LGP NASCAR Thread

[TheHammer24]

Under your theory, Stewart had license to gun the car and intentionally run Ward over because what Ward was "against the regs of pretty much every motorsport."

That's not at all what I'm saying. My statement is couched entirely in the context of the facts (as they are presently known) of this particular accident. How that became "murder is legal" is a bit of a stretch. None of the hypothetical situations you posit are appropriate comparisons.

Someone creates a situation or circumstance where another person doing something totally legal and within their boundaries ends up killing the first person through no mis-deed on the part of the second person. There's no criminal intent here (I challenge anyone to produce something that would stand up in court), and absent that there is no culpability on Stewart's part. It was just an accident - but one that was 100% within Ward's power to prevent.

That's fine. But you were responding to Idoit, who said that "if Stewart was trying to spray him with mud, screwed up, and killed him, then Stewart shouldn't race again and probably go to jail." Do you disagree with that statement?

[Idoit40fans]

Under your theory, Stewart had license to gun the car and intentionally run Ward over because what Ward was "against the regs of pretty much every motorsport."

That's not at all what I'm saying. My statement is couched entirely in the context of the facts (as they are presently known) of this particular accident. How that became "murder is legal" is a bit of a stretch. None of the hypothetical situations you posit are appropriate comparisons.

Someone creates a situation or circumstance where another person doing something totally legal and within their boundaries ends up killing the first person through no mis-deed on the part of the second person. There's no criminal intent here (I challenge anyone to produce something that would stand up in court), and absent that there is no culpability on Stewart's part. It was just an accident - but one that was 100% within Ward's power to prevent.

That's fine. But you were responding to Idoit, who said that "if Stewart was trying to spray him with mud, screwed up, and killed him, then Stewart shouldn't race again and probably go to jail." Do you disagree with that statement?

Yeah based on the context of what I said and your response, I took it to mean Stewart "more or less" had carte blanche.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

think we all need that after the Pryce vid

[tifosi77]

My response was to ID40's statement "Well...is anyone arguing that he wasnt stupid for being there? I dont understand why so many people bring it up when no one is arguing otherwise." Which came about after Shaf pointed out that it was incorrect to say "It doesnt matter why [Ward] was there."

For the record, if Stewart was trying to give him a mudbath, that changes the calculus; it would be evidence of involuntary manslaughter. But you would need to ascertain intent, and I don't know how you can do that, because there is a very valid reason for why TS could have revved the engine (that's how you make those cars turn). He'd effectively have to admit he blipped the throttle to spray mud and not because he was trying to turn the car to avoid the loony driver in the middle of the race track.

[tifosi77]

Interesting....... no reason has been given, but the sheriff has requested that Ward's toxicology test results be kept confidential for the time being.

Cause of death has been ascribed to 'massive blunt trauma', but no further explanation of his injuries is being released.

[TheHammer24]

Interesting....... no reason has been given, but the sheriff has requested that Ward's toxicology test results be kept confidential for the time being.

Cause of death has been ascribed to 'massive blunt trauma', but no further explanation of his injuries is being released.

I didn't hear the part where a reporter specifically asked about the toxicology report, but earlier in the press conference the Sheriff said "autopsy completed. massive blunt trauma. Coroner asked that no more details be released." It sounded more like a standard procedure that covered toxicology reports.

[tifosi77]

Apparently that is at the request of the local DA.

[TheHammer24]

Apparently that is at the request of the local DA.

I think you're misunderstanding me. The DA asked the Sheriff to not disclose any information from the autopsy other than the cause of death. This doesn't sound remarkable to me. In fact, it sounds like standard procedure. A reporter then asked about toxicology. The Sheriff shoudl have said "I can't release anything from the autopsy." Instead, he said "the DA asked not to release the toxicology reports," which needlessly made it sound like there was something remarkable from the toxicology when, in fact, the DA had just asked not to release anything.

[tifosi77]

The biggest surprise in that is there was a toxicology report at all. They usually take weeks. (Unless they are only testing for BAC)

[Shyster]

I'd be amazed if the tox report were already available. We don't yet have one for my late father, and he died a month ago.

[mac5155]

Yeesh........ LGPers, do not Google Tom Pryce videos unless you want to ruin the rest of your day.

Yah, I'll say. I was so shocked by that. Just the sheer speed.. then the zooming in..

[dodint]

I felt bad for the first two of you that looked it up, but the rest are a bunch of sick bastards. heh.

[mac5155]

I actually got linked to it off reddit. But still bad

[tifosi77]

Yeesh........ LGPers, do not Google Tom Pryce videos unless you want to ruin the rest of your day.

Yah, I'll say. I was so shocked by that. Just the sheer speed.. then the zooming in..

Yeah....................

Pryce hit the 19-year old marshal at ~170 mph. The fire extinguisher the marshal was carrying struck Pryce in the face, and effectively decapitated him internally. The impact actually sent the extinguisher flying over the spectator grandstand and into the goddamn parking lot something like 400 yards away. With Pryce dead at the wheel, the car continued on down the straight for about 2/3 of a mile before colliding with another car and sending them both off into the weeds. The marshal's body was so badly torn up that they initially figured out who it even was by calling a meeting of all the track marshals in the immediate aftermath and that kid was the only no-show.

It should be noted that this accident happened on lap 22 of a 78-lap race. Which was won (at full distance) by Niki Lauda, in his first victory after himself nearly dying in a burned up Ferrari the previous season. They didn't stop the race. Different times.

[CBear3]

On another gruesome note, I saw Gilles's fatal wreck for the first time this month and nearly lost it.

[dodint]

As long as we're going down that road, Riccardo Paletti is the one that really makes me wince.

In only his second race Paletti crashed at 100mph into the back of Didier Pironi who had stalled on the grid, suffering severe chest injuries. Medical aid was on the scene in seconds but his full fuel tank then ignited, enveloping Paletti in flames (such was the effectiveness of the fire-retardant overalls that he suffered no burns). It took another 25 minutes to cut him out of the wreckage but he died soon after arriving at a nearby hospital.
Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/3838.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From what I recall his mother was there. High speed accidents are terrible looking, but being inside a crushed and burning car is absolute horror.

[tifosi77]

High speed accidents are terrible looking, but being inside a crushed and burning car is absolute horror.

Two words: Lorenzo Bandini

I honestly think that accident is why the ACM now has the best marshal crew of any event in F1. They are even used to train track marshals at new F1 venues.

[tifosi77]

And with that, I'll stop posting non-NASCAR related stuff in the NASCAR thread.

Sorry for the mini hijack.

[relantel]

Tragedy almost always leads to safety improvements. Sometimes it takes major tragedy to make major impacts though.

NASCAR has been very fortunate to avoid any major-series fatalities for quite a number of years. There was a rush in the year or so leading up to Dale Earnhardt -- Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, John Nemechek. Last one that sticks out is Blaise Alexander in an ARCA race that Kerry Earnhardt ran at Charlotte in 2001. Wreck was so bad they called the race 4 laps early. Had they restarted, someone else would have won but ARCA's rules were last completed lap so even though on his roof and out of the race, Earnhardt won and Alexander finished second. They had gotten together after lapped traffic bunched the two up racing for the lead during 5 to go. The hard turn into the wall by Alexander was reminiscent of the Earnhardt wreck at Daytona on 2/18/01, but the reaction off the wall was much more violent.

[shafnutz05]

Colin Cowherd blaming this tragedy on Southern culture. lol

[tifosi77]

Colin Cowherd blaming this tragedy on Southern culture. lol

I heard that this morning and had to

The best part of that rant was how he said his audience loves him to the extent that they agree with him; when he says something unpopular, people hate on him. He said that's okay, you live in an echochamber. You want your opinion validated. He then moved directly into an email he got from a NASCAR guy who basically reiterated the points Colin made about Steward-Ward yesterday. Said he had to root through thousands of emails to find that one....... so he bagged on listeners who determine their level of like off their level of agree, and then immediately told of sifting through reams of emails to get to the one that validated his stance. He railed on echochambers, and then entered an echochamber.

Generally, I like Colin a lot (even when I disagree with him), and I listen to him every morning almost without fail. But this was just stupid. Tony Stewart is from and currently lives in Indiana. Kevin Ward was born in upstate New York and lived in a town with fewer than 1,000 residents. They are about as far from 'The War Of Northern Aggression' as you can get. I don't really disagree with the concept of his point (he had an AD on from some SEC school a few months ago who basically said football is so popular in the South because of the Civil War), but I do think it's misapplied in this case.

[shafnutz05]

Yeah I normally don't mind Cowherd at all, but wow he was being aggressively stupid today.

[tifosi77]

Oh, and to make matters worse, this rant was going on just as I was trying to merge onto the 405. It was like a double dose of anger-rage sweeping over me. Good thing I'm from the northeast - I maintained my composure and stayed in my car. Surely, if I were a southerner, I'd have gotten out, thrown my beagles at traffic, and gotten runover by an unlicensed day laborer.

[columbia]

He seems to have been paraphrasing HL Mencken by saying, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of a redneck."

[relantel]

Stewart-Hass 4 team penalized for loose weight (fine only) at Watkins Glen- apparently for the loose beanbags they forgot to take out (that Harvick had to pit unscheduled under green to remove) before the race started.

3-M leaves Roush/Biffle for Hendrick/Gordon in 2015

Ryan Blaney to run part time for Wood Brothers #21 in 2015 (Trevor Bayne to run full time for Roush as Edwards is out the door, presumably to a 4th JGR Toyota)

Loved the Dinger delivering for JTG what Ambrose threw away at Sonoma a few years back while running for that team, then jumped ship to the 9. All the while with Ambrose in that 9 finishing second. If NASCAR had an equivalent of the Masterton, Allmendinger would win it. Comes back from getting suspended for a failed drug test two years ago, losing his ride with Penske, goes through the "Road to Recovery" program NASCAR has, and gets a single car but full time ride, and makes it pay off.