Super Bowl XLIX - Seahawks v. Patriots

[LeopardLetang]

The Lynch run on first down started with 1:06 on the clock. The interception was at :26. The people saying they had to throw in order to stop the clock at some point ignore that they let so much time run off between the plays. That skews any "analysis" defending the play call.

Agreed. But letting the clock run was smart. Don't give Brady a minute if you run it in on second. Instead take that away but throw it once if you have to. I take that option.

[ulf]

As the Deadspin article points out, you have to throw "analytics" out the window a little bit when you have Marshawn freaking Lynch. If the Pats were in that exact same situation, I would have had zero issues with the playcall because their running game is very meh and unproven, especially in that game. But....Lynch

Not that I agree with the call.. But Lynch was only 1 for 5 from the 1 this year. Hardly a given

[MWB]

Yeah, but Brady wouldn't be able to throw it downfield far enough to get them in field goal range.

I agree, letting time run was smart. Run on second. Fade or play action on third. Run fourth.

[DudeMan2766]

Yeah, but Brady wouldn't be able to throw it downfield far enough to get them in field goal range.

He's basically Jay Fiedler with a really good coach.

[LeopardLetang]

Yeah, but Brady wouldn't be able to throw it downfield far enough to get them in field goal range.

I agree, letting time run was smart. Run on second. Fade or play action on third. Run fourth.

I believe that had they run on second they would have scored and was obviously the best option. But passing on second was a better option than passing on third when it would have been expected. But by goly run play action at least. It utilizes deceit, someone could be wide open, Wilson could run it in. My distaste for fades is probably a Rothlisberger thing. Wilson looks good at it and that receiver could have been mvp had it worked on third down.

Anyway I'm not saying it wasn't a bad play call. It was, and in the biggest moment. But I think Belicheck's response to it in the post game interview was an honest response. He didn't hold back a chuckle or give a politically correct response to try not to trash Carroll. Gotta be ready for anything there. He probably was hoping they'd try to run it in with a minute left.

[MalkinIsMyHomeboy]

My biggest problem with the call is the fact that they took the ball out of their best player's hands and expected something from a nobody (Lockette). If it was Demaryius or Megatron or Dez I wouldn't have any problem with that pass because they would never let the DB intercept it. They would make a play and at least make it an incompletion.

But you're expecting an inexperienced and not too talented receiver to make a play in the biggest moment of his life vs. giving the ball to the best power rusher in the league who has proven to be a clutch player.

It just annoys me. At a certain point analytics mean nothing.

[shafnutz05]

That's the other thing too. As I40 and others pointed out, if it was a fade route to that tall phenom WR, I'm a little more OK with it. But what an unnecessarily high risk play.

That doesn't have to take away from the fact that Butler made an incredible big-moment play. He did. But it never needed to happen.

[columbia]

I think it's funny that most ignore the preceding events: that was the luckiest reception ever (and please spare me any arguments that Kearse was displaying any level of skill). Were it not for that, none of this discussion is happening. Football is a crazy game, but please don't pretend that Seattle blew the game. It unfolded as it did and that's about it.

[LeopardLetang]

On another note, in the second half I found myself rooting for the patriots for the first time I can remember. As a typical Steelers fan, yes I hate the patriots. But being proud of the Steelers past dominant defenses where teams were as likely to lose a yard as gain one rushing on first down, yet always being dismantled by the patriots devastating short passing game, I didn't want to see the Seahawks D overcome it.

I was never happier though than when the giants D did. They were not quite ever in discussion as greatest D in this era. They were just built perfectly to defeat the patriots. The Steelers had been built perfectly to beat any offense except the patriots short passing aka running game.

[LeopardLetang]

I think it's funny that most ignore the preceding events: that was the luckiest reception ever (and please spare me any arguments that Kearse was displaying any level of skill). Were it not for that, none of this discussion is happening. Football is a crazy game, but please don't pretend that Seattle blew the game. It unfolded as it did and that's about it.

But that's the thing. It seemed written that they would win after that ridiculous catch. Then to not run it in with Lynch to win to complete the perfect story is the burning of the book, your xbox crashing and you haven't saved since you started the playoffs. And it was the arfing patriots. White rage at the call.

[mikey287]

I think it's funny that most ignore the preceding events: that was the luckiest reception ever (and please spare me any arguments that Kearse was displaying any level of skill). Were it not for that, none of this discussion is happening. Football is a crazy game, but please don't pretend that Seattle blew the game. It unfolded as it did and that's about it.

So there was no chance they couldn't have moved the ball down the field otherwise? It's not like that catch - as unlikely as it was - was on fourth down or anything...there was a lot of game still left then...

[DudeMan2766]

And if the Seahawks score that touchdown, theres still time left for the Patriots to win it. Not much time, but the interception that actually happened was a hell of a lot less likely than any other scenario of the Pats scoring had they got the ball back.

Ive seen people argue against Brady's MVP as if that INT doesn't happen we aren't even discussing Brady. Well no sh*t. And if Brady doesn't throw 4 TDs, the Seahawks are kneeling on the ball and Russell Wilson doesn't throw at all

[jf]

The 538 article defending it gets the timing wrong. I really don't think they would have had to throw at all. They let quite a bit of time run off between first and second down that they didn't need to.

I have to agree with you here. I actually think Belicheck schooled Carrol by not calling time out . I think Carrol was expecting Belicheck to call time out after the first down run . Then when the clock started to run down Carrol panicked. Bellicheck had the proper run defense in and for Carrol to change , he would have had to use his last time out with 26 seconds left. Wilson screwed up too , because all he had to do was throw the ball through the uprights and he would still have had two plays left . In the end , the better coached team won .

[shafnutz05]

since a bunch of yinz sports fans are in here, is the ESPN Insider package worth it?

[count2infinity]

I read an article the other day that said the pass on the 1yd line wasn't a terrible call. Apparently 5 times this year the Seahawks have been on the one yard line and gave the ball to Lynch... he scored only once. If it's me, I still hand that ball off every time.

[Pavel Bure]

since a bunch of yinz sports fans are in here, is the ESPN Insider package worth it?

I'm guessing about as worth it as Dejan's site

[shmenguin]

a few things about that call...

-the odds of an interception happening were probably comparable to the odds of lynch fumbling
-lynch is a great back. he's not a great goal line back
-lynch was stuffed just an hour or so earlier in a similar defensive formation
-it was more a great play be NE than it was a bad play by SEA

with that said...still a stupid call of course. i think it's overblown, though.

also, belichick letting the clock run was THE worst coaching move of the game, if not the season, considering the stakes. there is no way to spin that one, other than he F'd up.

[Rocco]

The 538 article defending it gets the timing wrong. I really don't think they would have had to throw at all. They let quite a bit of time run off between first and second down that they didn't need to.

I have to agree with you here. I actually think Belicheck schooled Carrol by not calling time out . I think Carrol was expecting Belicheck to call time out after the first down run . Then when the clock started to run down Carrol panicked. Bellicheck had the proper run defense in and for Carrol to change , he would have had to use his last time out with 26 seconds left. Wilson screwed up too , because all he had to do was throw the ball through the uprights and he would still have had two plays left . In the end , the better coached team won .

Belichick trusted the worst part of his team (his goal line defense, which had been bad all year) rather than make moves to give his HOF QB a chance to win the game. He gambled and it worked. Just because it worked doesn't mean we have to engage in logic-torturing exercises to prove it was somehow the right call. Sometimes you win in poker by playing a crappy hand and hitting the cards you need.

[shmenguin]

you can trust your goal line defense AND give your HOF QB a chance to win the game.

objectively, the correct move is to use your timeouts and give your team the ball back with time on the clock. there is no other justifiable decision. it's not a movie. you don't use it as an opportunity to play mind games with the other coach.

[dodint]

Throwing the ball into the most congested part of the field when the secondary is pressed to the goal line has the same odds of turnover as Lynch running? Poor Lynch, no faith.

[Rocco]

since a bunch of yinz sports fans are in here, is the ESPN Insider package worth it?

I say yes- it doesn't cost a whole lot and there are some worthwhile articles.

[count2infinity]

Throwing the ball into the most congested part of the field when the secondary is pressed to the goal line has the same odds of turnover as Lynch running? Poor Lynch, no faith.

I don't think anyone is saying the call was correct, just merely saying it's not nearly as terrible as some try to make it seem.

[shmenguin]

Throwing the ball into the most congested part of the field when the secondary is pressed to the goal line has the same odds of turnover as Lynch running? Poor Lynch, no faith.

it's very rare to see interceptions in that spot. fumbles are rare too, of course. dude made an unreal break on that pass. a one-in-a-hundred break. that needs to be taken into consideration. replay it over and over, and in almost every scenario, the hawks have the lead or a 3rd and goal from the 1 with twenty something seconds left.

and if they stuffed lynch on the 3rd and goal, you better believe the evil genius on new england's sideline is calling a timeout right away.

[Idoit40fans]

1. Throwing to the middle on the goal line is asking for an int unless you have a giant te that can completely box someone out.

2. Why would they call a timeout with a stop on third. The pats obviously were letting the clock run.

[shmenguin]

1. Throwing to the middle on the goal line is asking for an int unless you have a giant te that can completely box someone out.

2. Why would they call a timeout with a stop on third. The pats obviously were letting the clock run.

1) it's a pretty safe bet that you could count the number of interceptions this year on quick slants from the goal line on one hand. i'd wager one finger, actually

2) because belichick would finally realize that he needs time to get the ball back.