Official GDT: Pens vs Canes 3/26/24

[Sigwolf]

"Serious bid"... i.e. he was looking for a long term, 10+ million a season offer. That was never going to come from this team, and he knew that from the start. 'Wanting to stay' is lip-service, he wanted to get paid top dollar. There's nothing wrong with that, but this team could not even approach that. He was never unwanted, nor forced off of this team. He had every opportunity to stay. Trying to play the victim card of wanting to stay does him no favors.

[DelPen]

Jake sounds kind of like a whiny little ***** tonight.

[KG]

The kids looked great. Fun to see their energy. That said, the only reason they were in the lineup was because Harkins, Acciari, Carter are all hurt.

DK said on his podcast this morning that Sullivan doesn’t want to play them but is left no choice due to injuries.

Sullivan has clearly forgotten where he came from and where his early success stemmed from.

I never want to see Harkins or Carter play again on the Pens. The fact that Harkins played however many games with zero production is asinine.

I don’t get what Sullivan/Dubas are so afraid of. An old team needs young legs around them, not more old legs.

[mariojr]

Did a quick check at the standings. The Pens are currently in the absolute worst position as far as drafting is concerned. If the season ended today, they would pick 10th. That's the lowest pick they can keep while sending next year's first round pick to San Jose. At 72 points, with two teams at 71, and the next team at 66, it's unlikely they draft higher than 8th.

Since I think there's a good chance they are worse next year (no Guentzel for an entire year, aging core players with NMCs, unwillingness to fire Sullivan, continuing to give substantial ice time to marginal players like Harkins, Nieto, and Acciari, no improvement in goaltending), I would rather finish out of the top 10 draft picks and send SJ this year's pick. So therefore, I've changed my mind about how I want the finish to go. I want them to finish as strong as possible and catch the Sabres (73 pts), the Islanders (75 pts) or even the Devils (76 pts), ensuring that neither of the current 71 pt teams catches them, and finish 11th or further from the bottom. It also just feels better to root for them to win rather than doing the reverse for strategic reasons.

[stonewizard51]

He's not coming back....

His intention was to stay through the end of this season. Then his intention was to go to the highest bidder. The right move was made.

If his true intention was to stay with this team after this season, he would have worked out an extension. There was no indication that management did not want him. It was clear he wanted to test free agency. You can't make that decision and then whine about wanting to stay after the fact.

Some additional info from Matt Vensel's article:

But then Guentzel went down with an injury and the Penguins entered into their freefall. He was clinging to hope that Kyle Dubas might make a serious bid to sign him to a contract extension. Then the team fell apart in Western Canada. Soon, Dubas signaled that Guentzel would likely be dealt before the deadline.

“My intention was to stay,” Guentzel said. “But they just thought there was a better direction to go, a different way. It’s out of my hands. It’s not my choice.”

AND THEN....

“It’s been unbelievable so far,” he said. “Guys are great. They welcomed me in pretty easily. It’s been a little bit of an adjustment, but it’s been good so far.”

Good enough that he nervously laughed off a question about whether he would consider re-signing in Pittsburgh this summer, when he reaches free agency.

“I don’t know. We’ll see how this year goes,” he said. “I really like it in Carolina.”

So I take it that's a no. LOL

[FLPensFan]

Did a quick check at the standings. The Pens are currently in the absolute worst position as far as drafting is concerned. If the season ended today, they would pick 10th. That's the lowest pick they can keep while sending next year's first round pick to San Jose. At 72 points, with two teams at 71, and the next team at 66, it's unlikely they draft higher than 8th.

Since I think there's a good chance they are worse next year (no Guentzel for an entire year, aging core players with NMCs, unwillingness to fire Sullivan, continuing to give substantial ice time to marginal players like Harkins, Nieto, and Acciari, no improvement in goaltending), I would rather finish out of the top 10 draft picks and send SJ this year's pick. So therefore, I've changed my mind about how I want the finish to go. I want them to finish as strong as possible and catch the Sabres (73 pts), the Islanders (75 pts) or even the Devils (76 pts), ensuring that neither of the current 71 pt teams catches them, and finish 11th or further from the bottom. It also just feels better to root for them to win rather than doing the reverse for strategic reasons.

Big risk there, gambling on being worse. In theory, they should be worse. They should start moving off pieces and going with younger guys. But is Dubas going to cave to the "but Sid...we haz to dooz it for Sid" crowd and try and load up this summer, rework the team into something better for next season?

If he does, then we likely aren't worse.

[Three Stars]

The kids looked great. Fun to see their energy. That said, the only reason they were in the lineup was because Harkins, Acciari, Carter are all hurt.

DK said on his podcast this morning that Sullivan doesn’t want to play them but is left no choice due to injuries.

Sullivan has clearly forgotten where he came from and where his early success stemmed from.

I never want to see Harkins or Carter play again on the Pens. The fact that Harkins played however many games with zero production is asinine.

I don’t get what Sullivan/Dubas are so afraid of. An old team needs young legs around them, not more old legs.

Dejan fancies himself a man of the people, and what he says/writes makes a lot more sense when you think of him that way.

[FLPensFan]

Kingerski is such a dufus most times. About an hour before faceoff, he was clamoring that "Carter should be in the lineup. These could be his last 10 games ever. That's more important."

[Three Stars]

Kingerski is such a dufus most times. About an hour before faceoff, he was clamoring that "Carter should be in the lineup. These could be his last 10 games ever. That's more important."

So basically we’re in damned if you do, damned if you don’t territory. You want the team to lose so they get a better draft pick, but you want them to lose while playing the players that might make them better, which might make them not lose, which will ruin their draft pick. You demand that the young players be treated with respect and be given opportunities that they didn’t necessarily earn, but treating veterans with respect is only acceptable when it’s players we currently like, even though a reputation for disrespecting veterans will hurt the team in the long run.

[FLPensFan]

Just a bit more info on the Jake stuff. This is from a fan Twitter account, but it also came out BEFORE the game last night and before Guentzel spoke to the media. From the fan:

--Had heard from sources that Jake's agent essentially froze out the Penguins after they were only lukewarm on doing an extension last summer.
--Jake's dad isn't happy about how things played out: EDIT, sorry, Guentzel's dad has his tweets locked (not sure how I am in the inner circle to be able to see them), but Guentzel's dad flamed the Penguins Jesus account for saying Jake was just looking for a big payday. Mike Guentzel reposted it and said time to mute the clueless.
--Jake reportedly was willing to take a reasonable AAV, but he wanted 8 years. Penguins wanted a shorter term, and that was a non-starter. Things never got that far because of that.
--That falling out made the rounds in NHL circles, which is why everyone in national media was pumping a Jake trade all season long.

Nothing's happened yet, but, if there was some truth to this, that Jake wasn't necessarily happy with the way the team or his agent Ben Hankinson handled things...maybe we see Jake announce a new agent ahead of free agency.

[pens_CT]

Just a bit more info on the Jake stuff. This is from a fan Twitter account, but it also came out BEFORE the game last night and before Guentzel spoke to the media. From the fan:

--Had heard from sources that Jake's agent essentially froze out the Penguins after they were only lukewarm on doing an extension last summer.
--Jake's dad isn't happy about how things played out: EDIT, sorry, Guentzel's dad has his tweets locked (not sure how I am in the inner circle to be able to see them), but Guentzel's dad flamed the Penguins Jesus account for saying Jake was just looking for a big payday. Mike Guentzel reposted it and said time to mute the clueless.
--Jake reportedly was willing to take a reasonable AAV, but he wanted 8 years. Penguins wanted a shorter term, and that was a non-starter. Things never got that far because of that.
--That falling out made the rounds in NHL circles, which is why everyone in national media was pumping a Jake trade all season long.

Nothing's happened yet, but, if there was some truth to this, that Jake wasn't necessarily happy with the way the team or his agent Ben Hankinson handled things...maybe we see Jake announce a new agent ahead of free agency.

If I was Dubas, I wouldn't have given Jake an eight year deal. Based on his lack of size, and how he plays and gets abused, I doubt he will survive for eight more years.

[Puck-Lurker]

Just a bit more info on the Jake stuff. This is from a fan Twitter account, but it also came out BEFORE the game last night and before Guentzel spoke to the media. From the fan:

--Had heard from sources that Jake's agent essentially froze out the Penguins after they were only lukewarm on doing an extension last summer.
--Jake's dad isn't happy about how things played out: EDIT, sorry, Guentzel's dad has his tweets locked (not sure how I am in the inner circle to be able to see them), but Guentzel's dad flamed the Penguins Jesus account for saying Jake was just looking for a big payday. Mike Guentzel reposted it and said time to mute the clueless.
--Jake reportedly was willing to take a reasonable AAV, but he wanted 8 years. Penguins wanted a shorter term, and that was a non-starter. Things never got that far because of that.
--That falling out made the rounds in NHL circles, which is why everyone in national media was pumping a Jake trade all season long.

Nothing's happened yet, but, if there was some truth to this, that Jake wasn't necessarily happy with the way the team or his agent Ben Hankinson handled things...maybe we see Jake announce a new agent ahead of free agency.

Jake is 29. With an 8-year deal on any team, that deal ends at age 37. I don't think any team in their right mind should take him up on that. If Guentzel wants to stay, he is wanted of course. But not at every price and term and he knows. If the issue is his agent dealing in a way Guentzel doesn't like -- that's on Guentzel. There are other agents out there and it's not that hard to give an agent instructions on what you want.

My read on it, Pens figured it would mean a lot of cap space and term to keep Guentzel, so they took a wait and see approach. If it's unlikely you'll be able to afford the money and/or term on something you want - you might not be very invested in trying to get it. Season went to sh** and he was sent off as a rental. Fair enough

Jake's agent stopping talks of an extension early on tracks with what Dubas has said during the season, I will say.

[FLPensFan]

Just a bit more info on the Jake stuff. This is from a fan Twitter account, but it also came out BEFORE the game last night and before Guentzel spoke to the media. From the fan:

--Had heard from sources that Jake's agent essentially froze out the Penguins after they were only lukewarm on doing an extension last summer.
--Jake's dad isn't happy about how things played out: EDIT, sorry, Guentzel's dad has his tweets locked (not sure how I am in the inner circle to be able to see them), but Guentzel's dad flamed the Penguins Jesus account for saying Jake was just looking for a big payday. Mike Guentzel reposted it and said time to mute the clueless.
--Jake reportedly was willing to take a reasonable AAV, but he wanted 8 years. Penguins wanted a shorter term, and that was a non-starter. Things never got that far because of that.
--That falling out made the rounds in NHL circles, which is why everyone in national media was pumping a Jake trade all season long.

Nothing's happened yet, but, if there was some truth to this, that Jake wasn't necessarily happy with the way the team or his agent Ben Hankinson handled things...maybe we see Jake announce a new agent ahead of free agency.

Jake is 29. With an 8-year deal on any team, that deal ends at age 37. I don't think any team in their right mind should take him up on that. If Guentzel wants to stay, he is wanted of course. But not at every price and term and he knows. If the issue is his agent dealing in a way Guentzel doesn't like -- that's on Guentzel. There are other agents out there and it's not that hard to give an agent instructions on what you want.

My read on it, Pens figured it would mean a lot of cap space and term to keep Guentzel, so they took a wait and see approach. If it's unlikely you'll be able to afford the money and/or term on something you want - you might not be very invested in trying to get it. Season went to sh** and he was sent off as a rental. Fair enough

Jake's agent stopping talks of an extension early on tracks with what Dubas has said during the season, I will say.

Things would be much different if the rest of the core was also 30 and not 35. Things also might be different if this team didn't have a 12 plus players locked in with NMCs and NTCs.

But an 8 year deal, even on team friendly AAV just doesn't make sense for where this team is today, or where they will be next year and the year after.

[pens_CT]

Just a bit more info on the Jake stuff. This is from a fan Twitter account, but it also came out BEFORE the game last night and before Guentzel spoke to the media. From the fan:

--Had heard from sources that Jake's agent essentially froze out the Penguins after they were only lukewarm on doing an extension last summer.
--Jake's dad isn't happy about how things played out: EDIT, sorry, Guentzel's dad has his tweets locked (not sure how I am in the inner circle to be able to see them), but Guentzel's dad flamed the Penguins Jesus account for saying Jake was just looking for a big payday. Mike Guentzel reposted it and said time to mute the clueless.
--Jake reportedly was willing to take a reasonable AAV, but he wanted 8 years. Penguins wanted a shorter term, and that was a non-starter. Things never got that far because of that.
--That falling out made the rounds in NHL circles, which is why everyone in national media was pumping a Jake trade all season long.

Nothing's happened yet, but, if there was some truth to this, that Jake wasn't necessarily happy with the way the team or his agent Ben Hankinson handled things...maybe we see Jake announce a new agent ahead of free agency.

If I was Dubas, I wouldn't have given Jake an eight year deal. Based on his lack of size, and how he plays and gets abused, I doubt he will survive for eight more years.

[Guinness]

Just a bit more info on the Jake stuff. This is from a fan Twitter account, but it also came out BEFORE the game last night and before Guentzel spoke to the media. From the fan:

--Had heard from sources that Jake's agent essentially froze out the Penguins after they were only lukewarm on doing an extension last summer.
--Jake's dad isn't happy about how things played out: EDIT, sorry, Guentzel's dad has his tweets locked (not sure how I am in the inner circle to be able to see them), but Guentzel's dad flamed the Penguins Jesus account for saying Jake was just looking for a big payday. Mike Guentzel reposted it and said time to mute the clueless.
--Jake reportedly was willing to take a reasonable AAV, but he wanted 8 years. Penguins wanted a shorter term, and that was a non-starter. Things never got that far because of that.
--That falling out made the rounds in NHL circles, which is why everyone in national media was pumping a Jake trade all season long.

Nothing's happened yet, but, if there was some truth to this, that Jake wasn't necessarily happy with the way the team or his agent Ben Hankinson handled things...maybe we see Jake announce a new agent ahead of free agency.

If I was Dubas, I wouldn't have given Jake an eight year deal. Based on his lack of size, and how he plays and gets abused, I doubt he will survive for eight more years.

I'd give him 8 years at a "team friendly" AAV and a limited NMC that ends entirely after year 4... or 5 depending on how team friendly the AAV would be. I'd say 8.5, maybe even 9 depending on the limited NMC - the fewer the teams on the list, the more I'd be willing to pay him.

[lemieuxReturns]

I am happy with the way it turned out. Jake was an amazing player for the organization. We won cups with him and now we received some young players for him. Dubas has a hard job. What he did was required for the rebuild.

[Weegie]

Did a quick check at the standings. The Pens are currently in the absolute worst position as far as drafting is concerned. If the season ended today, they would pick 10th. That's the lowest pick they can keep while sending next year's first round pick to San Jose. At 72 points, with two teams at 71, and the next team at 66, it's unlikely they draft higher than 8th.

Since I think there's a good chance they are worse next year (no Guentzel for an entire year, aging core players with NMCs, unwillingness to fire Sullivan, continuing to give substantial ice time to marginal players like Harkins, Nieto, and Acciari, no improvement in goaltending), I would rather finish out of the top 10 draft picks and send SJ this year's pick. So therefore, I've changed my mind about how I want the finish to go. I want them to finish as strong as possible and catch the Sabres (73 pts), the Islanders (75 pts) or even the Devils (76 pts), ensuring that neither of the current 71 pt teams catches them, and finish 11th or further from the bottom. It also just feels better to root for them to win rather than doing the reverse for strategic reasons.

I'd beg to differ on the goaltending, while at times it has been a bit rocky overall I saw improvement, and many times the goalies held them in games and even in some losses played very well.