Jerry Sandusky and Related Trials

[count2infinity]

Dear Crankshaft... I saw that. Also:

Spoiler:

[DudeMan2766]

Ah yes, the ol Take everything 1000% literally to prove the person wrong defense. An LGP fav. When I said Pitt fans have moved on I very clearly meant every single last one of them right down to the individual. This thread would be on about page 9 by now but its constantly getting bumped by nonsense pro PSU articles like the one that just stated the NCAA failed sexually abused children by punishing Penn State. But I've lost this fight. Its obviously the Penn State haterzzzzzzz that wont let this just go away. The fact that you had to assume the only reason I'm not on PSU's side in this is because I must have any affiliation with a "rival" speaks volumes. Congrats DTMB on getting the wins back and sanctions lifted. One small step for man, one giant leap for Joe's legacy.

Now if you'll excuse me this mentally deficient ignoramus has a busy evening planned of trying to force my blocks into the wrong shaped holes and getting angry about it.

We Are

Spoiler:

Boy, you sure showed me

[Crankshaft]

Dear Crankshaft... I saw that. Also:

Spoiler:

[Factorial]

Spoliered due to size:

Spoiler:

[Factorial]

Michael Boni, a lawyer for one of the victims who testified at Sandusky’s trial, said he does not believe Paterno’s victories should be reinstated because they were “tarnished” by Sandusky. He also said he sensed a shift in Penn State’s attitude after the criminal case against Sandusky wrapped up and the university concluded civil settlements with victims.

“There was a movement away from what I thought was a genuine mea culpa on the part of Penn State, having accepted the NCAA sanctions, and one toward, ‘Why did we cave so easily?’ That was disappointing,” Boni said.

I agree with Mr. Boni.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... ml?hpid=z3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Lt. Dish, you should have kept your post. I thought it was well said and you articulated everything that I feel on this matter.

[DudeMan2766]

I took the time to read Dish's post and feel she should have kept it too (even tho it was different than my opinion. Crazy huh) Not sure why she would delete it. The only thing I will say to it is, I keep hearing phrases like, "When the truth comes out," or "When we know the whole truth." For very many of us we are well past the point of waiting for some truth we'll never know for sure. Enough of the truth has already been reveled for us to make a well formed opinion. This isn't some anti PSU mob that just jumped to outrageous conclusions. At the very least we know several people involved with running the football program knew what was going on and did nothing to very little about it. To me that is deplorable. Wasn't at some point Sandusky banned from the games or practices? That couldn't have been for no reason. Yet he was still allowed access to facilities. Why did Joe begin to distance himself from Sandusky? Just because? I can decide without the WHOLE truth that is "not doing enough." I'm through waiting for the whole truth because no matter what that wont be enough and the goalposts will be moved back and we'll need more truth. I have enough information to logically conclude the university and some of its officials by and large ignored this. And if the NCAA over stepped its bounds on certain punishments then that's just too bad. Theres a reason why most people outside of PSU ties arent really sympathetic for your plight.

[columbia]

Everyone who should have done enough didn't. That's the main takeaway.

[Lt. Dish]

Lt. Dish, you should have kept your post. I thought it was well said and you articulated everything that I feel on this matter.

It's just as well.

I shared a deep dark secret (as a nonsequitur for levity), too.

[columbia]

I should add that some - those with extraordinary power - failed more than others.

[tifosi77]

That's the prototypical Penn State stance since this whole thing began. Take 5 seconds to pretend to care about the victims then make sure everyone knows how the NCAA made everything up and screwed over PSU.

Ignoramus level: expert.

No its pretty spot on actually. I've had my fill of hearing "but the victims! the victims!" followed by how bad Penn State was wronged. All that matters is that Joe got his wins back, that statue will be back up before the weekends over, and it'll be a never ending crusade too clear Penn State's good name against the big bad NCAA bully that singled out poor PSU for no good reason these last few years.

The ongoing process of dealing with the consent decree, and the ramifications following on to it, are pretty much the only bits of this story with any regular, public activity. Of course that's going to get talked about the most, it's still topical and changing by the week in some instances.

And that's really fcking insulting to insinuate that because there is an effort to correct a rightable wrong that there is somehow a lack of appreciation for what's at the heart of this matter.

[DudeMan2766]

It was meant to be insulting. Because I've seen plenty of it. An example right off the top of my head would be the article I was commenting on.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Do people still believe that Paterno was the most powerful person at Penn State? Any power he had was given to him from the Board of Trustees who made millions upon millions more than he did. The same board members who were on the board of the Second Mile. If these people wanted Sandusky to have access to campus facilities, there isn't anything Paterno or any other person at PSU could do.

I don't believe their was some conspiracy though. The unfortunate fact is that Sandusky fooled everyone into believing that he was looking out for these kids. He built himself up so well that you could look past some of his questioable behavior especially when the government agencies had vouched for him.

The closest anyone came to discovering his true identity was McQuery. If you actually read all of his testimony though, you get the sense that he might have never actually saw anything. At least his Dad and family friend weren't concerned enough to advise him to call the police. He has also gone on record as saying that Paterno handled the situation as best as he could with the way he (McQuery) conveyed it.

[DontToewsMeBro]

If I remember correctly, Sandusky was found not guilty on the account detailed in the McQuery testimony. Most people probably don't know that.

[viva la ben]

Sandusky was found guilty on 45 of 48 charges that included 10 victims. Here is the breakdown for victim #2
VICTIM 2

Count 7: Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse
Verdict: Not guilty.

Count 8: Indecent assault
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 9: Unlawful contact with minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 10: Corruption of minors
Verdict: Guilty.

Count 11: Endangering welfare of children
Verdict: Guilty.

[Lt. Dish]

Do people still believe that Paterno was the most powerful person at Penn State? Any power he had was given to him from the Board of Trustees who made millions upon millions more than he did. The same board members who were on the board of the Second Mile. If these people wanted Sandusky to have access to campus facilities, there isn't anything Paterno or any other person at PSU could do.

I don't believe their was some conspiracy though. The unfortunate fact is that Sandusky fooled everyone into believing that he was looking out for these kids. He built himself up so well that you could look past some of his questioable behavior especially when the government agencies had vouched for him.

The closest anyone came to discovering his true identity was McQuery. If you actually read all of his testimony though, you get the sense that he might have never actually saw anything. At least his Dad and family friend weren't concerned enough to advise him to call the police. He has also gone on record as saying that Paterno handled the situation as best as he could with the way he (McQuery) conveyed it.

The BoT intensely disliked Paterno. For years.

Paterno intensely disliked and actively avoided Sandusky. For years, as in well before the original allegations in 1998.

The BoT gave Sandusky access to facilities and professor emeritus status. Paterno argued against it because Sandusky was no longer on staff. The BoT told him to pound sand. So he retreated further into the "Fine, well then I'm just going to be the football coach" posture. Still raised funds for the school, though.

I care about the focus on Paterno not because I care about some legacy, or the wins, or the stupid statue. Because I don't. I care that the biggest question in this entire case, and the one most bandied about in the media is "Joe knew, right?" Because putting the focus on the victims involves asking a different question. if you're really trying to analyze the heart of the issue and educate the public about the realities of child sexual assault, then you really should be asking, "How did Sandusky get away with it for all those years?" They're two very different questions. One reflects an ignorance that it's easy to spot a child predator, and the other challenges the public to redirect their outrage into learning more about how these monsters hide in plain sight. That's not "defending" Paterno; it's focusing on what matters, and I addressed that in my deleted post. Spoiler for space:

Spoiler:

I make a point of this because I know of what I speak. I was fooled in this regard by someone I knew. It humbles you as it shakes you to the core. It kills me that no one is focusing on how child predators get away with it, fooling everyone in their orbit and manipulating public perception of them. My face is 1,000 degrees on this issue.

And equating approval of restoring the wins to condoning child sexual assault is baiting and insulting. And if it's meant to be insulting, then what's the point of that? How is that productive and not needlessly combative?

To those outraged by (and to others exultant in) the NCAA's reversal, I say: Who the hell cares? Do you really think the victims feel whole if the local university football team does or doesn't appear in a 3rd-tier corporatized event? Do you think they sleep better with the knowledge that the guy who wasn't actually the guy who traumatized them has or doesn't have his paper records altered?

Regarding the truth I still seek, I want to know what all of the emails say. I want the Centre County CYS, the PA State Police, the Second Mile, the schools the victims attended, and Tom Corbett to be investigated. Where the hell were these people? Why is no one investigating them? Why is no one focusing on the timeline of events? Again, it's not about defending Paterno; it's about understanding the totality of the case. More importantly, it's about preventing this from happening elsewhere. We shouldn't settle for just having enough information to form opinions about Joe Freakin' Paterno and the PSU football program.

I'm tired of the incoherent ethical relativism: Well, maybe the NCAA overreached and was wrong, but it doesn't compare to what happened to the victims. For God's sake. Of course it doesn't, nor should it. They're two different things and should be treated as such. One is meaningless and overemphasized, and the other is critical and underemphasized. Guess which one is which.

[Crankshaft]

Lt. Dish comes across as genuine and has the right priorities in line. And not one student blog was linked in her response.

[columbia]

This place is like Shutter Island.

[Lt. Dish]

I should add that some - those with extraordinary power - failed more than others.

And, if you count the media, those with extraordinary power are still failing them.

The list of people and entities is long.

[tjand72]

PSU agreed to the "settlement" terms. Whether people like those terms or not is of little consequence. Did the acting board accept the penalties? Yes. Did they have the authority to do so? Yes, to my knowledge. Was it a hasty decision? Probably.

PSU willingly accepted sanctions. Yes? If so, they need to shut it and move on.

There are no (or should be no) take-backs.

[Lt. Dish]

Lt. Dish comes across as genuine and has the right priorities in line. And not one student blog was linked in her response.

That's the intent. Thank you for recognizing it.

[Sam's Drunk Dog]

Lt. Dish does a much better job explaining how I feel than I could ever hope to, and does it eloquently.

[tifosi77]

I wish Lt Dish was the face of the PSU world instead of John Ziegler....... cos he's a burlap sack of

PSU agreed to the "settlement" terms. Whether people like those terms or not is of little consequence. Did the acting board accept the penalties? Yes. Did they have the authority to do so? Yes, to my knowledge. Was it a hasty decision? Probably.

PSU willingly accepted sanctions. Yes? If so, they need to shut it and move on.

There are no (or should be no) take-backs.

A key point here is that in the wake of the JS indictment both the BoT (at the time) and the NCAA acted in ways that were beyond either's authorized capacity. That's why all of this stuff happenened this week. And there's a reason why the PSU BoT looks different today than it did in the immediate aftermath and why there are calls for the NCAA leadership to resign. (And it's important to note that in the case of the latter they're not just emanating from the rabid denizens of Happy Valley)

[Lt. Dish]

John Zeigler, imo, is part of the noise: Outrage in response to outrage. I don't like his style. I'll hold my nose and grant him the general point, however, that ESPN has been crap in reporting the case from the very beginning.

This is the network that brought us "The Decision," gives Skip Bayless a platform, and stamps a million+ PSU students, alumni, and supporters around the world with looping video of two moronic (and drunk?) townie kids trying to flip a TV van. This is the network that proselytizes about "the influence of football culture" while following Tim Tebow practically to the men's room, getting in bed with the SEC, nationally broadcasting high school football games, and showing segments of pressers featuring 17-year-old football players ending torturous suspense by putting on a cap. We could go on.

And no one has ever paused, even for a nanosecond, to consider substance vis-à-vis sensationalism of their reporting.

On that note, I think I'm tapped out here, at least until the Curley/Schultz/Spanier trials, the delays of which I've found infuriating.

[columbia]

Taking away the wins was a bizarre tactic, as it always is.

Having said that, there are way too many people who lead you believe that it (the restoration) is somehow an indicator that Penn State didn't fail in the matter.