2024-2025 Season Random Penguins Fodder

[100565]

I’m still optimistic.

98 points. 3rd in Metro.

LGP!

[Pitts]

I’m still optimistic.

98 points. 3rd in Metro.

LGP!

I'm in agreement. They will prove everyone wrong this season - especially if they correct that horrid powerplay from last season.

[FLPensFan]

I can't find where the DK article went, but, 3 or 4 different Penguins plus Sullivan all pointed to a the April 1st game in Madison Square Garden as to when they really got their crap together. I think at that time, they stopped pouting over losing Guentzel, and they started getting back to playing as 5 man units, aggressive forechecking, etc.

They finished 6-2-1 on the season from that game on. Eller, I think Pettersson, one or two others plus Sullivan all pointed to that game without being prompted or hearing the others talk about that game. It just came a bit too late.

I am encouraged by what I saw with the 3rd and 4th lines and the PP. Those are 2 huge areas that have been a problem for a few years now. I think we have a lot more depth and flexibility to move guys all over the lineup. I'm not banking on them making the playoffs, but I actually have a stronger feeling about this team than the teams of the last 2 years.

[Pitts]

I did a time-waster to wind down my day. Here is my list of all ex-Pen players that have been waived during this years camps:

Mark Friedman
Ty Smith
Matt Murray (yes, the Toronto one, although the Nashville version was waived weeks ago)
Zach Aston-Reese (claimed by Columbus)
Magnus Hellberg
Jansen Harkins
Nathan Legare
Louis Domingue
Vinnie Hinostroza
Derrick Pouliot
Anthony Angello

[FLPensFan]

Earlier today in WBS land...

[Dynasty1970]

I’m still optimistic.

98 points. 3rd in Metro.

LGP!

I'm in agreement. They will prove everyone wrong this season - especially if they correct that horrid powerplay from last season.

Define insanity please.

[Puck-Lurker]

I’m still optimistic.

98 points. 3rd in Metro.

LGP!

I'm in agreement. They will prove everyone wrong this season - especially if they correct that horrid powerplay from last season.

Define insanity please.

"a state of mind that impedes the ability to think, reason, or behave in ways that are considered normal, esp. one caused by mental illness"

PP will be better, almost definitionally. ME3? I dunno, maybe?

[Daniel]

I’m still optimistic.

98 points. 3rd in Metro.

LGP!

I'm in agreement. They will prove everyone wrong this season - especially if they correct that horrid powerplay from last season.

Define insanity please.

"a state of mind that impedes the ability to think, reason, or behave in ways that are considered normal, esp. one caused by mental illness"

PP will be better, almost definitionally. ME3? I dunno, maybe?

Honestly if the PP was just bad they'd have 10 more points which would be 98 total. Not sure that gets them 3rd, that would depend on the other teams, but I can see that for sure.

[Dynasty1970]

I’m still optimistic.

98 points. 3rd in Metro.

LGP!

I'm in agreement. They will prove everyone wrong this season - especially if they correct that horrid powerplay from last season.

Define insanity please.

"a state of mind that impedes the ability to think, reason, or behave in ways that are considered normal, esp. one caused by mental illness"

PP will be better, almost definitionally. ME3? I dunno, maybe?

Lets check the trend for the Penguins the last 5 years or so......
19-20 19.9%
20-21 19.9%
21-22 19.1%
22-23 18.7%
23-24 15.3%
24-25 ??

What has changed that gives you any optimism?
Just how much improvement can be expected? Do you anticipate it approaching 25% ??
Those are the numbers. We have been underperforming for years. This falls squarely on the Head Coach to correct!

FIRE SULLY NOW!

[largegarlic]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

[Pitts]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

[KG]

This team appears to have a different feel to it than last season. Last season they were garbage in the pre-season and played horribly at that Kraft game in Sid's hometown. Rumors were he wasn't pleased with that performance.

This year they appear to be focused and more driven to succeed. The bottom 6 has been injected with more skill and youth. If they could get off to a good start and get the power play going, it would go a long way as a confidence boost.

I am usually optimistic, but I expect this team to be better than the prognosticators suggest.

[100565]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

I’ll drive the fire Sully bus! Nothing against him-just seems stale.

In fairness though, from 2013 through 2021 (9 drafts) Poulin and Kapanen were the only two first round selections. Both were given a chance. During those years, the Pens have gone for cups - they made trade deadline deals which included many first round picks. Ya cannot trade all those picks and then complain about lack of youth- IMO.

Guentzel and Rust are the outliers. Most third round picks have minimal impact in the NHL - same with second round (but a little better than third round picks).

[Puck-Lurker]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

Don't mention Sprong. I'm dutch and I'll cry.

Looks like they hit on Pickering and Brunicke. I'll take good news where I can get it. Some useful prospects in the system, too. As for the past, we've been in a trade everything to win now mode. I will not complain about two cups, but there's a reason we took on the contracts of Glass and Hayes and it's not they're great players, though they may be useful yet.

[DeHaven162]

I did a time-waster to wind down my day. Here is my list of all ex-Pen players that have been waived during this years camps:

Mark Friedman
Ty Smith
Matt Murray (yes, the Toronto one, although the Nashville version was waived weeks ago)
Zach Aston-Reese (claimed by Columbus)
Magnus Hellberg
Jansen Harkins
Nathan Legare
Louis Domingue
Vinnie Hinostroza
Derrick Pouliot
Anthony Angello

Not waived, but remember when the sky was falling because we let POJ walk, and then signed for less than a million with the Blues?! Yeah, healthy scratch in game one for the Blues.

[FLPensFan]

Welcome to the show, kid...

[largegarlic]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

Yeah, I'm not saying that there aren't good reasons for this, but this evidence just backed up my intuition that it was really rare for a 20-year-old to be in the Pens lineup. And indeed, we haven't had anyone this young in the lineup since Sprong 9 years ago.

[Daniel]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

I think it's a little bit of that, a little bit of development, and an unwillingness to live through rookie growing pains. It's almost like if they draft bad, the player fails. If they draft good, the development fails. If they do both well they aren't given much of an opportunity to play through mistakes. They would almost have to be drafting by throwing a dart at a wall of players in order to have this little draft impact over the past what 10 years (can't remember when Simon was drafted).

Just by accident they'd find the next Rust or the next Guentzel. Neither of them were really blue chip prospects but they were both given a good opportunity and moved from the bottom 6 to playing with Crosby. When was the last player you can honestly say was given the same opportunities lately, where they can play through mistakes and grow into a pretty good player? Maybe Marino?

[Puck-Lurker]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

I think it's a little bit of that, a little bit of development, and an unwillingness to live through rookie growing pains. It's almost like if they draft bad, the player fails. If they draft good, the development fails. If they do both well they aren't given much of an opportunity to play through mistakes. They would almost have to be drafting by throwing a dart at a wall of players in order to have this little draft impact over the past what 10 years (can't remember when Simon was drafted).

Just by accident they'd find the next Rust or the next Guentzel. Neither of them were really blue chip prospects but they were both given a good opportunity and moved from the bottom 6 to playing with Crosby. When was the last player you can honestly say was given the same opportunities lately, where they can play through mistakes and grow into a pretty good player? Maybe Marino?

Simon was drafted in the 5th round, 2015. Made his debut in march 2016, age 21. He had two great seasons with the org, then fell off a cliff, bounced around a little, then went back to Czechia. If anything the Pens stuck with Simon too much.

Drafting:
- 2024 draft: Howe is promising, Brunicke wowed a bunch of people. Dubas mentioned Finn Harding, but I can't say I remember much from him in camp.
- 2023 draft: Pieniniemi has a contract, the rest of this class are just uninteresting at this point. Yager of course got swapped out for RMG but would've made the NHL, doesn't count.
- 2022 draft: Pickering, Murashov. Rest is a nothing burger.
- 2021 draft: Broz, Belliveau and a bunch of nothing.
- 2020 draft: Blomqvist and nothing else to look at.

Say that's maybe 5-6 useful NHL calibre players out of 5 draft classes? Seems low.

We have scooped up loose bits and bobs to compensate, undrafted FAs, change of scenery players, long shot low cost high reward guys.

[Dynasty1970]

Welcome to the show, kid...

Thanks for that POST FLPensFan! That was awesome to see. I'm rooting for that kid!

[FLPensFan]

Crosby, Letang, and Sullivan:
--don't believe that Sullivan is getting stale as a coach
--doesn't believe that this still isn't a fast team
--don't believe that they haven't adjusted their game since 2017

https://triblive.com/sports/wont-change ... arratives/

[Daniel]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

I think it's a little bit of that, a little bit of development, and an unwillingness to live through rookie growing pains. It's almost like if they draft bad, the player fails. If they draft good, the development fails. If they do both well they aren't given much of an opportunity to play through mistakes. They would almost have to be drafting by throwing a dart at a wall of players in order to have this little draft impact over the past what 10 years (can't remember when Simon was drafted).

Just by accident they'd find the next Rust or the next Guentzel. Neither of them were really blue chip prospects but they were both given a good opportunity and moved from the bottom 6 to playing with Crosby. When was the last player you can honestly say was given the same opportunities lately, where they can play through mistakes and grow into a pretty good player? Maybe Marino?

Simon was drafted in the 5th round, 2015. Made his debut in march 2016, age 21. He had two great seasons with the org, then fell off a cliff, bounced around a little, then went back to Czechia. If anything the Pens stuck with Simon too much.

Drafting:
- 2024 draft: Howe is promising, Brunicke wowed a bunch of people. Dubas mentioned Finn Harding, but I can't say I remember much from him in camp.
- 2023 draft: Pieniniemi has a contract, the rest of this class are just uninteresting at this point. Yager of course got swapped out for RMG but would've made the NHL, doesn't count.
- 2022 draft: Pickering, Murashov. Rest is a nothing burger.
- 2021 draft: Broz, Belliveau and a bunch of nothing.
- 2020 draft: Blomqvist and nothing else to look at.

Say that's maybe 5-6 useful NHL calibre players out of 5 draft classes? Seems low.

We have scooped up loose bits and bobs to compensate, undrafted FAs, change of scenery players, long shot low cost high reward guys.

- 2023 draft: 2 in the top 4 rounds
- 2022 draft: the players in this draft are barely 20 and only 2 in the top 4 rounds. Plante is still in college, Collins is an overager in the OHL, and Devlin is in the NCAA. Really I'd say at this point only 1 is a miss (Collins) and the others haven't turned pro, but again rounds 5-7.
- 2021 draft: everyone else was a 7th round pick. Not sure what we could expect from this draft.
- 2020 draft: Clang got traded for Rakell, Svejkovsky was traded to the Lightning, the others were low round picks (5th/6th)

A lot of the Penguins draft picks are not only low in the round but also low in the draft. Lot of 7th round picks. This is not a sustainable tactic. 5-6 useful player out of 11 drafted in the 1st 4 rounds is quite high. There's a reason why NHL players drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th round are such good stories.

While I don't disagree that the drafting and scouting can be better, when over 50% of your draft is below the 4th round and you have about 50% hit in the top 4 rounds, up to now? That's not terrible.

[Puck-Lurker]

I had remarked a couple days ago that it was unusual in this era of Pens hockey to see someone like McGroarty jump right from college to the NHL lineup. Pensburgh today, in their game preview, says that McGroarty is the 9th youngest player to make his debut in the Crosby era. The next person younger than him is Sprong back in 2015(!?). That really underlines how few good, young players have come into the organization in this era (or how opposed to young guys Sullivan is, if you want to spin it that way).

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

I think it's a little bit of that, a little bit of development, and an unwillingness to live through rookie growing pains. It's almost like if they draft bad, the player fails. If they draft good, the development fails. If they do both well they aren't given much of an opportunity to play through mistakes. They would almost have to be drafting by throwing a dart at a wall of players in order to have this little draft impact over the past what 10 years (can't remember when Simon was drafted).

Just by accident they'd find the next Rust or the next Guentzel. Neither of them were really blue chip prospects but they were both given a good opportunity and moved from the bottom 6 to playing with Crosby. When was the last player you can honestly say was given the same opportunities lately, where they can play through mistakes and grow into a pretty good player? Maybe Marino?

Simon was drafted in the 5th round, 2015. Made his debut in march 2016, age 21. He had two great seasons with the org, then fell off a cliff, bounced around a little, then went back to Czechia. If anything the Pens stuck with Simon too much.

Drafting:
- 2024 draft: Howe is promising, Brunicke wowed a bunch of people. Dubas mentioned Finn Harding, but I can't say I remember much from him in camp.
- 2023 draft: Pieniniemi has a contract, the rest of this class are just uninteresting at this point. Yager of course got swapped out for RMG but would've made the NHL, doesn't count.
- 2022 draft: Pickering, Murashov. Rest is a nothing burger.
- 2021 draft: Broz, Belliveau and a bunch of nothing.
- 2020 draft: Blomqvist and nothing else to look at.

Say that's maybe 5-6 useful NHL calibre players out of 5 draft classes? Seems low.

We have scooped up loose bits and bobs to compensate, undrafted FAs, change of scenery players, long shot low cost high reward guys.

- 2023 draft: 2 in the top 4 rounds
- 2022 draft: the players in this draft are barely 20 and only 2 in the top 4 rounds. Plante is still in college, Collins is an overager in the OHL, and Devlin is in the NCAA. Really I'd say at this point only 1 is a miss (Collins) and the others haven't turned pro, but again rounds 5-7.
- 2021 draft: everyone else was a 7th round pick. Not sure what we could expect from this draft.
- 2020 draft: Clang got traded for Rakell, Svejkovsky was traded to the Lightning, the others were low round picks (5th/6th)

A lot of the Penguins draft picks are not only low in the round but also low in the draft. Lot of 7th round picks. This is not a sustainable tactic. 5-6 useful player out of 11 drafted in the 1st 4 rounds is quite high. There's a reason why NHL players drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th round are such good stories.

While I don't disagree that the drafting and scouting can be better, when over 50% of your draft is below the 4th round and you have about 50% hit in the top 4 rounds, up to now? That's not terrible.

Drafting depends on having picks. Thing I was trying to say, we don't carry our draft picks from selection to playing.

And you're right, we traded a bunch for players.

[Daniel]

3 factors:
They've been picking very late in the rounds due to constant playoffs until recently.
They traded away numerous first/second round picks to keep competitive.
They have a HORRID drafting record. Need to simply draft better.

I think it's a little bit of that, a little bit of development, and an unwillingness to live through rookie growing pains. It's almost like if they draft bad, the player fails. If they draft good, the development fails. If they do both well they aren't given much of an opportunity to play through mistakes. They would almost have to be drafting by throwing a dart at a wall of players in order to have this little draft impact over the past what 10 years (can't remember when Simon was drafted).

Just by accident they'd find the next Rust or the next Guentzel. Neither of them were really blue chip prospects but they were both given a good opportunity and moved from the bottom 6 to playing with Crosby. When was the last player you can honestly say was given the same opportunities lately, where they can play through mistakes and grow into a pretty good player? Maybe Marino?

Simon was drafted in the 5th round, 2015. Made his debut in march 2016, age 21. He had two great seasons with the org, then fell off a cliff, bounced around a little, then went back to Czechia. If anything the Pens stuck with Simon too much.

Drafting:
- 2024 draft: Howe is promising, Brunicke wowed a bunch of people. Dubas mentioned Finn Harding, but I can't say I remember much from him in camp.
- 2023 draft: Pieniniemi has a contract, the rest of this class are just uninteresting at this point. Yager of course got swapped out for RMG but would've made the NHL, doesn't count.
- 2022 draft: Pickering, Murashov. Rest is a nothing burger.
- 2021 draft: Broz, Belliveau and a bunch of nothing.
- 2020 draft: Blomqvist and nothing else to look at.

Say that's maybe 5-6 useful NHL calibre players out of 5 draft classes? Seems low.

We have scooped up loose bits and bobs to compensate, undrafted FAs, change of scenery players, long shot low cost high reward guys.

- 2023 draft: 2 in the top 4 rounds
- 2022 draft: the players in this draft are barely 20 and only 2 in the top 4 rounds. Plante is still in college, Collins is an overager in the OHL, and Devlin is in the NCAA. Really I'd say at this point only 1 is a miss (Collins) and the others haven't turned pro, but again rounds 5-7.
- 2021 draft: everyone else was a 7th round pick. Not sure what we could expect from this draft.
- 2020 draft: Clang got traded for Rakell, Svejkovsky was traded to the Lightning, the others were low round picks (5th/6th)

A lot of the Penguins draft picks are not only low in the round but also low in the draft. Lot of 7th round picks. This is not a sustainable tactic. 5-6 useful player out of 11 drafted in the 1st 4 rounds is quite high. There's a reason why NHL players drafted in the 5th, 6th, 7th round are such good stories.

While I don't disagree that the drafting and scouting can be better, when over 50% of your draft is below the 4th round and you have about 50% hit in the top 4 rounds, up to now? That's not terrible.

Drafting depends on having picks. Thing I was trying to say, we don't carry our draft picks from selection to playing.

And you're right, we traded a bunch for players.

Then let my post be a continuation of yours as it seems we were making the same points.

[FLPensFan]

"Guys, I just want to play somewhere. Will someone make up their mind, please!!!"



If this seems odd, this is the situation that Hextall tried to avoid a few years ago with Zohorna, but in a different way. The summary for those that may not get what is happening:

--Edmonton waives Lavoie to send to the AHL.
--Vegas claims him. Vegas either needs to keep him on the NHL roster, or waive him again.
--Vegas elects to waive him again.
--Edmonton claims him back. The rule says if you reclaim your waived player, they can be sent directly to the AHL ONLY IF another team didn't also put in a waiver claim.
--Edmonton waives Lavoie again (which means someone else besides EDM put in a claim, and EDM tries to send him to the AHL again, needing waivers)
--Vegas claims him again.

This guy is gonna end up like Tom Hanks in the movie The Terminal, just constantly living on waivers. Hopefully the NHL/CBA has something to stop this from being an endless cycle.