2014-2015 Pirates Offseason Thread

[shafnutz05]

Can't wait to see him get shelled again at the end of the year.

At least they will be irrelevant by the middle of September

[shafnutz05]

It is pretty cool reading about how it was Pittsburgh or retirement for Burnett

[Rocco]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal · 28m 28 minutes ago
Executives involved in bidding for Russell Martin believe #Cubs are clear front-runner. Deal expected to be in four-year, $64M range.

[FreeCandy44]

There should be NO reason why the Pirates couldnt match that deal.

[columbia]

That gets into can vs. willing to vs. is it a good idea.

[FreeCandy44]

At 4 years 64 million, id do that deal in a heartbeat. If its true and all, thats atleast 10 million less than what I though he would be offered. If the Pirates are serious about competing and making a star center fielder happy...they can and should be better than this deal.

[Rocco]

At 4 years 64 million, id do that deal in a heartbeat. If its true and all, thats atleast 10 million less than what I though he would be offered. If the Pirates are serious about competing and making a star center fielder happy...they can and should be better than this deal.

Even though that contract will likely be an albatross after 2016?

[skullman80]

16 mil a year ... for 4 years... I wouldn't blame the Pirates for walking away from that. That contract would be ugly after year 2 or so.

[FreeCandy44]

Gotta take a risk sometimes, maybe showing commitment to winning by signing key players and not always shopping in the dollar store last chance bin would be good pr for a team who still has doubting fans.

[ulf]

I'd hope they're more interested in winning games than winning over doubting fans

[Rocco]

Gotta take a risk sometimes, maybe showing commitment to winning by signing key players and not always shopping in the dollar store last chance bin would be good pr for a team who still has doubting fans.

Those same doubting fans will be the ones complaining when Martin's hitting .200 and making $16M/year. If they're still doubting at this point they aren't paying attention.

[FreeCandy44]

Meh...maybe I should take off my R Mart shersey while I post here right now. It doesnt really matter what I think....he is not coming back anyways.

[ulf]

It's the same old song and dance every offseason. Until they sign the next A-Rod for 250 mil, they're not interested in winning. No matter what they do, the goalposts keep moving. The same people that said Martin was a bad signing are ready to crucify Nutting for not re-signing him. Kind of amusing, actually. Probably the same ones that said Volquez wasn't worth 5 mil, Burnett was washed up, Liriano sucks, yada yada.

[Mr. Colby]

I'm conflicted. 4/64 is too much, yeah, but not THAT too much. I think i'll trust whatever decision they make and try to ignore the people that don't stop ********

[TheGhostofGoulet]

If there is one team that knows smart spending, it's definitely the Chicago Cubs.

[Bioshock]

Gotta take a risk sometimes, maybe showing commitment to winning by signing key players and not always shopping in the dollar store last chance bin would be good pr for a team who still has doubting fans.

Those same doubting fans will be the ones complaining when Martin's hitting .200 and making $16M/year. If they're still doubting at this point they aren't paying attention.

Who cares what the fans think? Who cares if it's an albatross after a few years? If Nutting thinks Russell Martin is a key player in what could be a world series opportunity, then he should do whatever is necessary.

I honestly couldn't care less if it cripples the pirates in the 4th year of the contract. The window for this team to win is while McCutchen is here. He ain't signing after 2019. And before you attack me for saying why the Pirates can sign Martin for 65 Million but not McCutchen... Well, McCutchen is gonna get over 300 Million dollars. Pirates literally don't have the finances.

The window is now.

[Factorial]

16 mil a year ... for 4 years... I wouldn't blame the Pirates for walking away from that. That contract would be ugly after year 2 or so.

Too long and too much.

[MWB]

Doing "whatever necessary" is what gets a team like the Pirates in trouble. They have to make smart moves. Sometimes overpaying for a guy like Martin would be smart, but not always. Offensively, he was great last year, but not so good the three years before that. He's 32 and plays where he is much more likely to breakdown soon.

[columbia]

If the Pirates are serious about....making a star center fielder happy

They should be sensitive to this issue. However that can be achieved by NH pulling Cutch aside and saying, "I know that you are disappointed. We offered him three years at $15M a piece (or whatever it might have been) and he still turned us down. It was a very reasonable/competitive offer, but we couldn't go higher...."

However, in some sense, that probably doesn't matter because....

The window for this team to win is while McCutchen is here. He ain't signing after 2019. And before you attack me for saying why the Pirates can sign Martin for 65 Million but not McCutchen... Well, McCutchen is gonna get over 300 Million dollars. Pirates literally don't have the finances.

There's little reason to believe that Cutch will stick around, regardless if they went to the well to pay Martin.

[Troy Loney]

They can only do that contract if there's a limited no movement clause. They'd really need to move him after year one or two of that contract.

This is also a guy who the pirates recently signed for 2 years 17M. The offense last year appears contract year related. He'll always play good defense, but why pay for the offense that he will certainly not replicate again.

[Troy Loney]

The competitive window is not McCutchen related. The window is Cole, Taillon & Glasnow.

[the errey i breathe]

The competitive window is not McCutchen related. The window is Cole, Taillon & Glasnow.

Exactly, I think that we're just at the beginning of the window. Let's not overestimate Martin's contributions and throw a blank check. Using that money to upgrade 1b and the rotation could bring back more value than trotting out Pedro/Gaby/Ike and the current mismatch staff.

[Rocco]

Gotta take a risk sometimes, maybe showing commitment to winning by signing key players and not always shopping in the dollar store last chance bin would be good pr for a team who still has doubting fans.

Those same doubting fans will be the ones complaining when Martin's hitting .200 and making $16M/year. If they're still doubting at this point they aren't paying attention.

Who cares what the fans think? Who cares if it's an albatross after a few years? If Nutting thinks Russell Martin is a key player in what could be a world series opportunity, then he should do whatever is necessary.

I honestly couldn't care less if it cripples the pirates in the 4th year of the contract. The window for this team to win is while McCutchen is here. He ain't signing after 2019. And before you attack me for saying why the Pirates can sign Martin for 65 Million but not McCutchen... Well, McCutchen is gonna get over 300 Million dollars. Pirates literally don't have the finances.

The window is now.

1) People were saying in 2011 the Pirates should go for it at the deadline because they might never have a shot at contending again. They said it in 2012, and 2013, and 2014. I find it curious why people keep wanting to close the window before it actually closes.

2) If you sign Martin to a 4-year deal, you're committing $16M+ to a player who likely won't be worth that much at the same time as Cole and Polanco et al. start to get expensive. The young cheap players aren't going to stay young and cheap. Signing Martin would really hurt their ability to stay competitive for the end of Cutch's contract.

3) Given how players age it may not be the worst thing in the world that Cutch isn't staying once his contract ends but we can panic about that later.

4) If the Cubs are offering 4/64, the Dodgers will likely offer 5/80 soon.

[BleuLineLady]

The competitive window is not McCutchen related. The window is Cole, Taillon & Glasnow.

Exactly, I think that we're just at the beginning of the window. Let's not overestimate Martin's contributions and throw a blank check. Using that money to upgrade 1b and the rotation could bring back more value than trotting out Pedro/Gaby/Ike and the current mismatch staff.

Not sure you can put too much weight on that. Two of those guys have yet to pitch an inning of MLB. One of which is coming off Tommy Johns. And the 3rd (Cole) while is emerging as a very good pitcher, has not consistently pitched like a front line #1 starter in the league. I feel like he may get there next year, but there's a lot of if's there for the future. Looking at the present...we know what the Pirates have. They have arguably the best player in the NL...Top 5 player in all of baseball. He's a rare player and he's consistent. Regardless if they resign Cutch or not when his contract is up...his best years probably will be right around now.

I do agree if this part of your point, that pitching is more important to winning a championship. But that pitching isn't here yet and we're not sure if it ever will come.

I'm okay with letting Russ walk at the numbers they're talking about, but the rest of that supposed Russ money needs to go to Liriano or a similar #2 starter.

[pittsports87]

Martin to the Blue Jays. 5 years, $82 million. Glad we didn't do a deal that long for that much money.