Karlsson to PIT

[IntangibleBeer]

Question. If he unloaded JC somehow, does that automatically make him the greatest GM in pens history regardless of any future mistakes?

Probably. At least as far as this board is considered.

But he's doing a pretty good job right now. I don't think he's reached Craig Patrick's level quite yet.

Let's see what the retooled Penguins do in the post-season first.

By the way, I am over the moon with what Dubas has accomplished so far.

[Antonio]

Yeah I would say if nothing else, at this point on paper the team looks a lot more interesting to watch come opening day. We'll see.

[Pitts]

Final post from me tonight. I'm trying to remember the last defenseman that had this type of shot from the blue line...probably Gonchar. He's got the puck handling ability of Letang and then some, but more importantly, he's got a wrister and slapper that can score from a distance.

Bonus edit: Can you imagine sending Crosby, Letang, and Karlsson over the board in a shootout? Or how much it means to be able to have Letang as the lone d-man in OT for one set of forwards, and Karlsson over the board for the next set? Scary.

Here's all his goals from last season:

I love Letang. Love him. But those wrist shots from the point that get through traffic are just a skill he doesn't have. Regularly shoots it off defenders shins.

Holy moly are those smooth shots.

Sooooo excited for next season!

[FLPensFan]

So, I'm no Jesse Marshall, or anyone else that is able to break down film really well, but, I decided to go back and look at a couple of Sharks games to take a look at the "downside" of Karlsson, his defense.

I chose 5 games to review game highlights for SJ, and I chose these 5 games because Karlsson was a -3 in all 5 games. All 5 games are linked below if anyone wants to take a look at them.

--10-15-22 against Chicago,

Spoiler:

--12-31-22 against Dallas

Spoiler:

--2-9-23 against Florida

Spoiler:

--4-8-23 against Edmonton

Spoiler:

--4-13-23 against Edmonton

1) In the Chicago game, I didn't notice Karlsson being blatantly bad defending on the goals he was on for. 2 of them were SHG by...gasp...Sam Lafferty. Karlsson was either left alone, or just scrambled defense by SJ altogether because of the shorty chance. Another one, Karlsson got turned around at his own blueline because his teammates gave the puck away. The 4th one, he backoff the player coming down the slot and tried to stick block the shot or breakup the pass, but instead the player just...scored. Nothing in this game I saw where I was like "Wow, that IS really bad defending."

2) First goal against with EK on the ice, he had his man but was late to tie up his stick. He had a bad giveaway that led to a failed 2-1...last Stars player essentially had an open net but puck bounced over stick. Two Sharks forwards made consecutive turnovers at the red line on the PP leading to a SHG against; Karlsson was waiting for a pass at the red line with his other teammates. ENG led to his 3rd minus.

3) First minus against, EK makes a good play at the red line to force the puck back into Florida zone. Florida gets it up quickly to Reinhart, who has a 2-2 with EK slightly trailing, BUT, the other defenseman Harrington (yeah, the former Penguin) turns to cheat towards the other Florida forward, already covered by the other SJ forward. EK is able to get a half-stick check from behind on Reinhart, but Reinhart snaps a shot that beats the goalie. Poor play by Harrington, poor goaltending...Karlsson had help back, they just played it very poorly all around. 2nd minus, bad luck not bad positioning...puck just eludes EK at the red line along the boards...he beats FLA forward to the puck but can only get a weak clear attempt off the boards. SJ had numbers back 3 vs 2, but again, Harrington decides to overload 2 on 1 with EK, completely ignoring that there are 2 more FL forwards about to enter the zone. When EK can't clear, FL passes right to the open late man that Burroughs should have been covering. Harrington completely focuses on the trailer he should have been covering from the outset, yet totally ignores that he is also closest to the man he attempted to overload. Trailer passes back to him all alone for redirect goal. Final minus was a bad giveaway by EK on a PP with the goalie pulled at the end of the game that led to ENG.

4) First minus, EDM is flying, McDavid beats EK to the net but pushes shot wide. SJ looked like Penguins defense, completely losing track of who is covering who, and an Oiler is wide open where EK just was. Technically, EK's man was McDavid and someone else should have picked up the trailer that got a wide open goal to score on. 2nd minus, giveaway by EK on the PP at the top of the circles leads to 3-1 breakaway SHG by EDM. 3rd minus, 5-1 game late in the 3rd, EK has his man Kane at the blue line, but other d-man gets beat by McDavid 40 feet from EK for breakaway goal.

5) First minus, EK establishes good position at low side of faceoff circle, but overcommits and gets walked by Matias Janmark, leading to the goal. Poor play by EK there. 2nd minus, SHG breakaway by EDM...EK got a piece on the below the goal outlet pass by EDM, but not enough to break up the play. Not his fault. 3rd minus, Evander Kane slips into a soft spot. EK was there but technically not his man. Kane responsibility more on forward and other d-man who let him drift into the slot, and other d-man appeared to have been clipped in the face and was out of sync.

Overall, there were very few goals against in the series above where Karlsson was truly at fault with poor defense. One or two. Another one or two giveaways. The rest, I really thought were just horrible coverage by his teammates. Harrington had blinders on half the time with no awareness of anything he wasn't directly looking at in that split second.

The other thing I noticed...man, would I have loved to have found a way to get Barbanov in the EK deal. Maybe we can go after him at the trade deadline. In the goals for SJ in these 5 games, there were a lot of hookups between EK and Barbanov, and Barbanov was very noticeable most games.

[Sams_Dog]

Question. If he unloaded JC somehow, does that automatically make him the greatest GM in pens history regardless of any future mistakes?

It would be really hard to top Craig Patrick who, although his later years were not great because if bad moves and a cash-strapped team, pretty much batted a thousand on moves in one calendar year and won a Cup (1990-91) and steered the ship to another Cup through a LOT of adversity in the next year. in 1990-91 he hired the perfect coach, a lengendary director of player personnel, brought in four Hall of Famers, and drafted probably the best European player ever. Also made about three other moves that worked out great. It turned the whole culture of the franchise around from a team that found a way to lose to a potential dynasty. in two years. Dubas is off to a good start for sure. I like what he's done. But he's got a long way to go to top that. If you want a good read about the 92 Cup team check out "Best in the Game" by Dave Molinari. That team went through some serious adversity.

[Antonio]

I was here for CP. It was a little tongue in cheek humor about Dubas.

[FLPensFan]

There was a press conference scheduled today to introduce Karlsson, but it has been postponed. (media says nothing to worry)

[FLPensFan]

Continuing to look at some numbers on Karlsson...last year, Kris Letang had one game where he played 30+ minutes. Karlsson had 7 games of 30+ minutes last season, with his tops being 34:12 in a 3-2 shootout win against Minnesota and 33:46 in a 6-5 OT loss to Columbus.

[Antonio]

There was a press conference scheduled today to introduce Karlsson, but it has been postponed. (media says nothing to worry)

He has already injured himself? Twisted his ankle going to get Primanti Bros.

[IntangibleBeer]

Question. If he unloaded JC somehow, does that automatically make him the greatest GM in pens history regardless of any future mistakes?

It would be really hard to top Craig Patrick who, although his later years were not great because if bad moves and a cash-strapped team, pretty much batted a thousand on moves in one calendar year and won a Cup (1990-91) and steered the ship to another Cup through a LOT of adversity in the next year. in 1990-91 he hired the perfect coach, a lengendary director of player personnel, brought in four Hall of Famers, and drafted probably the best European player ever. Also made about three other moves that worked out great. It turned the whole culture of the franchise around from a team that found a way to lose to a potential dynasty. in two years. Dubas is off to a good start for sure. I like what he's done. But he's got a long way to go to top that. If you want a good read about the 92 Cup team check out "Best in the Game" by Dave Molinari. That team went through some serious adversity.

1000% agree with this. In late 1991, Badger Bob passed away. The team was sold and they limped into the playoffs (if I recall). The 1992 video "Against the Odds" highlighted these issues. It was an incredible time. They faced the team I truly dreaded, the Blackhawks, in the SC Final. And they went through them like a hot knife through butter.

Of course, they did have Chicago's number. During a late season regular game against them, Tocchet had his jaw broken early. He came back in the 3rd with his jaw wired shut and wearing a cage. That's when you knew they would not be stopped.

[Geezer]

Question. If he unloaded JC somehow, does that automatically make him the greatest GM in pens history regardless of any future mistakes?

It would be really hard to top Craig Patrick who, although his later years were not great because if bad moves and a cash-strapped team, pretty much batted a thousand on moves in one calendar year and won a Cup (1990-91) and steered the ship to another Cup through a LOT of adversity in the next year. in 1990-91 he hired the perfect coach, a lengendary director of player personnel, brought in four Hall of Famers, and drafted probably the best European player ever. Also made about three other moves that worked out great. It turned the whole culture of the franchise around from a team that found a way to lose to a potential dynasty. in two years. Dubas is off to a good start for sure. I like what he's done. But he's got a long way to go to top that. If you want a good read about the 92 Cup team check out "Best in the Game" by Dave Molinari. That team went through some serious adversity.

1000% agree with this. In late 1991, Badger Bob passed away. The team was sold and they limped into the playoffs (if I recall). The 1992 video "Against the Odds" highlighted these issues. It was an incredible time. They faced the team I truly dreaded, the Blackhawks, in the SC Final. And they went through them like a hot knife through butter.

Of course, they did have Chicago's number. During a late season regular game against them, Tocchet had his jaw broken early. He came back in the 3rd with his jaw wired shut and wearing a cage. That's when you knew they would not be stopped.

I think Tocchet scored after the broken jaw. It may have bounced off is body and into the goal,

[Pitts]

Question. If he unloaded JC somehow, does that automatically make him the greatest GM in pens history regardless of any future mistakes?

It would be really hard to top Craig Patrick who, although his later years were not great because if bad moves and a cash-strapped team, pretty much batted a thousand on moves in one calendar year and won a Cup (1990-91) and steered the ship to another Cup through a LOT of adversity in the next year. in 1990-91 he hired the perfect coach, a lengendary director of player personnel, brought in four Hall of Famers, and drafted probably the best European player ever. Also made about three other moves that worked out great. It turned the whole culture of the franchise around from a team that found a way to lose to a potential dynasty. in two years. Dubas is off to a good start for sure. I like what he's done. But he's got a long way to go to top that. If you want a good read about the 92 Cup team check out "Best in the Game" by Dave Molinari. That team went through some serious adversity.

1000% agree with this. In late 1991, Badger Bob passed away. The team was sold and they limped into the playoffs (if I recall). The 1992 video "Against the Odds" highlighted these issues. It was an incredible time. They faced the team I truly dreaded, the Blackhawks, in the SC Final. And they went through them like a hot knife through butter.

Of course, they did have Chicago's number. During a late season regular game against them, Tocchet had his jaw broken early. He came back in the 3rd with his jaw wired shut and wearing a cage. That's when you knew they would not be stopped.

I think Tocchet scored after the broken jaw. It may have bounced off is body and into the goal,

I swear he also fought with that broken jaw. He was simply a beast of a player!

[KG]

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Don't know how to post pics, but EK is in the house! well the locker room anyway...

Looks like Spezza met up with him and welcomed him to town.

[Puck-Lurker]

Don't know how to post pics, but EK is in the house! well the locker room anyway...

Looks like Spezza met up with him and welcomed him to town.

Here to help

[KBone]

Great to see EK in the Pens LR!

Looks like they remodeled the locker room a bit... That yellow band is where they had the honored franchise members.

Unless this is practice facility and its a bit different.

[penny lane]

Don't know how to post pics, but EK is in the house! well the locker room anyway...

Looks like Spezza met up with him and welcomed him to town.

That's a brave new world ~ having Jason Spezza welcome anyone to Pittsburgh. All good.

[blurryhaze312]

So, I'm no Jesse Marshall, or anyone else that is able to break down film really well, but, I decided to go back and look at a couple of Sharks games to take a look at the "downside" of Karlsson, his defense.

I chose 5 games to review game highlights for SJ, and I chose these 5 games because Karlsson was a -3 in all 5 games. All 5 games are linked below if anyone wants to take a look at them.

--10-15-22 against Chicago,

Spoiler:

--12-31-22 against Dallas

Spoiler:

--2-9-23 against Florida

Spoiler:

--4-8-23 against Edmonton

Spoiler:

--4-13-23 against Edmonton

1) In the Chicago game, I didn't notice Karlsson being blatantly bad defending on the goals he was on for. 2 of them were SHG by...gasp...Sam Lafferty. Karlsson was either left alone, or just scrambled defense by SJ altogether because of the shorty chance. Another one, Karlsson got turned around at his own blueline because his teammates gave the puck away. The 4th one, he backoff the player coming down the slot and tried to stick block the shot or breakup the pass, but instead the player just...scored. Nothing in this game I saw where I was like "Wow, that IS really bad defending."

2) First goal against with EK on the ice, he had his man but was late to tie up his stick. He had a bad giveaway that led to a failed 2-1...last Stars player essentially had an open net but puck bounced over stick. Two Sharks forwards made consecutive turnovers at the red line on the PP leading to a SHG against; Karlsson was waiting for a pass at the red line with his other teammates. ENG led to his 3rd minus.

3) First minus against, EK makes a good play at the red line to force the puck back into Florida zone. Florida gets it up quickly to Reinhart, who has a 2-2 with EK slightly trailing, BUT, the other defenseman Harrington (yeah, the former Penguin) turns to cheat towards the other Florida forward, already covered by the other SJ forward. EK is able to get a half-stick check from behind on Reinhart, but Reinhart snaps a shot that beats the goalie. Poor play by Harrington, poor goaltending...Karlsson had help back, they just played it very poorly all around. 2nd minus, bad luck not bad positioning...puck just eludes EK at the red line along the boards...he beats FLA forward to the puck but can only get a weak clear attempt off the boards. SJ had numbers back 3 vs 2, but again, Harrington decides to overload 2 on 1 with EK, completely ignoring that there are 2 more FL forwards about to enter the zone. When EK can't clear, FL passes right to the open late man that Burroughs should have been covering. Harrington completely focuses on the trailer he should have been covering from the outset, yet totally ignores that he is also closest to the man he attempted to overload. Trailer passes back to him all alone for redirect goal. Final minus was a bad giveaway by EK on a PP with the goalie pulled at the end of the game that led to ENG.

4) First minus, EDM is flying, McDavid beats EK to the net but pushes shot wide. SJ looked like Penguins defense, completely losing track of who is covering who, and an Oiler is wide open where EK just was. Technically, EK's man was McDavid and someone else should have picked up the trailer that got a wide open goal to score on. 2nd minus, giveaway by EK on the PP at the top of the circles leads to 3-1 breakaway SHG by EDM. 3rd minus, 5-1 game late in the 3rd, EK has his man Kane at the blue line, but other d-man gets beat by McDavid 40 feet from EK for breakaway goal.

5) First minus, EK establishes good position at low side of faceoff circle, but overcommits and gets walked by Matias Janmark, leading to the goal. Poor play by EK there. 2nd minus, SHG breakaway by EDM...EK got a piece on the below the goal outlet pass by EDM, but not enough to break up the play. Not his fault. 3rd minus, Evander Kane slips into a soft spot. EK was there but technically not his man. Kane responsibility more on forward and other d-man who let him drift into the slot, and other d-man appeared to have been clipped in the face and was out of sync.

Overall, there were very few goals against in the series above where Karlsson was truly at fault with poor defense. One or two. Another one or two giveaways. The rest, I really thought were just horrible coverage by his teammates. Harrington had blinders on half the time with no awareness of anything he wasn't directly looking at in that split second.

The other thing I noticed...man, would I have loved to have found a way to get Barbanov in the EK deal. Maybe we can go after him at the trade deadline. In the goals for SJ in these 5 games, there were a lot of hookups between EK and Barbanov, and Barbanov was very noticeable most games.

I got in a back and forth exchange on the Pens reddit the other day...

I think most people look at +/- see his admittedly historically terrible stat line, say he's bad at defense and call it a day. It's lazy, in my opinion.

I dug into player +/- for every player on his teams each season he's had a bad negative stat line. In those seasons in OTT & SJ the individuals on the entire team were equally or MUCH worse negative. The other 5 some seasons of his career where his teams weren't absolutely putrid his stat is at about league average for a player. Only two of his worst +/- seasons was he the worst negative on the team, the rest he shockingly wasn't even close to the worst.

I repeat: he shockingly, more often than not, wasn't even remotely close to the worst negative on his team in any given season. His teams have generally been absolute dog crap, and his +/- have taken a beating because of it; is created a shallow narrative that's not really rooted in reality.

Let's see what the guy can do. I'm excited to watch!

Links to player stats per team, per season, just need to change the season date on the pages.

https://www.nhl.com/senators/stats/2017 ... skaters/pm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.nhl.com/sharks/stats/2019-2 ... skaters/pm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[murphydump55]

Again, you mean plus minus is a poor indicator of play and a misleading, terribly useless, stat? Who knew??

[blurryhaze312]

Again, you mean plus minus is a poor indicator of play and a misleading, terribly useless, stat? Who knew??

Not according to this guy it wasn't. Every single negative EK was personally responsible for.

[Three Stars]

Speaking of astonishing stats, the JFresh chart for potential EK partner Marcus Pettersson is a thing of WAR beauty. 96% overall, 97% defensive WAR, 98% PK WAR. The only things that are bad are goals and finishing. Whatever defensive issues the team had last season, Pettersson wasn’t one of them.

[Pitts]

Speaking of astonishing stats, the JFresh chart for potential EK partner Marcus Pettersson is a thing of WAR beauty. 96% overall, 97% defensive WAR, 98% PK WAR. The only things that are bad are goals and finishing. Whatever defensive issues the team had last season, Pettersson wasn’t one of them.

I think many need to understand this when they say trade him, he is too expensive. He is our best and most effective defender. As such, he makes the offense better by letting his partner go and do their thing. He's the new Brian Dumoulin.

[FLPensFan]

Karlsson about to speak to the media in a few minutes (supposed to start at 2:30; still waiting for start at 2:45). Live stream on Penguins Youtube channel here:




Here's a small tease per Penguins twitter of his arrival at the practice facility the other day:

https://twitter.com/penguins/status/1689324007005331464

[Three Stars]

Karlsson about to speak to the media in a few minutes (supposed to start at 2:30; still waiting for start at 2:45). Live stream on Penguins Youtube channel here:




Here's a small tease per Penguins twitter of his arrival at the practice facility the other day:

https://twitter.com/penguins/status/1689324007005331464

Karlsson is already -27 on the season. That's 27 minutes of dead air before the Youtube link above actually contained a hockey player.

[penny lane]

Josh Yohe
@JoshYohe_PGH
·
31m
Karlsson just commented that he didn’t know how “hilly” Pittsburgh is and that he finds it to be green and beautiful here. He’s one of us already.

[Three Stars]

I now can't not see Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean when looking at EK. He needs to bring back the Ottawa mullet and pirate beard/mustache combo.