a good look at call ups. It's a tough trip, and then they are off a week. Which is the perfect time for the braintrust to set a course for the deadline. At some point, they've got to get Blueger up this season. He can't go into next season with no options and no NHL games. If he doesn't make an appearance, I can only surmise the brass has been blowing smoke. In which case he becomes part of a deal. It may not be easy to do, but they've got to get a look at him.
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Re: Game 43 vs Panthers - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby largegarlic on Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:58 pm

Setting aside the Bleuger/Wilson discussion and offering some thoughts on the game:

--I actually thought Brassard had some jump last night and was more noticeable in a good way, even if there still wasn't any actual production.

--Murray was great, and the PK was great, but I felt like the Pens were outplayed 5v5 (outside of the first couple minutes of the game, which I missed). And I feel like that has happened frequently during this winning stretch--Pens are outshot and/or outplayed, but due to good goaltending and timely scoring, they end up winning. Their overall team Corsi right now is 48.9% and Fenwick is 49.5%. That's not horrible necessarily, but if you look at the teams who are considered real contenders (Tampa, Toronto, Nashville, Vegas, San Jose, maybe Calgary), they're all over 50% in both categories. So, I guess I'm a bit worried that the current state of affairs is a bit of a mirage, and the Pens will revert to the mean a bit.
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