A little late, but... Breaking Bad???

[Crankshaft]

After reading those endings. I think the one they went with was clearly the best one. Bad Finger's Baby Blue was the perfect song to end on.

[WDWBurghGooner]

I've been binge watching the series over the past couple of weeks and I just watched the final last night.

I'm confused, how did Lydia get the ricin laced stevia? I've re-watched the scene three times. It doesn't appear that Walt leaves anything nor does the waiter come back after she asks for the stevia. Is that just a "let it slide it's tv" moment? Or did I miss something?

[tifosi77]

Walt is sitting there the whole time before Lydia takes her seat and starts talking with Todd. He switched out the Stevia (making sure only one packet - the one laced with the ricin - was available for her) before she ever arrived. "Creature of habit" and whatnot. The set up is it happened off camera.

[Dickie Dunn]

Hmm... so the complete series DVD set will include a 3 minute alternate ending. I am not sure how I feel about that.

If I had to wager a guess, I think its a joke ending. Jane Kaczmarek was seen on set toward the end of filming. I think Hal is going to wake up from a long dream, ala Newhart.

Called it.

[youtube][/youtube]

[PensFanInDC]

Video was taken down. BOOOO!!!

[Crankshaft]

I caught it before it was taken down. Very funny. It's amazing how the both of them snapped back into their old characters so fast.

[count2infinity]

Mirror: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

some nsfw ads around it.... just be aware.

[tifosi77]

"Yay science, b-word!"

[Sarcastic]

I've been binge watching the series over the past couple of weeks and I just watched the final last night.

I'm confused, how did Lydia get the ricin laced stevia? I've re-watched the scene three times. It doesn't appear that Walt leaves anything nor does the waiter come back after she asks for the stevia. Is that just a "let it slide it's tv" moment? Or did I miss something?

don't know if the spoiler thing is still needed but..

Spoiler:

I had to rewatch it myself but I think he came early, before Lydia, and removed all the other sugar pockets from the table, leaving only one he poisoned. That's why she asked the waiter for more, but already grabbed the one Walter left.

[Sarcastic]

Guys, I did not like the ending. It was hurried and kind of a mess. Too much crazy stuff like the machine gun... I better put it in a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Yeah, so the bad guys just all set themselves up to be cut down by fire like that. Had no time react and get down. Suuure. It was right out of a cheap Hollywood action film. It was actually ridiculous.

I don't like overly dramatic endings that finish on a sour note anyway. I hoped Walt's family would grab the money and leave and just live happily ever after. But his wife had to go totally nuts (she attacked Walt and almost cut his hand off then his son blamed Walt for no reason, calling the police) and everything went to hell from there. All that happened in the end was due to that idiot Jesse and Walt's crazy wife. And Hank's wife. Hell, Hank went obsessed with Walter in the end.

I talked with a lot of people on this and Walt is taken in different light by many and there is no consensus. For me, Walt was a hero. He did anything he could to help his family, which includes Jesse. He loved Jesse like his second son. I felt Walt should have taken him out a year earlier because he was becoming a real problem but, in the end, it was Jesse that did him in. I hated Jesse's character in the end just as much as Walt's wife. Walt even saved his wife right in the end so she didn't go to prison. He begged for Hank's life before he was killed. Yet, some people see Walt as the bad guy. He got an ego in the end, but not toward people he cared about.

Why was there so much focus on things I didn't care about like the Nazis and Lydia and virtually nothing on his complicated relationship with Jesse. BTW, I thought Jesse deserved the crap he got beaten out of him by those Nazis.

When Walt told Jesse in the end that he could have saved that girl he loved so much (played by Kristyn Ritter), well, I felt that was Walt's ultimate way of trying to save Jesse, as he was spinning out of control with the drugs and there was no connection with him anymore. Make no mistake, it was Jesse who was responsible for her death, as it was HE who got her back into drugs. Jesse's failed escape attempt got the second girl killed, after they put up her picture to let him know what will happen.

Jesse is the bad guy in all of it and Walter is like the loving dad that's going nuts trying to save him.

BTW, you guys must have read that Skyler's character was hated so much, she was getting insults on her twitter.

Couple of articles that partly describe my feelings on the finale.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv_c ... bsurd.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maureen-r ... 15186.html

[shmenguin]

As time has passed, I've liked the finale less and less

Though I don't really share sarcastic's general perspective.

[MWB]

Sarcastic, I agree with a lot of what you say, but you ignore a lot of what Walt did. Yes, he was trying to help Jesse and his family. However, he killed quite a few people in the process, including people who were loved by those he was "protecting." He also nearly killed a little kid. He thought he was a God-like figure, through and through. He was in control of everything and knew what was best for everyone. But he really wasn't, and ended up screwing a lot of people over.

[Gaucho]

Sarcastic and me must've watched different shows.

[Sarcastic]

Sarcastic, I agree with a lot of what you say, but you ignore a lot of what Walt did. Yes, he was trying to help Jesse and his family. However, he killed quite a few people in the process, including people who were loved by those he was "protecting." He also nearly killed a little kid. He thought he was a God-like figure, through and through. He was in control of everything and knew what was best for everyone. But he really wasn't, and ended up screwing a lot of people over.

He was like a God figure. Absolutely. Smarter than everyone else. And the further it went, the bigger he got. I am not saying he was an angelic savior. He clearly got ruthless when he felt he had to, but I always found sympathy for him because I think things he did were out of necessity. I don't recall him killing some of those people you mention. If you could refresh my mind. I remember the boy he poisoned. Again, if he was heartless he wouldn't have tried doing that in such a way the boy would live. As I said, things he did were out necessity, not because he was a maniac. That's how I saw it. And when he killed some of the bad guys, good riddance.

But I know people who share your view, so that's fine.

And did he really screw some people close to him? Like who? He even 'retired' in the end. Everything was over. It's other people, people close to him, who wouldn't let go. I don't even know why Jesse hated him so much. I can understand the thing with the boy, but other than that?

As I said, the people I learned to hate were Jesse, an irrational drug addict who was in on most of what Walt did yet blamed him later, and Skyler who just went crazy in an overly dramatic fashion I never understood. That whole fear she had for the mafia coming to kill her family was overplayed on the show, imo.

[MWB]

Yes, Jesse can blame a lot of his circumstances on himself. However, Walt pulled Jesse back each time he tried to get out of the business, because Walt needed Jesse for his own personal needs. That led to the death of the first girlfriend, which I agree could also be seen as Jesse's fault. It led to the death of the kid's mother, which I don't think Jesse should be blamed for. Walt is the one who got into bed with the Nazis and is to blame for anything that resulted from that connection.

I agree with you completely that Walt saw Jesse as his son. He definitely did everything with a purpose and an end.

As for Skylar… How could it be said that she was overly dramatic about the mafia coming after her? The Nazis broke into her house and threatened to kill her and her family. They needed her to be kept quiet because they knew that she knew. Skylar wasn't a favorite of mine, but I think her character made sense. She wanted her family to be safe and did what was best for them. Just like Walt. They went about it different ways though.

This is what makes this show so great. Differing opinions that both make relative sense.

[count2infinity]

To quote Mike...

We had a good thing, you stupid son of a *****! We had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork! You could have shut your mouth, cooked, and made as much money as you ever needed! It was perfect! But no! You just had to blow it up! You, and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man! If you’d known your place, we’d all be fine right now!"

I completely blame Walt for it all. I understand his need for control over his recipe. He needs that control or he dies. Fring could have easily replaced him once his recipe was mastered. That I understand. His incessant need to be the top dog though... THAT is what did him in, not Jesse.

[shmenguin]

Walt was a bad person (hey...like the show's title!)

He didn't deserve his happy ascent into heaven that the show closed on. The finale was one long cop out.

[Idoit40fans]

It was all hank's fault. He basically bullied walt into feeli the need to prove himself and basically showed himthe door to walk through to do so. :soda:

[Sarcastic]

Yes, Jesse can blame a lot of his circumstances on himself. However, Walt pulled Jesse back each time he tried to get out of the business, because Walt needed Jesse for his own personal needs. That led to the death of the first girlfriend, which I agree could also be seen as Jesse's fault. It led to the death of the kid's mother, which I don't think Jesse should be blamed for. Walt is the one who got into bed with the Nazis and is to blame for anything that resulted from that connection.

I agree with you completely that Walt saw Jesse as his son. He definitely did everything with a purpose and an end.

As for Skylar… How could it be said that she was overly dramatic about the mafia coming after her? The Nazis broke into her house and threatened to kill her and her family. They needed her to be kept quiet because they knew that she knew. Skylar wasn't a favorite of mine, but I think her character made sense. She wanted her family to be safe and did what was best for them. Just like Walt. They went about it different ways though.

This is what makes this show so great. Differing opinions that both make relative sense.

I'm sure that's what the writers envisioned. There is so much psychological stuff on the show and with most of these characters that it isn't black and white. A lot of emotion and I think people react differently.

I think I lost my respect for Skyler the moment she said she wished he would die. Things only got worse from there.

[Sarcastic]

To quote Mike...

We had a good thing, you stupid son of a *****! We had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork! You could have shut your mouth, cooked, and made as much money as you ever needed! It was perfect! But no! You just had to blow it up! You, and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man! If you’d known your place, we’d all be fine right now!"

I completely blame Walt for it all. I understand his need for control over his recipe. He needs that control or he dies. Fring could have easily replaced him once his recipe was mastered. That I understand. His incessant need to be the top dog though... THAT is what did him in, not Jesse.

Why shouldn't Walt be the top dog if it's his meth we're talking about? The mafia he worked for... the moment he'd do anything against their rules, he'd be a goner. I think he had to go on his own one way or another.

[Sarcastic]

It was all hank's fault. He basically bullied walt into feeli the need to prove himself and basically showed himthe door to walk through to do so. :soda:

Speaking of Hank.

Hank became a crazed, obsessed, lawman that needed the prove himself to his wife and his DEA co-workers. Same with his wife toward the end. I hated those two so much for putting work (DEA reputation) ahead of their family that Walt was. No chance to explain or talk things out, even after Hank realized it was Walt who paid off his medical bills and that Walt was essentially 'retired'. Walt became Hank's Moby Dick. And he paid for it.

[count2infinity]

To quote Mike...

We had a good thing, you stupid son of a *****! We had Fring, we had a lab, we had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork! You could have shut your mouth, cooked, and made as much money as you ever needed! It was perfect! But no! You just had to blow it up! You, and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man! If you’d known your place, we’d all be fine right now!"

I completely blame Walt for it all. I understand his need for control over his recipe. He needs that control or he dies. Fring could have easily replaced him once his recipe was mastered. That I understand. His incessant need to be the top dog though... THAT is what did him in, not Jesse.

Why shouldn't Walt be the top dog if it's his meth we're talking about? The mafia he worked for... the moment he'd do anything against their rules, he'd be a goner. I think he had to go on his own one way or another.

You mean to tell me that everything microsoft has ever done is all Bill Gates? Everything that Apple has ever done was Steve Jobs? That's the way businesses work. The people that are the brilliant geniuses that come up with brilliant innovations and ideas are not the top dogs, they are people that are working under the top dogs. Walt started out with a set number in his mind of how much money he needed to make. All he had to do was cook for Fring, make his money and get out, but he didn't do that. He couldn't stand the fact that he wasn't top dog, and that is what did him in.

[Sarcastic]

You mean to tell me that everything microsoft has ever done is all Bill Gates? Everything that Apple has ever done was Steve Jobs? That's the way businesses work. The people that are the brilliant geniuses that come up with brilliant innovations and ideas are not the top dogs, they are people that are working under the top dogs. Walt started out with a set number in his mind of how much money he needed to make. All he had to do was cook for Fring, make his money and get out, but he didn't do that. He couldn't stand the fact that he wasn't top dog, and that is what did him in.

If you're going to go that far, we might as well say Walt should have never gotten into the drug business, just roll over and die from cancer. For such a complicated character, I think it's needed to understand why he did certain things and that he did a lot of that to protect himself with the ultimate goal which was to provide for his family. I don't think I ever saw him as a ruthless attacker. If we're looking at it as just, well, drugs are illegal, he did himself in... well, then he has no chance in the argument. Things happened. He got pulled in probably more than he intended. But I still and always saw Walt as doing everything to make sure his family is OK. Some things were out of his control. That boy on the bike that Todd shot. What did you expect Walt to do.. surrender to the police? An unfortunate event that hit Jesse really hard. I think Walt's aim to become top dog later was totally fine because it became his business, one, and two, Fring was the bad guy, the really bad guy who would have done something to Walt in the end regardless, as he wanted to do to Jesse (if I remember right). Mike was ruthless. Walt did to Fring what he had to do... he basically got him first.

[count2infinity]

I'm not necessarily saying that he shouldn't have gotten into the drug business. I understand that's the entire premise of the show, but initially he calculated exactly how much he needed to keep his family set for after he's gone. If memory serves that number was well under a million dollars (it was around $350,00 I think). Why did he need to continue after he made his first few million? Why did he press to become top dog? It was his pride, his ego, all the bad features of Walt that caused him to be a bad person. I understand that Fring was a bad guy, that's not the argument I'm trying to make. You make the assertion that Walt is a good guy and did everything for his family. Sure, that's how it started, but Walt himself admitted that it's not what kept him going. Obviously all the characters on the drug side of things in this series are bad people but to say "Jesse is the bad guy in all of it and Walter is like the loving dad that's going nuts trying to save him." Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[Gaucho]

^ this