Does he Go?

Forum for Pittsburgh Penguins-related messages.

Moderators: Three Stars, dagny, pfim, netwolf

Re: Does he Go?

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:53 am

We've got to get younger. The Pens have the highest average age for forwards in the NHL. In # of players over 30 in their starting 20, they share the ranks with such stellar teams as the Hawks and Kings.
https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/

That may have worked in 1970, but it is the opposite of where you want to be in 2019. So, does MS need to go? I don't know, would he play the young guys if he was given them? I think he would. He did back when we first won our cups (Sid and the kids anyone?).
RisslingsMissingTeeth
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,320
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby FLPensFan on Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:57 am

:face: No :face: changes :face: on :face: defense. :face: Blueger :face: still :face: scratched. :face:

Nice :face: adjustments. :face:
FLPensFan
NHL Healthy Scratch
NHL Healthy Scratch
 
Posts: 11,757
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: South Florida

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Daniel on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:29 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:We've got to get younger. The Pens have the highest average age for forwards in the NHL. In # of players over 30 in their starting 20, they share the ranks with such stellar teams as the Hawks and Kings.
https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/

That may have worked in 1970, but it is the opposite of where you want to be in 2019. So, does MS need to go? I don't know, would he play the young guys if he was given them? I think he would. He did back when we first won our cups (Sid and the kids anyone?).


Considering it shows Jake Guenztel as the youngest player, I'm not sure how up to date this site is. With the changes this season, the Pens have at least 2 players younger than Jake (McCann/Petterssen).
Daniel
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,908
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Daniel on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:31 am

FLPensFan wrote::face: No :face: changes :face: on :face: defense. :face: Blueger :face: still :face: scratched. :face:

Nice :face: adjustments. :face:


They just need to get to their game...x4 games
Daniel
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,908
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Does he Go?

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:35 am

Daniel wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:We've got to get younger. The Pens have the highest average age for forwards in the NHL. In # of players over 30 in their starting 20, they share the ranks with such stellar teams as the Hawks and Kings.
https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/

That may have worked in 1970, but it is the opposite of where you want to be in 2019. So, does MS need to go? I don't know, would he play the young guys if he was given them? I think he would. He did back when we first won our cups (Sid and the kids anyone?).


Considering it shows Jake Guenztel as the youngest player, I'm not sure how up to date this site is. With the changes this season, the Pens have at least 2 players younger than Jake (McCann/Petterssen).


Touche. Never trust a site that says it is updated daily I guess. At least they got the 7 guys 30-34 and the one older than that right.
RisslingsMissingTeeth
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,320
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Daniel on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:41 am

RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
Daniel wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:We've got to get younger. The Pens have the highest average age for forwards in the NHL. In # of players over 30 in their starting 20, they share the ranks with such stellar teams as the Hawks and Kings.
https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/

That may have worked in 1970, but it is the opposite of where you want to be in 2019. So, does MS need to go? I don't know, would he play the young guys if he was given them? I think he would. He did back when we first won our cups (Sid and the kids anyone?).


Considering it shows Jake Guenztel as the youngest player, I'm not sure how up to date this site is. With the changes this season, the Pens have at least 2 players younger than Jake (McCann/Petterssen).


Touche. Never trust a site that says it is updated daily I guess. At least they got the 7 guys 30-34 and the one older than that right.


I still think it's a concern, but Brassard for Bjugstad and Sheahan for McCann made the team much younger.
Daniel
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,908
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:10 pm
Location: Dallas

Re: Does he Go?

Postby RisslingsMissingTeeth on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:56 am

Daniel wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:
Daniel wrote:
RisslingsMissingTeeth wrote:We've got to get younger. The Pens have the highest average age for forwards in the NHL. In # of players over 30 in their starting 20, they share the ranks with such stellar teams as the Hawks and Kings.
https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/

That may have worked in 1970, but it is the opposite of where you want to be in 2019. So, does MS need to go? I don't know, would he play the young guys if he was given them? I think he would. He did back when we first won our cups (Sid and the kids anyone?).


Considering it shows Jake Guenztel as the youngest player, I'm not sure how up to date this site is. With the changes this season, the Pens have at least 2 players younger than Jake (McCann/Petterssen).


Touche. Never trust a site that says it is updated daily I guess. At least they got the 7 guys 30-34 and the one older than that right.


I still think it's a concern, but Brassard for Bjugstad and Sheahan for McCann made the team much younger.


Circling back on my main point, Sully has given Bjugy and McCann significant roles. This is tough for a coach right? The GM does the contracts and gives some players some big figures. The coach then does what? Benches them? Not very often unless your name is Torts. What I never liked about DB and struggle with Sully about is what I call the "inconsistent hammer". A young guy does anything even remotely wrong and they see the bench. The older guys with bigger contracts are given endless chances to make mistakes and provide little effort and nothing happens. But, is that ordered from above? I think so.
RisslingsMissingTeeth
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,320
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby LimerickPensFan on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:24 am

FLPensFan wrote::face: No :face: changes :face: on :face: defense. :face: Blueger :face: still :face: scratched. :face:

Nice :face: adjustments. :face:

From DK's report on the morning skate, McCann skating with Sid and Jake. Jake on PP1, with Horny being moved down to PP2.

McCann-Crosby-Guentzel
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Simon-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
ZAR-Cullen-Wilson
Dumoulin-Letang
Johnson-Schultz
Pettersson-Gudbranson
LimerickPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Unfortunately, Philadelphia suburbs

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Pitts on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:26 am

LimerickPensFan wrote:
FLPensFan wrote::face: No :face: changes :face: on :face: defense. :face: Blueger :face: still :face: scratched. :face:

Nice :face: adjustments. :face:

From DK's report on the morning skate, McCann skating with Sid and Jake. Jake on PP1, with Horny being moved down to PP2.

McCann-Crosby-Guentzel
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Simon-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
ZAR-Cullen-Wilson
Dumoulin-Letang
Johnson-Schultz
Pettersson-Gudbranson

Those lines are the lines that were playing winning hockey at the end of the season (minus Blueger for AR). For some reason, Sully mixed them all up to start the playoffs. Hopefully, this sparks some success.
Pitts
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 21,992
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Working ....

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Penguins Knight on Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:56 pm

Mike Sullivan will return for the 2019-2020 season. Members of his coaching staff are not guaranteed to return. Some members should not be coaching. Better coaches who can coach players to win now in order to win later are available.
Penguins Knight
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:57 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Does he Go?

Postby FallenHero96 on Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:48 pm

Dan Kingerski
‏ @TheDanKingerski

If you’re still up, I’ve got an amazing Evgeni Malkin story.

Listening back to his quotes, jab after jab.

“We need to understand...We’re not champions anymore,”

“Maybe their system is a little bit better,”

And more...
FallenHero96
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 3,112
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:39 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Inkio on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:33 am

FallenHero96 wrote:Dan Kingerski
‏ @TheDanKingerski

If you’re still up, I’ve got an amazing Evgeni Malkin story.

Listening back to his quotes, jab after jab.

“We need to understand...We’re not champions anymore,”

“Maybe their system is a little bit better,”

And more...


https://www.google.com/amp/s/pittsburgh ... ymore/amp/

I hate when people pull 1 or 2 lines from a whole paragraph so it sounds way worse and out of context. We all know Malkin isn’t great with English. If you read the full quotes it does not sound as bad as just pulling one sentence from them.
Inkio
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,072
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:39 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Badger Bob on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:04 am

IMO, losing Rick Tocchet as an assistant has had a huge impact on this team. Maybe it's coincidence, but ever since he's left this team, they have lost their mojo and heart. He could always play bad cop to Sully's good cop when a player needed their arse kicked. He also had that bond with Kessel that seemed to bring out the best of Phil on the ice. The team doesn't seem to react to Sully's direction like they did a couple seasons ago and I think Tocchet may have something to do with that. Recchi just doesn't bring the same type of brass balls personality to the table. Maybe Jay Caufield might want to put down the telestrator pen and give assistant coaching a try?
Badger Bob
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 627
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:21 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Lesky on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:22 am

Rutherford and Sullivan needs to be go both of them, Sullivan time has expired anyway, from what we seen from this team in the past. Owned by Trotz for 3 years straight, including the Nashville final series in which the Pens lucked out.

Rutherford won the cup with a speed game then signed Maatta to a lifetime contract and brought in Johnson, Gudbransson, Pettersson, Oleksiak all which have limited skating ability. Top that up with Hornqvists horrible contract + the Cullen signing and you have no idea what Rutherford was thinking. The old man needs to retire immediately.

One more thing, what most Pens fans have not realized yet is that Bjugstad will become an issue as well, just wait until next season and you wont be happy with the term he has left.

Ruhwedel would do just as well as half of our defensman playing for peanuts, thats all on Rutherford.

Jack Johnson needs to be gone, regardless if its a buy-out, retain salary trade etc. If I had season tickets I would cancel them if Johnson was still here when training camp starts, his contract is an insult towards everyone spending money to support to team and Rutherford should own up to his big mistake.
Lesky
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 2,985
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:56 am
Location: Iceoplex

Re: Does he Go?

Postby largegarlic on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:47 am

After watching the game in the arena last night, I'm leaning towards canning Sullivan. I don't know if it was the desperate line juggling, trying to find some combos that worked, but it just seemed like nobody had any idea where to be on the ice, and puck support was almost non-existent. Guys would get the puck, look up, not see anyone anywhere near them to make a quick, simple pass, and then just end up dumping the puck in or trying for a stretch pass to someone standing still at the red line. Either Sullivan had no idea what to do, or the players weren't listening to him. Either option points towards him going.

A related issue is that I have no idea what style this roster is constructed to play. As I mentioned above, the Pens seemed more willing to dump and chase last night, which might have been the right response to how the Isles were playing, but they just don't have the players to play that way. The 4th line had a couple shifts were they came in hard on the forecheck and created turnovers, but other than that, the Pens just can't play that way. But they can no longer play a game based on speed and skill either, and they clearly aren't structured to be a disciplined defensive team that clogs things up and then hits on the counter. So, I'm not sure that Rutherford should be safe either, or at least, as others have said, he's not on the same page as Sullivan, which again implies that Sullivan needs to go.
largegarlic
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 2,247
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby IntangibleBeer on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:37 am

Badger Bob wrote:IMO, losing Rick Tocchet as an assistant has had a huge impact on this team. Maybe it's coincidence, but ever since he's left this team, they have lost their mojo and heart. He could always play bad cop to Sully's good cop when a player needed their arse kicked. He also had that bond with Kessel that seemed to bring out the best of Phil on the ice. The team doesn't seem to react to Sully's direction like they did a couple seasons ago and I think Tocchet may have something to do with that. Recchi just doesn't bring the same type of brass balls personality to the table. Maybe Jay Caufield might want to put down the telestrator pen and give assistant coaching a try?


This! :thumb:

Recchi is a FOM (Friend of Mario) and is just not cutting it. Sullivan needs a counterpart like Tocchet or he needs to go. JJ, Maatta, Cullen - see ya.
IntangibleBeer
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 1,461
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 9:17 am
Location: Cranberry Township, PA

Re: Does he Go?

Postby no name on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:51 am

Lesky wrote:Rutherford and Sullivan needs to be go both of them, Sullivan time has expired anyway, from what we seen from this team in the past. Owned by Trotz for 3 years straight, including the Nashville final series in which the Pens lucked out.

Rutherford won the cup with a speed game then signed Maatta to a lifetime contract and brought in Johnson, Gudbransson, Pettersson, Oleksiak all which have limited skating ability. Top that up with Hornqvists horrible contract + the Cullen signing and you have no idea what Rutherford was thinking. The old man needs to retire immediately.

One more thing, what most Pens fans have not realized yet is that Bjugstad will become an issue as well, just wait until next season and you wont be happy with the term he has left.

Ruhwedel would do just as well as half of our defensman playing for peanuts, thats all on Rutherford.

Jack Johnson needs to be gone, regardless if its a buy-out, retain salary trade etc. If I had season tickets I would cancel them if Johnson was still here when training camp starts, his contract is an insult towards everyone spending money to support to team and Rutherford should own up to his big mistake.


Ahhh.... Trotz coached the caps from 2014-2017, we beat him and the caps in those series, in 16 and 17. Trotz didn't coach the Preds in those seasons. No matter who we beat in the Nashville series I don't see how we lucked out. The no goal call was just one goal but we out played them that series.

Your other points in your post I agree with most of it. But I don't see a need to remove both. The team is competitive and playing close to their potential.
no name
AHL Hall of Famer
AHL Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 8,104
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:19 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Jim on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:59 am

Jack Johnson's contract is 4% of the cap. Insult level = EPIC! Big, HUGE, mistake. Great reason to cancel your tickets... the 4% cap anchor!
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,388
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Maestro on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:31 pm

Sully will get another year but shouldn't. But all Cup winners get a longer leash. His hubris is amazing to me - and as long as he is the coach expecting things to change seems foolish.

Image
Maestro
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,015
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:05 pm

Re: Does he Go?

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:42 pm

No way Sully goes. Nope!

I really liked listening to Sully answer questions after the elimination game. Someone asked about the Islanders team and if that was the way to build teams to win. His response was great. He basically said that the Islanders play a defensive game. That they play it well. But that the Penguins are not built to win games that way. BUT that the Penguins have had success without needed to play that way. I liked that answer. The quick thought is to start dumping guys like Geno, Phil and Sid for more defensive buy-in guys. UGH! We had teams like that in past years and we didn't win, and it was horrible to watch. I do NOT want the Penguins to try and emulate the Islanders or the Devils or whoever else plays that way. We are so lucky to have the superstars we do. I like seeing them play and create and mesmerize. We are not going to win every year. But I am not on board with dumping the coach or dumping Phil or Geno or Sid or whoever to get a team full of Tom Mooseknuckles.

Here is the problem. We are a team not built on defense buy-in style however old man Rutherford has tried his hardest over the past 2 summers to spend as much money as possible on defense.... at the expense of helping enhance our offensive first mentality. If Sully sees and we all see our team as the team it is... a creative style of play why on earth would you start killing it (it was working and we were winning cups) by signing a bunch of overpriced defense.

Anyways, Sully knows what kind of team we have. He has embraced it. Now its time for the GM to reverse his 2 year course and start embracing it too.
lemieuxReturns
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,185
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Does he Go?

Postby lemieuxReturns on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Jim wrote:Jack Johnson's contract is 4% of the cap. Insult level = EPIC! Big, HUGE, mistake. Great reason to cancel your tickets... the 4% cap anchor!


4% more than it should be. Ever hear of 'stacking pennies' or 'death by a million cuts'. Our defense overall is paid way too much for way too little. If I told a hockey fan that we had the highest or second highest paid defensive group they would probably be surprised. Why? Because we are not a defensive team. We are not built for defense and our defense certainly is not good at playing it. Why on earth we are spending the money we are on defense is absurd. Go back and take a look at the defense as a percentage of cap for the years we won the cup. Now look at the past two seasons. There is a correlation.
lemieuxReturns
AHL All-Star
AHL All-Star
 
Posts: 6,185
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:00 am

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Jim on Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:03 pm

lemieuxReturns wrote:
Jim wrote:Jack Johnson's contract is 4% of the cap. Insult level = EPIC! Big, HUGE, mistake. Great reason to cancel your tickets... the 4% cap anchor!


4% more than it should be. Ever hear of 'stacking pennies' or 'death by a million cuts'. Our defense overall is paid way too much for way too little. If I told a hockey fan that we had the highest or second highest paid defensive group they would probably be surprised. Why? Because we are not a defensive team. We are not built for defense and our defense certainly is not good at playing it. Why on earth we are spending the money we are on defense is absurd. Go back and take a look at the defense as a percentage of cap for the years we won the cup. Now look at the past two seasons. There is a correlation.


That's not Jack Johnson's fault. Nor does it support the concept of cancelling tickets because Johnson is still on the team. Much like with everything around her, I was ahead of the group and was commenting about the % of overall cap going to the D being too high 2 years ago. Everyone just laughed it off. Welcome to the party, the cheese has gone bad though.

Another thing that I was ahead of the curve on was pointing a finger squarely at the fearless leader Sullivan. I got, "He won two Cups, knows more than you" and now just one season later suddenly everyone is like "Hey maybe its the coach...?" :pop:

By the way, your million cuts isn't Johnson's $3.25. It is more like Letang's million screw-ups every game.
Jim
NHL Fourth Liner
NHL Fourth Liner
 
Posts: 17,388
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Does he Go?

Postby LimerickPensFan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:47 pm

Funny, everyone is all over Jack Johnson, yet the names I heard regarding foul-ups were Letang and Dumoulin.

Three more years with Jack Johnson as a whipping boy.
LimerickPensFan
ECHL'er
ECHL'er
 
Posts: 720
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 10:04 am
Location: Unfortunately, Philadelphia suburbs

Re: Does he Go?

Postby Southern Fan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:36 pm

Letang just doesn’t seem to be aware of situations. He is an offensive talent, but it drives me nuts when he is on a pinch at the end of a 40 second shift where the forwards are changing and no one is covering for him.

In other gripes, Finesse passes just inside the blue line killed us all year. Loss of zone time, odd man rushes, shir5 handed goals.

These things should be fixable by a coaching staff. My inclination would be to can Recchi. He rubbed me the wrong way as a player mentoring Crosby and as a coach of younger players. Pretty sure the older guys tune him out and the younger guys are most likely uncomfortable.

The teams talent won them games. Didn’t see much of an offensive structure all year.
Southern Fan
AHL'er
AHL'er
 
Posts: 4,156
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:51 am

Re: Does he Go?

Postby theblackarts on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:54 pm

Sully is #95 on this teams list of issues
theblackarts
Junior 'A'
Junior 'A'
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:11 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Pittsburgh Penguins

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ericf, FLPensFan, sjnhiils and 19 guests


e-mail