Jake to Carolina

[lemieuxReturns]

I am not upset with this return. My hope is that Dubas continues with this thought process though. Trading away Jake for this sort of return, but continuing to treat this team as a contender would be a mistake. Continue the sell off, use this summer to pick up some cheap, late late late UFA guys to one year deals. Then sell off more at the next deadline, and then in the summer of 25, re-evaluate and see if we need another year to keep rebuilding.

[KG]

Make it to the cup finals Jake. Get the Pens the first round pick and we’ll see you July 1st on UFA day!

Basically the perfection situation lol

[DelPen]

Since the Canes don’t have an AHL affiliate Ty Smith is being loaned back to WBS for the rest of the season.

That's really weird that the Canes don't have an AHL affiliate.

It sucks. They did have the Checkers here in Charlotte.

The issues I think were the current owner is from Houston and I suspect had plans to move them there but then they got good and now can’t. In the meantime they stopped associating with Charlotte, Vegas bought San Antonio to move to Henderson so Florida affiliated with Charlotte after no longer having San Antonio available. Wolves have been independent forever and were working with Vegas until they bought San Antonio.

And then Canes started working with the Wolves but that turned sour for reasons I haven’t looked into so they are in a position now the Pens were in when they were dealing with Cleveland in the IHL who wouldn’t play younger players because they were independent and then they shared Syracuse with Edmonton for a season before they had WBS.

31 AHL teams are owned by 31 NHL teams, Canes and Wolves are the two outliers.

In any case, Ty Smith at least has being on the Canes taxi squad after his season is done and I would assume they would wait until WBS playoffs are done if they can stay in the picture.

[pens_CT]

I am not upset with this return. My hope is that Dubas continues with this thought process though. Trading away Jake for this sort of return, but continuing to treat this team as a contender would be a mistake. Continue the sell off, use this summer to pick up some cheap, late late late UFA guys to one year deals. Then sell off more at the next deadline, and then in the summer of 25, re-evaluate and see if we need another year to keep rebuilding.

Nobody here knows the potential of these picks. We can complain that they weren't in the Hurricanes top 4 or whatever. You read the analysis of the "experts" and they aren't terrible but they're not glowing either. I am sure if you read the analysis of Guentzel or Rust when they were prospects they weren't glowing either. As I mentioned in another thread the thought we were going to pick up a couple of significant pieces for a rebuild in exchange for a rental was delusional. When you're trading a rental at the deadline, the odds are not in your favor. It's been that way since the NHL started with the salary cap. Hopefully they can move Smith foe a pick or two. I doubt they're done yet.

[lemieuxReturns]

I am not upset with this return. My hope is that Dubas continues with this thought process though. Trading away Jake for this sort of return, but continuing to treat this team as a contender would be a mistake. Continue the sell off, use this summer to pick up some cheap, late late late UFA guys to one year deals. Then sell off more at the next deadline, and then in the summer of 25, re-evaluate and see if we need another year to keep rebuilding.

Nobody here knows the potential of these picks. We can complain that they weren't in the Hurricanes top 4 or whatever. You read the analysis of the "experts" and they aren't terrible but they're not glowing either. I am sure if you read the analysis of Guentzel or Rust when they were prospects they weren't glowing either. As I mentioned in another thread the thought we were going to pick up a couple of significant pieces for a rebuild in exchange for a rental was delusional. When you're trading a rental at the deadline, the odds are not in your favor. It's been that way since the NHL started with the salary cap. Hopefully they can move Smith foe a pick or two. I doubt they're done yet.

Yea, I agree. In my amateur opinion, MP should be a chip traded away this deadline. He is NOT a rental. And if the point is to maximize the return and make as fast of a rebuild as possible, trading him would make sense. Basically, do not wait until next deadline to trade him if you are not re-signing him.

[the riddler]

I don't understand some of the outrage with this trade. Maybe because Bunting was involved but what they received prospect wise is not far off what the market was. They essentially get two 2nd round players (Ponomarev and Koivunen), either a late first/mid 2nd round pick in this year's draft, a 4th round player (Lucius), and a conditional 5th. That's really not far off the return for Lindholm and Hanifin. A guaranteed first rounder would have been nice, but you're talking a very late pick.

I actually don't mind adding Bunting. Let's be honest, they aren't going to completely tear it down with Crosby, Malking, Letang, EK here so they're still going to keep some good players around them. Whether you agree with that approach is a different story but that is the direction they're going. If they can move Smith's contract, that opens up a decent amount of cap space next year. Assume that they would've spent around $14-15 million with Guentzel ($9-10) and Smith ($5). They now have Bunting (4.5) and could have around $10 million to play with. I don't hate that if it's spent wisely.

[pronovost19]

We got some prospects. What has this organization done lately to develop these type of tweener players? Will the Pens actually bring these guys along and insert them in the lineup? None of the so called prospects move the needle in our organization. Especially when we see that many players from our WBS team get very little opportunity to show what they can do. I get that we got what we got but the thinking does not align with the past process.

[Southern Fan]

We got some prospects. What has this organization done lately to develop these type of tweener players? Will the Pens actually bring these guys along and insert them in the lineup? None of the so called prospects move the needle in our organization. Especially when we see that many players from our WBS team get very little opportunity to show what they can do. I get that we got what we got but the thinking does not align with the past process.

Same coaches will yield same results.

[ahawk9]

I wonder sometimes if guys like Guentzel and Rust succeeded despite the team's development habits or because of them.

[Pitts]

https://triblive.com/sports/penguins-se ... aft-picks/

I'm having a hard time not liking the numbers these kids are putting up currently. Sorry, but I do not find this deal to be that bad.

[pens_CT]

I am not upset with this return. My hope is that Dubas continues with this thought process though. Trading away Jake for this sort of return, but continuing to treat this team as a contender would be a mistake. Continue the sell off, use this summer to pick up some cheap, late late late UFA guys to one year deals. Then sell off more at the next deadline, and then in the summer of 25, re-evaluate and see if we need another year to keep rebuilding.

Nobody here knows the potential of these picks. We can complain that they weren't in the Hurricanes top 4 or whatever. You read the analysis of the "experts" and they aren't terrible but they're not glowing either. I am sure if you read the analysis of Guentzel or Rust when they were prospects they weren't glowing either. As I mentioned in another thread the thought we were going to pick up a couple of significant pieces for a rebuild in exchange for a rental was delusional. When you're trading a rental at the deadline, the odds are not in your favor. It's been that way since the NHL started with the salary cap. Hopefully they can move Smith foe a pick or two. I doubt they're done yet.

Yea, I agree. In my amateur opinion, MP should be a chip traded away this deadline. He is NOT a rental. And if the point is to maximize the return and make as fast of a rebuild as possible, trading him would make sense. Basically, do not wait until next deadline to trade him if you are not re-signing him.

True he provides you steady defense, but little offense. What is that going to cost you on a contract extension? 5 million plus per season. See if you can flip him for a pick, but if there isn't a decent offer now, I would wait for around the draft to see if you could get a better deal.

[BlackNGold4Life]

Agreed CT & Riddler. Spot on in my opinion. I don’t expect a total tear down. I think they want to have eyes on the future BUT still try and remix around the core. You can’t have our HOF roster and tear it all down.

If Bunting can score 25-30 playing top 6 and PP at 4.5 - that’s huge. Plus he goes to the net and we need that. Let’s see how he meshes.

If we can move on from Smith, I think the cap space next year is gonna be favorable to get younger and deeper in hopes this shifts the team again.

Oh, and a new coaching staff would be nice -

FL Pens - we all love ya man - but I disagree with you on this. Also, you are right on the nepotism. Kyle does do this. But doesn’t mean it won’t work with Bunting. Look at the Vancouver Penguins. JR has major nepotism. Has won cups and great team this year.

[DelPen]

We got some prospects. What has this organization done lately to develop these type of tweener players? Will the Pens actually bring these guys along and insert them in the lineup? None of the so called prospects move the needle in our organization. Especially when we see that many players from our WBS team get very little opportunity to show what they can do. I get that we got what we got but the thinking does not align with the past process.

This is a valid concern. We need an entire revamp of the coaching and development organization wide. Young prospects don’t get better and even when they are among the top 9 players in camp they aren’t given a chance in the NHL. It took three years for DOC to be a regular NHL player and that’s only because he wasn’t exempt from waivers. Puustinen and Poulin should had been up all year.

Other players that had some good showings were Riikola, Hallander, Bjorkvist, Sprong, and you could even put Nylander in the group and Zohorna now twice.

All of these players were kept back by the likes of Harkins, Jankowski, Scevior, Garrett Wilson, Jack Johnson, McGinn and Heinen.

The last time we had any kind of youth injected was 2016 when Johnson was fired and Sullivan was promoted and then he brought up players he knew.

Could these guys end up being a group like Rust, Sheary, Wilson and Khunhackl were for the cup runs along with Puustinen, Poulin and Blomqvist? Talent wise maybe but we need an entire new coaching strategy or this will be a waste and delay a total rebuild of the culture for as long as Sullivan stays on this team.

[Cow_Master66]

I find the trade to overall be okay personally. I've said for weeks the return won't be the "haul" expected since he's a UFA so taking a few prospects and hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with 1 was the most likely outcome.

They need to get whatever other picks they can as well, because the cupboard is still mostly bare. Owing SJ a 1st doesn't help either.... For the 15th time, I still don't get the decision to not ask Rust to waive his NTC. It's such a bizarre approach that part of me thinks they did ask him and he said no, so they are just going with this story so the fans don't turn on him. Or they are punishing him by keeping him in the dumpster fire that is the 2024 Penguins.

Nonetheless, any and all offers should be considered across the board.

Edit: Sullivan....no reason to can him this year by any means, but at 3:01 tomorrow they should be talking to replacements for the offseason

[DelPen]

My only issue with the trade is if we were retaining any salary we should be getting an actual 1st or higher end prospect that’s NHL ready now. It’s like if we didn’t retain would would get a 3rd or something? That’s the one part I don’t understand, kind of like the extra conditional draft pick for Bemstrom, a 6th was overkill but it becoming a 3rd if he scores 6 goals was kind of stupid.

[KG]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/cutter-gauthier- ... -1.2079455

Craig Button put together a list of the top 50 affiliated prospects. Koivunen is 34 on the list. Yager isn't in his top 50. We have to see how these prospects play out obviously.

[Pens4Life]

I don't understand some of the outrage with this trade. Maybe because Bunting was involved but what they received prospect wise is not far off what the market was. They essentially get two 2nd round players (Ponomarev and Koivunen), either a late first/mid 2nd round pick in this year's draft, a 4th round player (Lucius), and a conditional 5th. That's really not far off the return for Lindholm and Hanifin. A guaranteed first rounder would have been nice, but you're talking a very late pick.

I actually don't mind adding Bunting. Let's be honest, they aren't going to completely tear it down with Crosby, Malking, Letang, EK here so they're still going to keep some good players around them. Whether you agree with that approach is a different story but that is the direction they're going. If they can move Smith's contract, that opens up a decent amount of cap space next year. Assume that they would've spent around $14-15 million with Guentzel ($9-10) and Smith ($5). They now have Bunting (4.5) and could have around $10 million to play with. I don't hate that if it's spent wisely.

They traded Ty Smith, not Reilly Smith.. yet at least! We dont have potential 10M cap space for next season for now..

[Pens4Life]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/cutter-gauthier- ... -1.2079455

Craig Button put together a list of the top 50 affiliated prospects. Koivunen is 34 on the list. Yager isn't in his top 50. We have to see how these prospects play out obviously.

I'm most optimistic about Koivunen at this stage.. he is having pretty solid year in Finland.

[Three Stars]

I'm sorry, but looking at players like Nylander and Zohorna and then complaining that the coaching staff was holding them back is revisionist history of the highest order. We're also apparently still relitigating Daniel Sprong even though he washed through several organizations and got us Marcus Petterson.

[penny lane]

Coach will be happy with his new 5'9" player.

[Guinness]

Bunting can play net front on the power play.

Wait, what? There are players who'll play on the power play who go to the front of the net?

Will Sullivan even allow that?

[brwi]

I'm a little less enthused about Ponomarev. He's about to turn 22, only has gotten into 2 NHL games, and has good, not great, stats in the AHL. I know Carolina has been a good team the past few years, but you'd think if he did have a higher upside, he would have gotten a bit more of a run with the big club, even if just filling in for injured guys. Again, just speculating based on very little info, but my gut feeling is that his upside is more bottom-6 or even just NHL/AHL tweener.

The Canes have had 4 healthy centers almost all season so Ponomarev only got called up for 2 games. I watched both of those and he definitely looked NHL ready, besides also scoring a goal. Carolina plays man-to-man up and down the ice which some players have a real problem adjusting to(Bunting would be the most obvious), but Ponomarev looked like a veteran and very solid two-way. His numbers before the NHL indicate he's not going to put up big offense numbers, but as a 4C he could contribute to the Pens immediately and he might reach the 3C level.

The other prospects are kind of a wait and see how they develop. The one area they all seem to have in common is that they are rather average skaters and the Pens definitely need some more good skaters as they're pretty old and slow these days. Bunting isn't old but his skating is average at best which is why he was a defensive liability in Carolina.

[Puck-Lurker]

More moves needed. Any of the older bottom six folks for picks, please.

Also, fire Sullivan.

[Admin]

Dejan seems happy.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2024 ... -column-dk

[maopens]

Bunting is going to get trashed by Penguins Fandom because he's not Guentzel.

That said, if the Pens can get the same production from him by playing him with talented players that Toronto did, that can only be a good thing.

Bunting can play net front on the power play.

Bunting "could" play net front on the power play IF the Pens deployed a net front presence on the power play. Sadly, they don't, so he won't.

How is his wrister from 35 feet?