SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

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SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:35 am

Pens lose 3-1

- So disappointed in how the team performed. They were off their game and could not get back on. Not going to let myself get sucked into the drama, take some time to let this settle in
- Isles deserve a ton of credit. They played a very good system that was not cracked. Their role players really played their roles well, and their keeper Lehner won them a couple games
- Younger Pens were overwhelmed & the older guys were off, couldn`t execute or take simple passes. Isles CCM line had the Pens playing skittish, too many missed passes, hits avoided
- Playoffs are a different animal than the regular season. Its a battle as the refs don`t... well you know. Too many Pens guys were soff as former HCMT used to say
- Eberle was clutch. His shots were perfect and he's hotter than hot right now... didn't see him get plastered once, not even close. But Sid, Malkin, Letang..... all on their wallet this series
- Pens didn`t show enough emotion..... There even keel nature made it seem like they didn`t want it
- Pens were in these games, they were close but the Isles just smother them
- Injuries played a part, looking forward to hearing about those as it does add some reason to the sub par performance (no excuse, but some reason)
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Weegie on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:14 am

As we saw for the last how many months the Pens were just "off" more than on this season, no one could really put their finger on exactly what the issue was but it carried into the playoffs and while they showed very brief moments of their old selves they quickly disappeared, they couldn't hold a lead, couldn't mount a big comeback, just looked like whatever magic and chemistry they had in years past is gone forever, very disheartening to have to watch but you knew the good times couldn't carry on forever, maybe this is the wakeup call for them to ask themselves "what really went wrong?", "do I still want to play this game, do I want another Cup badly enough or should I pack it in?"....

Hey, they won the Cup 3 times in the last 10 years, that is GREAT!!!! Maybe the guys who did that are satisfied with that, maybe they have become complacent, maybe some of them are nearing the end of the road and should call it a career, or go to another team and see if the spark comes back, or try to regain that inner fire and stay here and play like you used to play, they were in it last night and if Letang wouldn't have pinched on that first goal they might still be playing in overtime....

3 Cups in 10 years, not too shabby, not at all......look at the BIG picture not the horror show we just saw lol!!!
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby pcmforless on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 am

Bummed, but had seen all year the team was off just a bit. Even when they were winning they weren't dominant. I too worry about the "contentness" if that is a word of so many of the players with what they have accomplished. A lot of the core has family lives now as well and important things in their lives besides hockey. The hunger just doesn't seem to be there. There are some bright spots added this year like McCann and Pettersen, and Jake proved he isn't just a great post season player or flash in the pan.
It was the right decision at the time, but unfortunately I think they let the wrong goalie go. Fleury does still have that drive to win and perhaps it got reignited going to an expansion team and becoming the leader, that may not have happened in Pittsburgh.
It is time for Maatta to go if possible, sadly I think it may be time for Phil to go, and if you get get a good amount for him I think I would let Geno go at this time as well. The league the last few years has shown you can draft some young fast guys, add in some mid level affordable players and be competitive.
They were in this series and Lehner was really difference if you had to pick one player that made the difference. Throwing out the empty net goals and game 3's mid 3rd period goal they were all one goal games and a bounce one way or another and this could/should be a 2-2 series, but they still would be struggling in the series. Once again they proved they cannot win games where they get frustrated. They can win big games, they can win as an underdog, but they can't win frustrating games.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:54 am

Weegie wrote:As we saw for the last how many months the Pens were just "off" more than on this season, no one could really put their finger on exactly what the issue was but it carried into the playoffs and while they showed very brief moments of their old selves they quickly disappeared, they couldn't hold a lead, couldn't mount a big comeback, just looked like whatever magic and chemistry they had in years past is gone forever, very disheartening to have to watch but you knew the good times couldn't carry on forever, maybe this is the wakeup call for them to ask themselves "what really went wrong?", "do I still want to play this game, do I want another Cup badly enough or should I pack it in?"....

Hey, they won the Cup 3 times in the last 10 years, that is GREAT!!!! Maybe the guys who did that are satisfied with that, maybe they have become complacent, maybe some of them are nearing the end of the road and should call it a career, or go to another team and see if the spark comes back, or try to regain that inner fire and stay here and play like you used to play, they were in it last night and if Letang wouldn't have pinched on that first goal they might still be playing in overtime....

3 Cups in 10 years, not too shabby, not at all......look at the BIG picture not the horror show we just saw lol!!!

This isn't directly at you, but, you were the first to say it so.....

I hate the "Hey they won 3 Cups. Hey, be appreciative of what you have gotten with this team." type arguments. I am appreciative of all of that I have seen, from Lemieux to Jagr to Crosby to Malkin to Fleury, and a bunch of other guys along the way (Straka, Kovy, Ulf, Francis, Coffey, etc, etc). The we won 3, don't be a hater and appreciate what we have already accomplished remarks are something I think are things you say when you are missing the playoffs and in a rebuild mode vying for top 10 draft picks, not things to say when you have a cap max team filled with starts that literally looked like they wanted to be doing something other than hockey more than 50% of their games this season.

I did not expect this team to win the Cup this year. I've said most of the season I would be surprised, based on what I have seen all season long, if they even made it past the 2nd round. They were much worse than my expectations. Not only losing in the first round, but getting swept in 4 games and looking again like they'd rather be off doing something else. The hustle and effort were lacking. The ability to execute many nights, and the entire playoffs, was lacking. When you are an Ottawa, a Buffalo, etc type team, trying to get back into relevance, that's acceptable. Totally unacceptable for this team.

I was reading some of Jessie's tweets over the last 24 hours. He's pretty good at picking up the system type stuff, and he made several comments this morning that, contrary to what many are saying, Mike Sullivan did in fact make multiple adjustments throughout the series.....but the Penguins players as a whole executed those adjustments for 10-15 minutes before abandoning them and going back to their old ways.

This is on the players. I like Crosby and Malkin and Letang and Murray and Hornqvist and the Phil......but, if these guys in their 30's aren't able to put forth the effort needed in the playoffs, I really don't care if Phil had his best 5v5 season in the regular season if he coasts through the playoffs. Look at Tampa. Stamkos had 98 points on the season, had 1 goal and 1 assist against CBJ. Kucherov had what, 128 points.....2 assists. Brayden Point, 92 points....1 goal. All of those guys are a bit younger than our core, but, it's the same argument.....if these guys break all kinds of point total records in the regular season, but can't do squat in the playoffs, does it really matter? You can be the greatest 82 game regular season player in the league.....if you can't produce in the playoffs, how valuable are you?

The Penguins have several players who coaches and management fall in love with that may do one thing well, but aren't very good at several other things.
---Dom Simon, King Corsi. Brings up the Corsi of everyone he plays with. Decent job of creating space and distributing the puck. Not very good defensively or offensively overall, however.
---Phil, used to have speed. This season, didn't seem to have that same burst. He wasn't beating defenders
---Wilson. Throws a good check. Cycles well. Broke an incredibly long goalless drought. Provides nothing offensively.
---ZAR. Seemed to take a step backwards this season. Injuries a problem. Can play anywhere in the lineup, sometimes is effective, other times just there.
---Johnson. But he like, hits and is big and is Sid's bestie. And a 20,000 ton lead anchor to every defenseman he plays with. With years of data to prove it.

No team is going to dress 12 forwards that do every thing perfectly. But the Penguins often had too many guys dressed that the coaches loved one small item, and when 3-5 guys all dressed aren't performing that one small item in that game.....they aren't doing much at all.

Go out and get one or two more young, fast players who can score and play well defensively. The Penguins had 4 players who had 70 or more points (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Guentzel). You know how many the Islanders had? ZERO. Columbus had 2. I'd rather a collective of players that can play well at both ends, and be 25 goal, 50-60 point capable then being top heavy.

I'll stop now cuz I am shooting off into tangents left and right. But this team needs a set direction/system/identity for next season, and, make the moves it needs and is able to bring in players that fit the system they want.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Daniel on Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:59 am

FLPensFan wrote:I was reading some of Jessie's tweets over the last 24 hours. He's pretty good at picking up the system type stuff, and he made several comments this morning that, contrary to what many are saying, Mike Sullivan did in fact make multiple adjustments throughout the series.....but the Penguins players as a whole executed those adjustments for 10-15 minutes before abandoning them and going back to their old ways.

This is on the players.


When you make adjustments, then don't practice, how can this be on the players? Players will go back to what they know.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby FLPensFan on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:36 am

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I was reading some of Jessie's tweets over the last 24 hours. He's pretty good at picking up the system type stuff, and he made several comments this morning that, contrary to what many are saying, Mike Sullivan did in fact make multiple adjustments throughout the series.....but the Penguins players as a whole executed those adjustments for 10-15 minutes before abandoning them and going back to their old ways.

This is on the players.


When you make adjustments, then don't practice, how can this be on the players? Players will go back to what they know.

Adjustments are usually small. It might be, instead of waiting on X boards during the breakout, the F2 is going to cut across the center with speed to start the transition. Is it helpful to have a practice, sure. But it shouldn't be necessary. Otherwise, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to ever counter anything.

You look at guys like McCann and Bjugstad when they got traded here. They don't get the luxury of the practice when they come in. They learn some basics via coaches, maybe watch some video, etc. They are still able to do their jobs and play. They don't sit in the press box until they can get practices in.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Daniel on Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:53 am

FLPensFan wrote:
Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I was reading some of Jessie's tweets over the last 24 hours. He's pretty good at picking up the system type stuff, and he made several comments this morning that, contrary to what many are saying, Mike Sullivan did in fact make multiple adjustments throughout the series.....but the Penguins players as a whole executed those adjustments for 10-15 minutes before abandoning them and going back to their old ways.

This is on the players.


When you make adjustments, then don't practice, how can this be on the players? Players will go back to what they know.

Adjustments are usually small. It might be, instead of waiting on X boards during the breakout, the F2 is going to cut across the center with speed to start the transition. Is it helpful to have a practice, sure. But it shouldn't be necessary. Otherwise, it would be extremely difficult for anyone to ever counter anything.

You look at guys like McCann and Bjugstad when they got traded here. They don't get the luxury of the practice when they come in. They learn some basics via coaches, maybe watch some video, etc. They are still able to do their jobs and play. They don't sit in the press box until they can get practices in.


McCann and Bjugstad not knowing the system helped in my opinion. They couldn't revert back to old habits that they did for years and years. The system (and team frankly) is stagnant on so many levels. Look at the "unpredictable" power play, which is predictable as heck to anyone who watches tv let alone studying it. When was the last time it was changed?

I don't think the players are the problem, I think the system is the problem. Not to say a new system won't require player changes, but the entire franchise is stagnant. WBS didn't even make the playoffs this year, and did in the past with a roster worse than the one they had this year. They play the same stagnant system as the NHL club.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:14 pm

After some time, I have to look at TB and Pitt and how they were beaten.

They were beaten by less skilled teams - CHECK
They were beaten by bigger nastier teams - CHECK
They were beaten by hot goalies - CHECK

I like FLPens fan point that many other superstars on TB were also shut down.

As Sid said, its about mistakes AND the other team capitalizing, which the Isles certainly did.

A couple things to point out. Eberle's goals in this series were unstoppable, dude was smoking hot and as much as you can be in the Conn Smythe voting at this point.... he's in.

Isles old school get your licks in mentality paid off. Pens were not making plays and avoiding hits by game 4.

Pens had more Give aways than any other team in the playofffs. This was due to the structure the Isles put in place was the killer.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby pens_CT on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:35 pm

Penspal wrote:After some time, I have to look at TB and Pitt and how they were beaten.

They were beaten by less skilled teams - CHECK
They were beaten by bigger nastier teams - CHECK
They were beaten by hot goalies - CHECK

I like FLPens fan point that many other superstars on TB were also shut down.

As Sid said, its about mistakes AND the other team capitalizing, which the Isles certainly did.

A couple things to point out. Eberle's goals in this series were unstoppable, dude was smoking hot and as much as you can be in the Conn Smythe voting at this point.... he's in.

Isles old school get your licks in mentality paid off. Pens were not making plays and avoiding hits by game 4.

Pens had more Give aways than any other team in the playofffs. This was due to the structure the Isles put in place was the killer.


Speaking of Eberle the guy had zero playoff goals in thirteen previous playoff games and the Pens made him look like the 2nd coming of Jari Kurri. Somebody needed to hit the guy and at least make him look over his shoulder at least once. Of course that would have required this team to be invested in the playoffs which is something there never were, which is a direct carryover from the regular season.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Daniel on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:03 pm

pens_CT wrote:
Penspal wrote:After some time, I have to look at TB and Pitt and how they were beaten.

They were beaten by less skilled teams - CHECK
They were beaten by bigger nastier teams - CHECK
They were beaten by hot goalies - CHECK

I like FLPens fan point that many other superstars on TB were also shut down.

As Sid said, its about mistakes AND the other team capitalizing, which the Isles certainly did.

A couple things to point out. Eberle's goals in this series were unstoppable, dude was smoking hot and as much as you can be in the Conn Smythe voting at this point.... he's in.

Isles old school get your licks in mentality paid off. Pens were not making plays and avoiding hits by game 4.

Pens had more Give aways than any other team in the playofffs. This was due to the structure the Isles put in place was the killer.


Speaking of Eberle the guy had zero playoff goals in thirteen previous playoff games and the Pens made him look like the 2nd coming of Jari Kurri. Somebody needed to hit the guy and at least make him look over his shoulder at least once. Of course that would have required this team to be invested in the playoffs which is something there never were, which is a direct carryover from the regular season.


As experienced as this team is and as boring the regular seasons tend to be, they were just waiting for the 2nd round to get to their game. It would have worked out. :fist:
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Badger Bob on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:23 pm

There may have been a better result if they had played the Caps in the first round. The Islanders ended up being a terrible matchup for them. At least they probably would have got their juices flowing in a Caps series.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Hatrick on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:29 pm

I said before the playoffs began, the isles would be a tough matchup due to the style they play(only team I would have wanted to play less was the caps tbh). Especially on the road. That's why unlike other people I thought it was important to try to win the division or at the very least get home ice in the first round. They did neither of those things. Of course nobody could have predicted a sweep, I thought it was going 7.

The most disappointing part was that we HAD the lead in the last three games. But we held it for a combined 5 minutes. I was actually encouraged in game one even though we lost because we were able to keep coming back since the theory coming in was the islanders were shutdown when ahead but would have trouble coming from behind. So if we could fight back against their strength we should have had a good chance.

Turns out we would get that lead in games 2, 3, and 4. We gave it up almost immediately each and every time. That was the most frustrating thing.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:33 pm

Pens were treading water going into the play offs. They rushed Dumoulin back to the ice. They did not take isles seriously. I can't be disappointed, never felt they had a skate in the series. I need to heard all about the injuries...including rib area of Evgeni and Letang's.

Last evening I read the Tampa Bay statement after their game. Totally over the top of a response.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Cow_Master66 on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:18 pm

I would approach this offseason the same as I would every offseason. Everyone should be available, and all options should be considered to determine if it makes the team better. No need to get into any arguments about untouchables, because nobody should be untouchable, and I'll leave it at that.

This series was brutal to watch from start to finish, and the biggest problem I personally have with it is the lack of physicality. Horny mixing it up w/ the goalie last night was the first (and last) sign I saw of anyone trying to rattle the opponent. I don't personally care about the shenanigans at the end of game 2, because it was when the game was over. I'm not usually one to point to lack of fire, but I do think the fact this team went through 4 games and didn't try to change the tone of the game with physicality says a lot about this group. For a team in a win-now mode, I'm not personally sure how you change that, and I'm not sure there's a blueprint to follow outside of infusing young blood. To me, that approach is a bit of a crap shoot. I also don't think they will go that route. Sure, I expect them to bring in some new guys, and I do expect them to move on from some old friends (Phil and Oli will probably top the list), but chances are next season will be more of the same. It would be a tough sell internally, but in reality, I think that approach needs to be pursued from a 2-4 year perspective. How do you sell to the Captain that we are going to "rebuild" a team around you that we think could be a legit contender in 2023? That's a really tough sell to anyone, much less someone as competitive as the Captain.

On the positive side of things, we have the top end assets to bring an influx of young talent in. On the negative side, I don't think we will take that approach so I expect next year will be similar to this one with a few new faces, but same results....I hope I'm wrong, and I hope those smarter than me can figure it out!
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Daniel on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:24 pm

Cow_Master66 wrote:I would approach this offseason the same as I would every offseason. Everyone should be available, and all options should be considered to determine if it makes the team better. No need to get into any arguments about untouchables, because nobody should be untouchable, and I'll leave it at that.

This series was brutal to watch from start to finish, and the biggest problem I personally have with it is the lack of physicality. Horny mixing it up w/ the goalie last night was the first (and last) sign I saw of anyone trying to rattle the opponent. I don't personally care about the shenanigans at the end of game 2, because it was when the game was over. I'm not usually one to point to lack of fire, but I do think the fact this team went through 4 games and didn't try to change the tone of the game with physicality says a lot about this group. For a team in a win-now mode, I'm not personally sure how you change that, and I'm not sure there's a blueprint to follow outside of infusing young blood. To me, that approach is a bit of a crap shoot. I also don't think they will go that route. Sure, I expect them to bring in some new guys, and I do expect them to move on from some old friends (Phil and Oli will probably top the list), but chances are next season will be more of the same. It would be a tough sell internally, but in reality, I think that approach needs to be pursued from a 2-4 year perspective. How do you sell to the Captain that we are going to "rebuild" a team around you that we think could be a legit contender in 2023? That's a really tough sell to anyone, much less someone as competitive as the Captain.

On the positive side of things, we have the top end assets to bring an influx of young talent in. On the negative side, I don't think we will take that approach so I expect next year will be similar to this one with a few new faces, but same results....I hope I'm wrong, and I hope those smarter than me can figure it out!


The issue is, do they go with Sullivan's speed approach with fancy plays and skill, or JRs gritty more physical approach that cycles better? Until they sort out what kind of style they want, getting players is irrelevant. Since the Reaves trade, there seems to be a disconnect.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby maopens on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:33 pm

Very disappointed. Not so much with this series as it doesn't come as a surprise that the Pens didn't advance. Surprised they were swept but didn't have a good feeling about this entire season. They just didn't look the same. Was it a collective bad luck season? Perhaps, but I don't really buy that.

As much as I hate to say it, I think we are watching individuals decline and therefore, the collective decline. We have a lot of key pieces who are now 32 or older. No hockey players are in their prime at 32 and it's extremely rare for a 33 year old version to be better than the 32 year old version of the same player. Kessel, Letang, Hornqvist and even Malkin. Did any of those guys have a great season? No. Did any of them have even a good season by their standards? Not to me they didn't.

Malkin seems increasingly frustrated out there and is taking a lot of frustration penalties. Is there something going on with him or is he showing frustration that he recognizes he isn't able to do what once came so easy to him?

Letang was always a great tied to a questionable brain. His decision making has never been great but his pure athletic ability and speed allowed him to cover up for some of those mistakes. He is a turnover machine and he is going to be losing some of that speed soon if he hasn't already.

Kessel, basically the same as Letang. Lots of sloppy turnovers with the puck this year and I didn't see the same burst of speed as he showed in years past.

I love these guys. They brought us 2 more Stanley Cups. But Their games are not going to hold up well into their mid 30's as speed is going to slip and their games are largely built upon speed. None are going to become bruisers. Hornqvist is a bit different because he was never really fast but he isn't very big either. The guy barely touches 185-190 so he is more effort than physical presence.

I hate saying it but it's time to move some of these guys while they may still have some trade value. They all have big contracts and those contracts are going to become boat anchors in another year or 2. We already have some boat anchor contracts on the defense and I can't see ay team wanting to take on Jack Johnson's deal due to term. How do we improve unless we start to jettison some of these names? Otherwise, we are going to ride the nostalgia bus for a few more years until the retirements start coming.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Skatingpen on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:36 pm

Daniel wrote:
Cow_Master66 wrote:I would approach this offseason the same as I would every offseason. Everyone should be available, and all options should be considered to determine if it makes the team better. No need to get into any arguments about untouchables, because nobody should be untouchable, and I'll leave it at that.

This series was brutal to watch from start to finish, and the biggest problem I personally have with it is the lack of physicality. Horny mixing it up w/ the goalie last night was the first (and last) sign I saw of anyone trying to rattle the opponent. I don't personally care about the shenanigans at the end of game 2, because it was when the game was over. I'm not usually one to point to lack of fire, but I do think the fact this team went through 4 games and didn't try to change the tone of the game with physicality says a lot about this group. For a team in a win-now mode, I'm not personally sure how you change that, and I'm not sure there's a blueprint to follow outside of infusing young blood. To me, that approach is a bit of a crap shoot. I also don't think they will go that route. Sure, I expect them to bring in some new guys, and I do expect them to move on from some old friends (Phil and Oli will probably top the list), but chances are next season will be more of the same. It would be a tough sell internally, but in reality, I think that approach needs to be pursued from a 2-4 year perspective. How do you sell to the Captain that we are going to "rebuild" a team around you that we think could be a legit contender in 2023? That's a really tough sell to anyone, much less someone as competitive as the Captain.

On the positive side of things, we have the top end assets to bring an influx of young talent in. On the negative side, I don't think we will take that approach so I expect next year will be similar to this one with a few new faces, but same results....I hope I'm wrong, and I hope those smarter than me can figure it out!


The issue is, do they go with Sullivan's speed approach with fancy plays and skill, or JRs gritty more physical approach that cycles better? Until they sort out what kind of style they want, getting players is irrelevant. Since the Reaves trade, there seems to be a disconnect.


Yea, this is clear for sure. Coach and GM are not on the same page. The only thing that makes me madder is how with the Pens and TB losses, the road for the Caps got a lot easier....... I would hate to see another back to back winner!!
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Stillerz Bar on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:37 pm

Hatrick wrote:I said before the playoffs began, the isles would be a tough matchup due to the style they play(only team I would have wanted to play less was the caps tbh). Especially on the road. That's why unlike other people I thought it was important to try to win the division or at the very least get home ice in the first round. They did neither of those things. Of course nobody could have predicted a sweep, I thought it was going 7.

The most disappointing part was that we HAD the lead in the last three games. But we held it for a combined 5 minutes. I was actually encouraged in game one even though we lost because we were able to keep coming back since the theory coming in was the islanders were shutdown when ahead but would have trouble coming from behind. So if we could fight back against their strength we should have had a good chance.

Turns out we would get that lead in games 2, 3, and 4. We gave it up almost immediately each and every time. That was the most frustrating thing.

I agree that the Islanders were a bad matchup for the Pens but in truth, they played the NHL’s version of “Playoff Style Hockey” where toughness is more important than skill and it paid off for them handsomely. Every spring the NHL handicaps their most skilled in the post season and we Pens fans complain about it in large part because we have been lucky enough to have multiple highly skilled players on our favorite team.

During a 2-year stretch we managed to overcome that by having our skilled players A) stop retaliating when the other team took cheap shots and B) make them pay for that style of play by having it result in them being out of position and then we would capitalize by scoring. Those two combined with good but not great goaltending gave us back to back titles.

The D wasn’t great this year and Murray was decent but not great. However, the real killer was our inability to score. Last year in the first round we scored TWENTY-EIGHT goals in 6 games or 4.66 goals per game. This year we didn’t score that many in the last 3 games combined and averaged 1.25 goals per game. There is no way you can win a series that way.

It is a combination of a lot of things but clearly changes have to be made. I would start by moving out Letang & Phil. Both have significant value and could help with a rebuild. Regardless of how he has played, from a sentimental perspective I don’t ever want to see Geno play for another team even though his skillset isn’t what it was and he makes boneheaded decisions. Hopefully he has a few more seasons in him and then he hangs ‘em up. Sid is Sid and like Mario should NEVER play anywhere else - he brought us 3 Cups and as long as he wants to play he writes his own ticket. I am still sad that gretzky played out his last few years being moved around the league and don’t want to see that happen to another generational player.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Daniel on Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:01 pm

maopens wrote:Very disappointed. Not so much with this series as it doesn't come as a surprise that the Pens didn't advance. Surprised they were swept but didn't have a good feeling about this entire season. They just didn't look the same. Was it a collective bad luck season? Perhaps, but I don't really buy that.

As much as I hate to say it, I think we are watching individuals decline and therefore, the collective decline. We have a lot of key pieces who are now 32 or older. No hockey players are in their prime at 32 and it's extremely rare for a 33 year old version to be better than the 32 year old version of the same player. Kessel, Letang, Hornqvist and even Malkin. Did any of those guys have a great season? No. Did any of them have even a good season by their standards? Not to me they didn't.

Malkin seems increasingly frustrated out there and is taking a lot of frustration penalties. Is there something going on with him or is he showing frustration that he recognizes he isn't able to do what once came so easy to him?

Letang was always a great tied to a questionable brain. His decision making has never been great but his pure athletic ability and speed allowed him to cover up for some of those mistakes. He is a turnover machine and he is going to be losing some of that speed soon if he hasn't already.

Kessel, basically the same as Letang. Lots of sloppy turnovers with the puck this year and I didn't see the same burst of speed as he showed in years past.

I love these guys. They brought us 2 more Stanley Cups. But Their games are not going to hold up well into their mid 30's as speed is going to slip and their games are largely built upon speed. None are going to become bruisers. Hornqvist is a bit different because he was never really fast but he isn't very big either. The guy barely touches 185-190 so he is more effort than physical presence.

I hate saying it but it's time to move some of these guys while they may still have some trade value. They all have big contracts and those contracts are going to become boat anchors in another year or 2. We already have some boat anchor contracts on the defense and I can't see ay team wanting to take on Jack Johnson's deal due to term. How do we improve unless we start to jettison some of these names? Otherwise, we are going to ride the nostalgia bus for a few more years until the retirements start coming.


We might see the individual/collective decline, but I always point to Steve Yzerman as a reference. He adapted his game as he got older and won cups after that. I see a lot of similarities in how Sid has adapted as he's gotten older. The Penguins are really built like those teams, with an older core and some younger players throughout the lineup, but they haven't adapted to the decline in skill of the older core. Until they do that, we'll continue to be disappointed.

Just to add, Steve Yzerman won 3 cups after he was Crosby's age and with a core about the same age as the Pens.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby DelPen on Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:37 pm

If you told me just a week ago that the Pens would be playing hockey still after Tampa was eliminated I would have taken that in a heart beat. And that did actually happen.

Reality is a ***** sometimes.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Pitts on Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:14 pm

Daniel wrote:
FLPensFan wrote:I was reading some of Jessie's tweets over the last 24 hours. He's pretty good at picking up the system type stuff, and he made several comments this morning that, contrary to what many are saying, Mike Sullivan did in fact make multiple adjustments throughout the series.....but the Penguins players as a whole executed those adjustments for 10-15 minutes before abandoning them and going back to their old ways.

This is on the players.


When you make adjustments, then don't practice, how can this be on the players? Players will go back to what they know.

The players are not children. They are adults who should know how to follow direction and do their job.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Penspal on Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:55 am

DelPen wrote:If you told me just a week ago that the Pens would be playing hockey still after Tampa was eliminated I would have taken that in a heart beat. And that did actually happen.

Reality is a ***** sometimes.


True Dat.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby Southern Fan on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:25 am

Calgary, Nashville and San Jose are not killing it. Carolina not playing horribly against the Caps. There is an outside chance the Isles will have the best record of any team in the second round.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby penny lane on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:25 am

Reality begins with cleaning the lockers at 10- in Cranberry. Embarrassed is what they should be feeling.
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Re: SCP19 Game 4 vs Isles - Thoughts from the Morning After

Postby alancac98 on Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 am

I think of their demise as several factors that have already been talked about here and throughout other threads. I also take a look at "puck luck" I'll be the first to admit that the Pen's two Championships were heavy with "puck luck" and this often plays a factor in which team wins. Last year, it wasn't that the Caps totally outplayed the other teams, but they, too, seemed to have a lot of "puck luck". It was evident in this series that the hockey gods were also favoring the Isles - they had the luck and we didn't. Nothing illustrates this more that Crosby clanging one off the pipe or kessel shooting into the defenders right leg on an open net chance. What about the last goal scored where Bailey just whirls around and flips the puck down the ice to go center net to solidify the victory.
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