great column that sums up my feelings about Barry Bonds

Post by **Draftnik** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:14 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ock/060314

Post by **netwolf** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:19 pm

I haven't followed MLB much (if at all) in years, but that seems to be a pretty fair piece to me. If Bonds was a loveable Sosa-type or if MLB still needed "saving", he wouldn't be catching half the flak he is.

ville5 · Post by **ville5** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:43 pm

Draftnik wrote:
great column that sums up my feelings about Barry Bonds
What, the column at the bottom of the bird cage?

NIN · Post by **NIN** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:14 am

I find a players personality irrelivant to how good a player he is. If Lemieux punch homeless people in the stomach every sunday at 2:36 pm everyday for 10 years I would still consider him the greatest hokcey player ever. I think Bonds is the best baseball player I have ever seen and is one of the top 5 best of all time. He is a jagoff, who cares?

Post by **Admin** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:29 am

The laughable part though was saying Bonds is a victim. Just because eveyone else was doing it makes it okay and we should feel sorry for him?

Post by **Sam's Drunk Dog** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:48 am

NIN wrote:
I find a players personality irrelivant to how good a player he is. If Lemieux punch homeless people in the stomach every sunday at 2:36 pm everyday for 10 years I would still consider him the greatest hokcey player ever. I think Bonds is the best baseball player I have ever seen and is one of the top 5 best of all time. He is a jagoff, who cares?

What's sad is Bonds would have been known as one of the top 5 best of all time if he hadn't taken steriods.

But he wanted to be known as the best. And the only way to do it was to cheat. And now when people debate his legacy an asterisk will always be added. In fact his Hall of Fame candicy may be in question. (I think he should still get in, he was great before the steriods and hasn't been convicted of anything yet)

It is a shame, because I always liked Bonds even though he was such a complete jagoff. He played the game the way it was meant to be played. But once it was obvious he was on the juice, my opinion of him went way down.

He is not a victim of anything other than his own ego.

ExPatriatePen · Post by **ExPatriatePen** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:37 am

NIN wrote:
I think Bonds is the best baseball player I have ever seen and is one of the top 5 best of all time. He is a jagoff, who cares?

If we're talking about raw baseball skills and not attitude, then he's always been a great player, yes. However, if someone would tell me today that it was a proven fact that Babe Ruth used a corked bat the last 5 years of his career, I wouldn't consider him 'great'.

Cheating destroys the integrity of the game.

I guess guys like Barry Bonds are the reason I gave up following MLB.

Post by **Draftnik** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:44 am

Admin wrote:
The laughable part though was saying Bonds is a victim. Just because eveyone else was doing it makes it okay and we should feel sorry for him?

I don't think anybody should feel sorry for him. I think the public is missing the point that MLB has blood all over their hands. Guys like McGuire & Canseco came into the league as puffed up cartoon characters and cheated from day 1. BB entered the league at approximately the same time and played it clean for ~ 10 seasons. Because MLB didn't prohibit McGuire from building a career on cheating they endorsed juice/HGH as a legitimate way to build better stats and make more $$$. It is easy to see why Bonds went that route.

ExPatriatePen · Post by **ExPatriatePen** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:42 am

Draftnik wrote:
Admin wrote:
The laughable part though was saying Bonds is a victim. Just because eveyone else was doing it makes it okay and we should feel sorry for him?
I don't think anybody should feel sorry for him. I think the public is missing the point that MLB has blood all over their hands. Guys like McGuire & Canseco came into the league as puffed up cartoon characters and cheated from day 1. BB entered the league at approximately the same time and played it clean for ~ 10 seasons. Because MLB didn't prohibit McGuire from building a career on cheating they endorsed juice/HGH as a legitimate way to build better stats and make more $$$. It is easy to see why Bonds went that route.

100's of other MLB players didn't go that route...

Bonds has always been an immature brat. He's perpetually stuck at 13 years old.

Listen to his whining about racism. I thought it was interesting that the day before the book came out, Kirby Puckett died. Not a single bad word was uttered about Puckett, If I didn't know who he was, I wouldn't have even known he was black (No mention of race when discussing him). The next day the Bonds book comes out and the discussion on talk radio included Barry's wish to surpass Babe Ruth, in part because Babe is white, but that he he no speciial desire to eclipse Aaron because Aaron was such a great black man.

Turn the tables and change the race of all three characters and see how that sounds to you.

Post by **Draftnik** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:06 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
100's of other MLB players didn't go that route...

Bonds has always been an immature brat. He's perpetually stuck at 13 years old.

Listen to his whining about racism. I thought it was interesting that the day before the book came out, Kirby Puckett died. Not a single bad word was uttered about Puckett, If I didn't know who he was, I wouldn't have even known he was black (No mention of race when discussing him). The next day the Bonds book comes out and the discussion on talk radio included Barry's wish to surpass Babe Ruth, in part because Babe is white, but that he he no special desire to eclipse Aaron because Aaron was such a great black man.

Turn the tables and change the race of all three characters and see how that sounds to you.

Plenty of bad stuff was said about Puckett. He chocked his ex-wife, went to trial for sexually harassing a Twins employee, and had a long running affair that included fathering a kid out of wedlock publicly disclosed. Not that any of that stuff is relevant to this conversation.

I'm not black so I can't pretend to know Bonds' feelings on Ruth vs. Aaron. I can only assume he respects the sh*t Aaron probably put up with as a black man in his time when he chased the Babe's record. I don't think it is offensive or racist in that context. I do think the public turned a blind eye to McGuire the great white hope. IMO he juiced from day 1 when he hit 49 HRs his rookie season. Canseco claims McGuire was juicing in the 80s. If I were Bonds I would resent the he** out of that fraud. I don't understand how everybody expects Bonds to be some pillar of integrity in all this.

Here is an interesting perspective from an ex player:

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/rozner.asp?id=167877

ExPatriatePen · Post by **ExPatriatePen** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:27 pm

Draftnik wrote:
Plenty of bad stuff was said about Puckett. He chocked his ex-wife, went to trial for sexually harassing a Twins employee, and had a long running affair that included fathering a kid out of wedlock publicly disclosed.

I'm aware of those incidents and allegations, but I believe it just serves to underscore my point.

Puckett had flaws, serious flaws, but was involved in charity and community events. Behind closed doors he had a darkside, but was never blaming others for his problems. Thus Kirby was viewed positively by the general public.

Bonds has his own mistress, his own allegations of spousal abuse, etc... but Bonds is surly and defiant. He's always blaming the media foor picking on him. Does anyone really wonder why seemingly everyone outside S.F. can't stand him?

Post by **Fast B** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:39 pm

ExPatriatePen wrote:
Draftnik wrote:
Plenty of bad stuff was said about Puckett. He chocked his ex-wife, went to trial for sexually harassing a Twins employee, and had a long running affair that included fathering a kid out of wedlock publicly disclosed.
Does anyone really wonder why seemingly everyone outside S.F. can't stand him?

Even some people in SF can't stand him, but they acknowledge that he's exciting to watch. It seems like kind of an love-hate relationship to me.

(I'm not actually a Giants fan, so I'm just guessing here.)