2024 Rookie/Training Camp Thread

[bse]

I do wonder if some of the lack of hype surrounding Murashov outside Pittsburgh is due to Russia being something of a black box at this point, especially after the Ukraine invasion. People are probably wary of traveling to Russia and skeptical about any drafted Russian player actually being able to come over, so they it's not worth it to try to get super knowledgeable about Russian prospects, and Russia might just be less well-scouted than it was before.

Now, we're getting some eye-witness reports that he looks like the real deal, but I can see why that hasn't filtered out yet to national media. I also think it's telling that (according to a Russian-language interview he did that I read somewhere...forget where) the Pens told him he'd be in the AHL this year. As we've talked about, Gauthier and Larsson are not total scrubs, and if he's getting elevated above them already, that shows the organization sees something with him.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised at the Murashov to AHL...but it's a good thing for the org. It's not a good thing for Gauthier and Larsson. Because they often play 3 days in a row on the weekend, they'll likely need a 3rd AHL goalie...but he should be just that...a career AHLer on an AHL only deal. I would not be surprised to see Gauthier get moved at some point. Either thrown in a deal or an AHLer for AHLer type of swap. He has nothing to prove at the ECHL level, and with the clock ticking on him, waiting it out in the ECHL isn't really good for his career.

Few years back it was quite common to loan players. Especially goalies. There were some agreements where half of the team could have been built in cooperation, like the Syracuse Crunch case back in time. The Edmonton Oilers, in 2006 or so, loaned a lot of players to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. Guys like Rob Schremp and Marc-Antoine Pouliot played for our minor-league affiliate. Goalies also, did you know that Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers, Nolan Schaefer and Devan Dubnyk, all Oilers property, played for WBS?

Anyway, two years ago we loaned Jan Drozg to Grand Rapids, the Red Wings AHL affiliate. When Ty Smith was traded to Hurricanes, he remained in WBS.

That said, do you see a possibility of Gauthier being loaned to an AHL franchise? He has no business left in ECHL.

[FLPensFan]

I do wonder if some of the lack of hype surrounding Murashov outside Pittsburgh is due to Russia being something of a black box at this point, especially after the Ukraine invasion. People are probably wary of traveling to Russia and skeptical about any drafted Russian player actually being able to come over, so they it's not worth it to try to get super knowledgeable about Russian prospects, and Russia might just be less well-scouted than it was before.

Now, we're getting some eye-witness reports that he looks like the real deal, but I can see why that hasn't filtered out yet to national media. I also think it's telling that (according to a Russian-language interview he did that I read somewhere...forget where) the Pens told him he'd be in the AHL this year. As we've talked about, Gauthier and Larsson are not total scrubs, and if he's getting elevated above them already, that shows the organization sees something with him.

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised at the Murashov to AHL...but it's a good thing for the org. It's not a good thing for Gauthier and Larsson. Because they often play 3 days in a row on the weekend, they'll likely need a 3rd AHL goalie...but he should be just that...a career AHLer on an AHL only deal. I would not be surprised to see Gauthier get moved at some point. Either thrown in a deal or an AHLer for AHLer type of swap. He has nothing to prove at the ECHL level, and with the clock ticking on him, waiting it out in the ECHL isn't really good for his career.

Few years back it was quite common to loan players. Especially goalies. There were some agreements where half of the team could have been built in cooperation, like the Syracuse Crunch case back in time. The Edmonton Oilers, in 2006 or so, loaned a lot of players to Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. Guys like Rob Schremp and Marc-Antoine Pouliot played for our minor-league affiliate. Goalies also, did you know that Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers, Nolan Schaefer and Devan Dubnyk, all Oilers property, played for WBS?

Anyway, two years ago we loaned Jan Drozg to Grand Rapids, the Red Wings AHL affiliate. When Ty Smith was traded to Hurricanes, he remained in WBS.

That said, do you see a possibility of Gauthier being loaned to an AHL franchise? He has no business left in ECHL.

I asked Taylor Haase about this whenever Murashov officially signed. The short answer was very likely, no. Is it allowed? Yes. The biggest problem, especially for a goalie, is that you have no guarantee how the other team is going to manage his workload, and you don't have your goalie development coaches around them. Typically, teams loaning players to other AHL teams these days is more about not having an AHL team of their own. A few teams have changed AHL franchises over the past few years, and in those transitions, they've often scattered their players.

I don't think any of the 4 goalies truly belong in Wheeling:
--Blomqvist, his numbers were top 5 in the AHL last season. No reason to go to Wheeling.
--Gauthier was ECHL goalie of the year. He played their and had great numbers. He needs to play in the AHL to advance his game.
--Larsson left Europe to come play here. Very highly unlikely he left Europe to be playing in the ECHL
--Murashov...I would kind of be ok with him starting in Wheeling if it meant getting a lot of starts, but, the quality of competition isn't that high. Starting in that low level league could delay his improvement.

The solutions I see, in terms of most likely to least likely:
--Blomqvist and Murashov start in the AHL; Larsson and Gauthier start in the ECHL.
--Blomqvist and Murashov start in the AHL; Larsson starts in the ECHL; Gauthier is traded in a larger trade (Acciari?) or for another low level prospect
--Blomqvist and Murashov start in the AHL; Larsson also starts in the AHL as the 3rd goalie, getting maybe 20% of the starts. Gauthier traded or ECHL.
--Jarry traded; Blomqvist to NHL; Murashov 50% of AHL starts, Larsson and Gauthier 25% each of AHL starts

[largegarlic]

The best solution to the goalie glut seems like a trade, but it would also not be ideal to trade one of the younger guys before you really know what you have in all of them. Unless there's a deal that's too good to pass up, I might favor hanging onto all of them for at least half the season to see how things shake out, even if the workload for all of the minor league guys isn't optimal.

[Puck-Lurker]

I think we're stuck with Jarry. There are some reasons that's okay, which I thought DK addressed well on his blurb today. Expanding on that:

- If you ignore Jarry's contract value (5.375M x 4 at this point)
- If you ignore that Jarry was going to be "the guy", your "number one" and your "franchise goaltender"
- If you ignore some of the recency bias -- his disappointing latter halves of the season and so on.
- Jarry is a nice enough NHL goalie that you can start against anyone and be kinda okay.
- Jarry can win you games, he has the talent and has shown he can apply it.
- Jarry by all accounts is easy to get along with -- I can't begin to tell you how valuable that quality is for a goalie. Also no drama for getting sidelined that I've ever heard of.
- Jarry can play ~50 or split down the middle with a 1B type -- that other goalie (Ned) gets the opportunity to better than the sum of his parts.

It's not that bad.. except... he holds about 2M of cap space hostage. Except he's collapsed a few times before; been a head case that D can't trust enough. Except he's just not going to be a full-on, undisputed first goalie. This all made it necessary that Dubas resign Nedeljkovic (I LIKE and approve of that signing, don't get me wrong), but if Jarry was more and better, you could have let Ned go and played Blomqvist/Murashov/Larsson/Gauthier there. To save cap space and use that elsewhere.

I'd be fine shipping Jarry out, but there won't be takers that will offer a deal that doesn't straight up hurt the team. It's like Graves, you're stuck with him and you better make the best of it. If our four non-NHL goalies all want to stay and compete, let's go. Keep 'em all and see what you got before anyone gets traded.

Just a wild option they'll never ever even consider, much less go for:

Start the season with 13F-7D-3G. The best of the three gets to stay up, they fight it out who looks best.. then if Jarry or Ned is the odd man out, look for a trade (deadline?) or when a team runs into a rash of goalie injuries, if Jarry, maybe even consider waiving. If it's the 3rd goalie, they are waivers exempt anyway. You could even rotate more than one goalie in, they all have 9 games to burn unless I'm mistaken.

NO WAY though. Not with the mass of bottom 6'ers we are carrying.

[bse]

One option would be to see through the first 10 games and trade Nedeljkovic. Having such a logjam of NHL-ready goalies isn't something we are really accustomed to. Someone always gets injured and teams overpay for a backup.

[FLPensFan]

I think we're stuck with Jarry. There are some reasons that's okay, which I thought DK addressed well on his blurb today. Expanding on that:

- If you ignore Jarry's contract value (5.375M x 4 at this point)
- If you ignore that Jarry was going to be "the guy", your "number one" and your "franchise goaltender"
- If you ignore some of the recency bias -- his disappointing latter halves of the season and so on.
- Jarry is a nice enough NHL goalie that you can start against anyone and be kinda okay.
- Jarry can win you games, he has the talent and has shown he can apply it.
- Jarry by all accounts is easy to get along with -- I can't begin to tell you how valuable that quality is for a goalie. Also no drama for getting sidelined that I've ever heard of.
- Jarry can play ~50 or split down the middle with a 1B type -- that other goalie (Ned) gets the opportunity to better than the sum of his parts.

It's not that bad.. except... he holds about 2M of cap space hostage. Except he's collapsed a few times before; been a head case that D can't trust enough. Except he's just not going to be a full-on, undisputed first goalie. This all made it necessary that Dubas resign Nedeljkovic (I LIKE and approve of that signing, don't get me wrong), but if Jarry was more and better, you could have let Ned go and played Blomqvist/Murashov/Larsson/Gauthier there. To save cap space and use that elsewhere.

I'd be fine shipping Jarry out, but there won't be takers that will offer a deal that doesn't straight up hurt the team. It's like Graves, you're stuck with him and you better make the best of it. If our four non-NHL goalies all want to stay and compete, let's go. Keep 'em all and see what you got before anyone gets traded.

Just a wild option they'll never ever even consider, much less go for:

Start the season with 13F-7D-3G. The best of the three gets to stay up, they fight it out who looks best.. then if Jarry or Ned is the odd man out, look for a trade (deadline?) or when a team runs into a rash of goalie injuries, if Jarry, maybe even consider waiving. If it's the 3rd goalie, they are waivers exempt anyway. You could even rotate more than one goalie in, they all have 9 games to burn unless I'm mistaken.

NO WAY though. Not with the mass of bottom 6'ers we are carrying.

I still keep looking at Vancouver. They have a really strong team, but their goalie is a mess with constant injuries. Demko is a much better goalie when healthy...but over the last 3 years, he's actually played 9 to 11 less regular season games than Jarry. My buddy in Vancouver balked when I proposed Demko and a 3rd for Jarry and a 2nd. I get that Demko is the better goalie...but he's not healthy. So does Vancouver sit and continue to wait on Demko, and for Demko to sink their season if he gets injured again late in the season (good chance with his history). Jarry having familiarity with Tocchet, Rutherford and Allvin, plus his hometown less than an hour outside of Vancouver might inspire him.

Otherwise, if Jarry flounders again this season, I'm almost fine with just waiving him to the AHL and hoping someone takes him, or calls about a cheap trade for him, just to get his cap off the books.

[FLPensFan]

One option would be to see through the first 10 games and trade Nedeljkovic. Having such a logjam of NHL-ready goalies isn't something we are really accustomed to. Someone always gets injured and teams overpay for a backup.

The thing is, Jarry is not much better than Nedeljkovic at this point, and Ned is almost 3M cheaper. Really doesn't make much sense to move Ned.

[bse]

One option would be to see through the first 10 games and trade Nedeljkovic. Having such a logjam of NHL-ready goalies isn't something we are really accustomed to. Someone always gets injured and teams overpay for a backup.

The thing is, Jarry is not much better than Nedeljkovic at this point, and Ned is almost 3M cheaper. Really doesn't make much sense to move Ned.

Perhaps, but we can not move Jarry. We could move Nedeljkovic. If for nothing else, but to make room for our promising younger goalies.

[Daniel]

I think we're stuck with Jarry. There are some reasons that's okay, which I thought DK addressed well on his blurb today. Expanding on that:

- If you ignore Jarry's contract value (5.375M x 4 at this point)
- If you ignore that Jarry was going to be "the guy", your "number one" and your "franchise goaltender"
- If you ignore some of the recency bias -- his disappointing latter halves of the season and so on.
- Jarry is a nice enough NHL goalie that you can start against anyone and be kinda okay.
- Jarry can win you games, he has the talent and has shown he can apply it.
- Jarry by all accounts is easy to get along with -- I can't begin to tell you how valuable that quality is for a goalie. Also no drama for getting sidelined that I've ever heard of.
- Jarry can play ~50 or split down the middle with a 1B type -- that other goalie (Ned) gets the opportunity to better than the sum of his parts.

It's not that bad.. except... he holds about 2M of cap space hostage. Except he's collapsed a few times before; been a head case that D can't trust enough. Except he's just not going to be a full-on, undisputed first goalie. This all made it necessary that Dubas resign Nedeljkovic (I LIKE and approve of that signing, don't get me wrong), but if Jarry was more and better, you could have let Ned go and played Blomqvist/Murashov/Larsson/Gauthier there. To save cap space and use that elsewhere.

I'd be fine shipping Jarry out, but there won't be takers that will offer a deal that doesn't straight up hurt the team. It's like Graves, you're stuck with him and you better make the best of it. If our four non-NHL goalies all want to stay and compete, let's go. Keep 'em all and see what you got before anyone gets traded.

Just a wild option they'll never ever even consider, much less go for:

Start the season with 13F-7D-3G. The best of the three gets to stay up, they fight it out who looks best.. then if Jarry or Ned is the odd man out, look for a trade (deadline?) or when a team runs into a rash of goalie injuries, if Jarry, maybe even consider waiving. If it's the 3rd goalie, they are waivers exempt anyway. You could even rotate more than one goalie in, they all have 9 games to burn unless I'm mistaken.

NO WAY though. Not with the mass of bottom 6'ers we are carrying.

I still keep looking at Vancouver. They have a really strong team, but their goalie is a mess with constant injuries. Demko is a much better goalie when healthy...but over the last 3 years, he's actually played 9 to 11 less regular season games than Jarry. My buddy in Vancouver balked when I proposed Demko and a 3rd for Jarry and a 2nd. I get that Demko is the better goalie...but he's not healthy. So does Vancouver sit and continue to wait on Demko, and for Demko to sink their season if he gets injured again late in the season (good chance with his history). Jarry having familiarity with Tocchet, Rutherford and Allvin, plus his hometown less than an hour outside of Vancouver might inspire him.

Otherwise, if Jarry flounders again this season, I'm almost fine with just waiving him to the AHL and hoping someone takes him, or calls about a cheap trade for him, just to get his cap off the books.

Ned might have more value because of his contract and has shown he can be 1B if necessary. Trade Ned to Vancouver at the deadline (or Dec/Jan) and go with Jarry/Blomqvist. See about trading Jarry next offseason and go with Blomqvist/one of the other 3 left. Might be easier to trade Jarry with one less year on his contract, Ned has a lower salary/term and might help Vancouver.

[KG]

Pens playing Buffalo. Tied at 3. Avery Hayes with the HT...

[Tico Rick]

Winger for Sid!

[KG]

Koivunen twisted wrister. Pens up 4-3.

[FLPensFan]

Penguins win this, they win the tournament as the only undefeated team. NJ was undefeated but lost to Boston this morning. I would also say today's win would be a "bigger" one, as the Buffalo announcers mentioned in the beginning of the game, this Buffalo team is a bit older. Many of their guys, this will be their last rookie tournament. On paper, I think Buffalo would be considered to have the better prospects in this game.

Edit: Also, the "goalie logjam" issues may have already started, as Taylor Gauthier was furious and slammed his stick at the bench after being pulled for the mid-game goalie switch to Murashov at the half way point. In the tournament, Murashov played 1 full game and 2 half games. Gauthier played 2 half games. Not sure if the plan was for him to come out on a switch today or not, but he didn't seem happy.

[FLPensFan]

Broz makes it 6-4 on a nice feed from Koivunen.

[KG]

Koivunen with a great sauce pass to Broz. Broz with the nice finish. Pens up 6-4.

[FLPensFan]

Logan Pietila (Pee-et-tula) makes it 7-4.

[KG]

McGroarty just finished off a 2-1. One-time rip. Pens up 8-5

[Tico Rick]

One option would be to see through the first 10 games and trade Nedeljkovic. Having such a logjam of NHL-ready goalies isn't something we are really accustomed to. Someone always gets injured and teams overpay for a backup.

The thing is, Jarry is not much better than Nedeljkovic at this point, and Ned is almost 3M cheaper. Really doesn't make much sense to move Ned.

Perhaps, but we can not move Jarry. We could move Nedeljkovic. If for nothing else, but to make room for our promising younger goalies.

Easiest just to wait a few months. Between now and December, somebody's #1 goalie will either get a major injury or seriously underperform, and then we unload Jarry.

[Puck-Lurker]

The real question.. which Hayes do we want on the roster?

[Pens4Life]

Gauthier frustration is understandable... He knows at the moment he is heading back to ECHL,which he doesnt need or deserve.. I hope Dubas sort out some trade for him alongside maybe Nieto or Acciari..

Also Larsson will be pissed to come from Europe, being best goalie in Swedish league,then being stuck in poor ECHL. I still think this was really dumb move from KD and also Larsson's agent. Why sign with Pens?? Who have a glut of goalies.. but on other side Larsson was signed in April 2024, Ned re-signed 2 months later, maybe Pens thought they wont be able to re-sign Ned.

[Puck-Lurker]

Gauthier frustration is understandable... He knows at the moment he is heading back to ECHL,which he doesnt need or deserve.. I hope Dubas sort out some trade for him alongside maybe Nieto or Acciari..

Also Larsson will be pissed to come from Europe, being best goalie in Swedish league,then being stuck in poor ECHL. I still think this was really dumb move from KD and also Larsson's agent. Why sign with Pens?? Who have a glut of goalies.. but on other side Larsson was signed in April 2024, Ned re-signed 2 months later, maybe Pens thought they wont be able to re-sign Ned.

It's good for Pens, not necessarily the goalies. It's all cause and effect starting with Jarry not performing in the end.

Look.. if Gauthier is better than 3 of Larsson, Blomqvist and Murashov, he moves up. Sucks for him, but we want competition don't we? DeSmith came through Wheeling too.

Larsson signed his contract with his mental faculties in tact, he knew Jarry would be there most likely and an NHL level backup and Blomqvist. Murashov was drafted in 22. It's not like this was some big secret. Ideally, Jarry is solid and doesn't necessitate Ned resigning, but he wasn't.

[FLPensFan]

Gauthier frustration is understandable... He knows at the moment he is heading back to ECHL,which he doesnt need or deserve.. I hope Dubas sort out some trade for him alongside maybe Nieto or Acciari..

Also Larsson will be pissed to come from Europe, being best goalie in Swedish league,then being stuck in poor ECHL. I still think this was really dumb move from KD and also Larsson's agent. Why sign with Pens?? Who have a glut of goalies.. but on other side Larsson was signed in April 2024, Ned re-signed 2 months later, maybe Pens thought they wont be able to re-sign Ned.

It's good for Pens, not necessarily the goalies. It's all cause and effect starting with Jarry not performing in the end.

Look.. if Gauthier is better than 3 of Larsson, Blomqvist and Murashov, he moves up. Sucks for him, but we want competition don't we? DeSmith came through Wheeling too.

Larsson signed his contract with his mental faculties in tact, he knew Jarry would be there most likely and an NHL level backup and Blomqvist. Murashov was drafted in 22. It's not like this was some big secret. Ideally, Jarry is solid and doesn't necessitate Ned resigning, but he wasn't.

Forget Jarry for a minute. Bigger picture-wise, there were three main factors that created the logjam.
--There was strong talk that Nedeljkovic would be too expensive to be retained.
--There was strong indicators that Blomqvist was going to be the backup at the NHL level.
--There was zero indication that Murashov was coming to North America for the Development Camp, and definitely no idea of him signing for AHL time.

So, in April when Larsson signed, he likely had a chance to be the #1 starter in the AHL, or at least a split starter with Gauthier.
--Then WBS got bounced in the first round. This soured Dubas on promoting Blomqvist, adding another goalie to the AHL mix.
--Then Ned was brought back, which sealed up another spot at the NHL level.
--Then Murashov surprisingly came over to North America not only for Development Camp, but signed a deal to stay here in North America to play.

It's just the way things work out some times. You prepare for A, have B as a backup plan, and then C happens. Unfortunate luck for Larsson. If he's extremely upset about it, I'd be willing to be that he could request his contract be terminated. I would not doubt if Gauthier is hoping for a trade out of the system. He has to pass up Blomqvist and Murashov on the young prospect depth chart to even get a sniff of a chance. He'd be better off elsewhere.

[KG]

https://media.d3.nhle.com/image/private ... jvkoyi.pdf

Pens invite 69 players to camp. Let's go!

I see they have Hayes listed as a RW...wonder if that is the plan. He was playing with Geno during those informal skates. We shall see...

[FLPensFan]

Interesting that Gauthier is listed as injured. Taylor Haase says he played through an injury all last year. He played 2 halves in the prospect tournament, and when he came out of the last game, he was noticeably upset. I wonder if he re-aggrevated his injury, or if the Penguins told him with a crowded depth chart it was better to get his injury fixed up now.

[Daniel]

Gauthier frustration is understandable... He knows at the moment he is heading back to ECHL,which he doesnt need or deserve.. I hope Dubas sort out some trade for him alongside maybe Nieto or Acciari..

Also Larsson will be pissed to come from Europe, being best goalie in Swedish league,then being stuck in poor ECHL. I still think this was really dumb move from KD and also Larsson's agent. Why sign with Pens?? Who have a glut of goalies.. but on other side Larsson was signed in April 2024, Ned re-signed 2 months later, maybe Pens thought they wont be able to re-sign Ned.

It's good for Pens, not necessarily the goalies. It's all cause and effect starting with Jarry not performing in the end.

Look.. if Gauthier is better than 3 of Larsson, Blomqvist and Murashov, he moves up. Sucks for him, but we want competition don't we? DeSmith came through Wheeling too.

Larsson signed his contract with his mental faculties in tact, he knew Jarry would be there most likely and an NHL level backup and Blomqvist. Murashov was drafted in 22. It's not like this was some big secret. Ideally, Jarry is solid and doesn't necessitate Ned resigning, but he wasn't.

All 4 are playing both the Penguins and the rest of the NHL. If the kids pan out as expected, Larsson and Gauthier might be highly coveted players on a lot of teams, either as a starter or cheap backup. The Penguins have a ton of options, depending on if they want the over 50 game model or about 50/50 model, likely depending on the players. If Blomqvist or Murashov prove to be 60+ game workhorses, there is no need to keep the other one. That gives the Penguins a top goalie trade asset and competition for Larsson and Gauthier to be the backup for several years, next gen Jarry/DeSmith. Really good problem to have and one of the goalies might end up fixing their center prospect issues.