From a defensive standpoint, for me, the biggest problem is Karlsson. He's paid 10M by us. He is nowhere near a 10M defenseman. He's not even on Letang's level right now. That is the biggest defensive drag on this team. I do not blame Karlsson 100%. I did not expect 100 point Erik Karlsson on this team, but, he's never been good defensively. His offense generation has to outweigh his poor defensive work. Karlsson either can't, won't, or isn't allowed to play Erik Karlsson hockey, so we aren't getting what we need out of him.
The other big problem from a defenseman standpoint is, if nobody is going to clear the crease and we're just going to "front" the players...why do you think we've given up so many high danger, in tight goals against and chances against? This has been a Sullivan problem for years.
The biggest problem with Karlsson is Sullivan. I can't remember the exact quote but something like Karlsson needs to play better defense. Leave him alone, tell Pettersson to play defense and not worry about pinching and you likely solve both players.
I started to see Karlsson breaking out and rushing up a bit more against Vancouver, especially when paired out there with the 3rd or 4th line. Didn't really see it again last night. Karlsson needs to puck on his stick, rushing into the zone, and making plays from there. His offense can't just be let the forward gain the zone and hope they pass it back to him at the point.
From a defensive standpoint, for me, the biggest problem is Karlsson. He's paid 10M by us. He is nowhere near a 10M defenseman. He's not even on Letang's level right now. That is the biggest defensive drag on this team. I do not blame Karlsson 100%. I did not expect 100 point Erik Karlsson on this team, but, he's never been good defensively. His offense generation has to outweigh his poor defensive work. Karlsson either can't, won't, or isn't allowed to play Erik Karlsson hockey, so we aren't getting what we need out of him.
The other big problem from a defenseman standpoint is, if nobody is going to clear the crease and we're just going to "front" the players...why do you think we've given up so many high danger, in tight goals against and chances against? This has been a Sullivan problem for years.
The biggest problem with Karlsson is Sullivan. I can't remember the exact quote but something like Karlsson needs to play better defense. Leave him alone, tell Pettersson to play defense and not worry about pinching and you likely solve both players.
I started to see Karlsson breaking out and rushing up a bit more against Vancouver, especially when paired out there with the 3rd or 4th line. Didn't really see it again last night. Karlsson needs to puck on his stick, rushing into the zone, and making plays from there. His offense can't just be let the forward gain the zone and hope they pass it back to him at the point.
I do agree that Sullivan is the problem.
Karlsson has always been one of those defensemen that looks better with a more defensive guy and for some reason Pettersson hasn't been that guy this year.
Remember when KD said over the summer that this team with 87-71-58-65 would never be bad enough to be a bottom 5 team??
Challenge accepted!
If he forgot to say with proper coaching, he's right, but then again, Sullivan is a top 2-3 coach. Begs the question if both are right then KD is the issue.
Forget the system and players for a minute. Since 2003, Stanley Cup winning Head Coaches have an average tenure of 3.2 years with the team they won the cup with. Since 1988 the average is 3.8 years. You have to go all the way back to Glen Sather to find a coach who won a cup with a team he'd been coaching for a decade or more. Sather won it in his 8th, 9th, 11th and 12th seasons with the Oilers. Since 1988, 22 of the winners were in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year with the team. Only 11 winners had been with their team for 5 years or longer. Sather, Bowman with his second two Detroit wins coming in years 5 and 9, Quenville with his second two coming in years 5 and 7, Cooper with his two coming in years 8 and 9 and Jared Bednar winning in year 6. The bottom line, one coach in the last 36 years has won a Stanley Cup a decade into his career with that franchise. And that guy was behind the bench with the Oilers dynasty in it's prime. Their current situation may or may not be Sullivan's fault, but there's no recent example of a franchise sticking with a guy this long as being the answer in terms of turning anything around.
Forget the system and players for a minute. Since 2003, Stanley Cup winning Head Coaches have an average tenure of 3.2 years with the team they won the cup with. Since 1988 the average is 3.8 years. You have to go all the way back to Glen Sather to find a coach who won a cup with a team he'd been coaching for a decade or more. Sather won it in his 8th, 9th, 11th and 12th seasons with the Oilers. Since 1988, 22 of the winners were in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year with the team. Only 11 winners had been with their team for 5 years or longer. Sather, Bowman with his second two Detroit wins coming in years 5 and 9, Quenville with his second two coming in years 5 and 7, Cooper with his two coming in years 8 and 9 and Jared Bednar winning in year 6. The bottom line, one coach in the last 36 years has won a Stanley Cup a decade into his career with that franchise. And that guy was behind the bench with the Oilers dynasty in it's prime. Their current situation may or may not be Sullivan's fault, but there's no recent example of a franchise sticking with a guy this long as being the answer in terms of turning anything around.
Forget the system and players for a minute. Since 2003, Stanley Cup winning Head Coaches have an average tenure of 3.2 years with the team they won the cup with. Since 1988 the average is 3.8 years. You have to go all the way back to Glen Sather to find a coach who won a cup with a team he'd been coaching for a decade or more. Sather won it in his 8th, 9th, 11th and 12th seasons with the Oilers. Since 1988, 22 of the winners were in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year with the team. Only 11 winners had been with their team for 5 years or longer. Sather, Bowman with his second two Detroit wins coming in years 5 and 9, Quenville with his second two coming in years 5 and 7, Cooper with his two coming in years 8 and 9 and Jared Bednar winning in year 6. The bottom line, one coach in the last 36 years has won a Stanley Cup a decade into his career with that franchise. And that guy was behind the bench with the Oilers dynasty in it's prime. Their current situation may or may not be Sullivan's fault, but there's no recent example of a franchise sticking with a guy this long as being the answer in terms of turning anything around.
Forget the system and players for a minute. Since 2003, Stanley Cup winning Head Coaches have an average tenure of 3.2 years with the team they won the cup with. Since 1988 the average is 3.8 years. You have to go all the way back to Glen Sather to find a coach who won a cup with a team he'd been coaching for a decade or more. Sather won it in his 8th, 9th, 11th and 12th seasons with the Oilers. Since 1988, 22 of the winners were in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year with the team. Only 11 winners had been with their team for 5 years or longer. Sather, Bowman with his second two Detroit wins coming in years 5 and 9, Quenville with his second two coming in years 5 and 7, Cooper with his two coming in years 8 and 9 and Jared Bednar winning in year 6. The bottom line, one coach in the last 36 years has won a Stanley Cup a decade into his career with that franchise. And that guy was behind the bench with the Oilers dynasty in it's prime. Their current situation may or may not be Sullivan's fault, but there's no recent example of a franchise sticking with a guy this long as being the answer in terms of turning anything around.
This is really thorough and well-argued, good stuff!
I would also add, we know that when the Pens fire their coach (recently), they nearly always win the Cup (except for that hiccup with Johnston). It's just science!
Forget the system and players for a minute. Since 2003, Stanley Cup winning Head Coaches have an average tenure of 3.2 years with the team they won the cup with. Since 1988 the average is 3.8 years. You have to go all the way back to Glen Sather to find a coach who won a cup with a team he'd been coaching for a decade or more. Sather won it in his 8th, 9th, 11th and 12th seasons with the Oilers. Since 1988, 22 of the winners were in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd year with the team. Only 11 winners had been with their team for 5 years or longer. Sather, Bowman with his second two Detroit wins coming in years 5 and 9, Quenville with his second two coming in years 5 and 7, Cooper with his two coming in years 8 and 9 and Jared Bednar winning in year 6. The bottom line, one coach in the last 36 years has won a Stanley Cup a decade into his career with that franchise. And that guy was behind the bench with the Oilers dynasty in it's prime. Their current situation may or may not be Sullivan's fault, but there's no recent example of a franchise sticking with a guy this long as being the answer in terms of turning anything around.
That's good stuff. Thanks!
To add a little more here. Jon Cooper is the only NHL coach who's been with the same team longer than Mike Sullivan. Of the four most tenured coaches, Sullivan is the only one to have not won a playoff series since 2019/20 and the only one to miss the playoffs in that same time period. Since 2019/20 Cooper has won 11 series and 2 Cups. Jared Bednar has won 7 series and a Cup. Rod Brind'Amour has won 5 series and advanced to the conference finals once. Every other coach in the league was hired for their current job between 2021-2024.
Eh. I stopped taking it seriously 2 paragraphs in when I was "Nobody questions whether Sullivan is a good coach. He is. He might be the best coach in Penguins history."
Ooooooo-k. Sorry but plenty of people do, he isn't, and he definitely isn't.
Eh. I stopped taking it seriously 2 paragraphs in when I was "Nobody questions whether Sullivan is a good coach. He is. He might be the best coach in Penguins history."
Ooooooo-k. Sorry but plenty of people do, he isn't, and he definitely isn't.
I've finally come around. I think Sullivan arguably is the best Penguin coach, or at least in the conversation for top two.
However, every coach has a shelf life. That's the reality we're facing. Is he the right coach for this team? No.
The question then becomes, "how long do they keep him with the team performing so poorly?"
Maybe, they ultimately do what the Sharks did last season—let him finish the season (likely missing the postseason) and let him go in the offseason.
Then, the question becomes, "who do you replace him with?" That's maybe a bigger dilemma. I suppose that would depend on whether they let go of the entire staff or transition to Quinn or Velucci as the new head coach.
Eh. I stopped taking it seriously 2 paragraphs in when I was "Nobody questions whether Sullivan is a good coach. He is. He might be the best coach in Penguins history."
Ooooooo-k. Sorry but plenty of people do, he isn't, and he definitely isn't.
I think he'd be successful somewhere else, he's a good coach for 2-3 years, LIKE MOST COACHES. The problem is his longevity and his system doesn't stand the test of time.
I think if Sullivan went to an average team, he'd produce nothing (just like he's done here with average to below average teams for years and years) and I think 50 50 he'd be out of the league within 5 years, Disco Dan style.
Sullivan doesn't want a fast player to play his speed game.
Didn't read the article, but I'd put Puljujärvi on either Geno's or Sid's RW. Instead he gets scratched... Okay? The dude's maybe the fastest in town and has the hockey IQ
Sullivan doesn't want a fast player to play his speed game.
Didn't read the article, but I'd put Puljujärvi on either Geno's or Sid's RW. Instead he gets scratched... Okay? The dude's maybe the fastest in town and has the hockey IQ
Sullivan doesn't want a fast player to play his speed game.
Didn't read the article, but I'd put Puljujärvi on either Geno's or Sid's RW. Instead he gets scratched... Okay? The dude's maybe the fastest in town and has the hockey IQ
I love how the bleacher report article of coaches on hot seats lists Jim Montgomery... you basically set NHL records for success 15 minutes ago and now 30 seconds into the season, your team is struggling so you better worry about your job. Yet somehow....
Last edited by Antonio on Wed Nov 06, 2024 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sullivan doesn't want a fast player to play his speed game.
Didn't read the article, but I'd put Puljujärvi on either Geno's or Sid's RW. Instead he gets scratched... Okay? The dude's maybe the fastest in town and has the hockey IQ
How hard was that? Sorry Anthony Fiftyteams, sit your ass on the bench.
Right? This lineup seems so obvious. Maybe medically they need to watch Puljujarvi ice time, but that seems unlikely and doesn’t seem apparent with his performance.
Sullivan doesn't want a fast player to play his speed game.
Didn't read the article, but I'd put Puljujärvi on either Geno's or Sid's RW. Instead he gets scratched... Okay? The dude's maybe the fastest in town and has the hockey IQ
How hard was that? Sorry Anthony Fiftyteams, sit your ass on the bench.
Right? This lineup seems so obvious. Maybe medically they need to watch Puljujarvi ice time, but that seems unlikely and doesn’t seem apparent with his performance.
I think a year post-surgery, Puljujarvi is 100%. He's one of the fastest guys on the team this year. Rust appears to be close to returning...so then what? I too like the DOC-Eller-Puljujarvi line, but, are they going to remove Rakell off a working line? Are they going to be willing to put Rust on the "3rd line?"
They need more from Glass. Penguins are only 3 goals ahead of their 18th overall goal total last year. He's playing well positionally and defensively, but, he needs to put some pucks in the net. Sullivan also has to figure out how to build a defensively sound AND NOT SLOW 4th line.
